DUST Search - Changes to heavies

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:

Tectonious Falcon wrote:

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:

please tell me what makes a heavy soooo much better than other classes? I mean really...

Heavies are slow, turn slow, reload even slower, cant jump which limits a lot of things, especially grenade range. Their overall effective killing distance is severely limited early on, and takes a mountain of SP to be effective at any formidable range.

Lots of bullets, most of which spray all over the place. No equipment, and are particularly vulnerable in open space.

People **** and moan about heavies cause people get up in their face and get sauced and instead of trying to figure out an effective way to attack a heavy, they simply cry OP and try to get them nerfed.

I am a dedicated heavy, and most would probably say one of the better ones out there, but I know both the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and as much as i love the strengths, the weaknesses are equally frustrating.

Take a look at the slots on a heavy suit, they are much more limited than any other class.

I'm a dedicated heavy too, what's your point? You think just because you run the class means your opinion is more valid than mine, even though I've been doing this for a very long time?

Edit: are you guys even reading the OP? I'm saying make heavies need teamwork to win the team oriented game modes, but when it's something like ambush where it's pretty much every man for himself heavies would dominate with faster armour repair rate as well as taking less damage (better passive resists)

This is NOT a nerf, this is a tweak and something that CCP should do more often instead of making things utterly useless. But hey, I guess some of us are to stupid and lazy to read the entire post, so assume I'm crying OP and asking for a nerf.

my point is heavies are good the way they currently are.. there is a good balance between the positives and negatives. And you should know damn well that nothing in this game simply gets 'tweaked'


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Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 13:49:00 - [1] - Quote I've seen quite a few threads about balancing heavies lately, and so I just wanted to put a few ideas that I come up with in this thread. These aren't all going to be good suggestions, I just want some feedback from you guys on what you think of the ideas, as well as some feedback from non-heavies. In planetside 2, Max units are the equivalent of heavies (in my opinion). They have lots of ehp as well as dps. As you can imagine they are hard to kill. A tactic used in planetside 2 is a Max crash, which basically means spam Max units until the people are dead. To balance this out, Max's have to be healed by an engineer rather than a medic (doesn't really apply to DUST, though may change), they are expensive (already in DUST), can't use vehicles ( not sure if they can use transports, but heavies should be able to use most vehicles as a passenger at least.), and they can't hack objectives. To help balance out the heavy spam tactics in DUST, I think it would work making heavies unable to hack objectives as this would force us to use teamwork more often. Although since this prevents us from hacking things we need a slight buff to our new, completely combat oriented role. Self armour repairers should be 50% more effective on heavies, remote armour reppers should be 25% more effective and a slight buff to passive resistances.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 14:07:00 - [2] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: Hm... and this says man that never come down from the hill... Who then will be hack? or fight in CQ? Maybe we just do diferent thing? Give heavies plenty of CPU/PG, hack bonus and better tanking? They are so slow, no eq, no slots, no jumping, hit box like truck and this can be compensate for this. And when they arrive.. they do things for sure. What I'm saying is, buff heavies to be very good in combat, but remove the ability to hack objectives meaning you -need- to work as a team and not just spam heavies everywhere. "maybe we just do a different thing" kind of the point of this post, rather than being part of the group that hacks things, heavies are the guys that only kill other people. Slightly altered role. "who will then hack?" the res of your team, this change is being suggested to make this into a more team oriented game. Heavies will still be pwn mobiles but they can't win a game on their own. "who will fight in CQ" us obviously. Heavies will have better armour repair rates and slightly better passive resist, I don't see how this would make us less effective in CQC- in actual fact we would be more effective.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 14:11:00 - [3] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: please tell me what makes a heavy soooo much better than other classes? I mean really... Heavies are slow, turn slow, reload even slower, cant jump which limits a lot of things, especially grenade range. Their overall effective killing distance is severely limited early on, and takes a mountain of SP to be effective at any formidable range. Lots of bullets, most of which spray all over the place. No equipment, and are particularly vulnerable in open space. People **** and moan about heavies cause people get up in their face and get sauced and instead of trying to figure out an effective way to attack a heavy, they simply cry OP and try to get them nerfed. I am a dedicated heavy, and most would probably say one of the better ones out there, but I know both the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and as much as i love the strengths, the weaknesses are equally frustrating. Take a look at the slots on a heavy suit, they are much more limited than any other class. I'm a dedicated heavy too, what's your point? You think just because you run the class means your opinion is more valid than mine, even though I've been doing this for a very long time? Edit: are you guys even reading the OP? I'm saying make heavies need teamwork to win the team oriented game modes, but when it's something like ambush where it's pretty much every man for himself heavies would dominate with faster armour repair rate as well as taking less damage (better passive resists) This is NOT a nerf, this is a tweak and something that CCP should do more often instead of making things utterly useless. But hey, I guess some of us are to stupid and lazy to read the entire post, so assume I'm crying OP and asking for a nerf.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 14:22:00 - [4] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: please tell me what makes a heavy soooo much better than other classes? I mean really... Heavies are slow, turn slow, reload even slower, cant jump which limits a lot of things, especially grenade range. Their overall effective killing distance is severely limited early on, and takes a mountain of SP to be effective at any formidable range. Lots of bullets, most of which spray all over the place. No equipment, and are particularly vulnerable in open space. People **** and moan about heavies cause people get up in their face and get sauced and instead of trying to figure out an effective way to attack a heavy, they simply cry OP and try to get them nerfed. I am a dedicated heavy, and most would probably say one of the better ones out there, but I know both the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and as much as i love the strengths, the weaknesses are equally frustrating. Take a look at the slots on a heavy suit, they are much more limited than any other class. I agree with this guy. Heavies need something. Atm, the only thing heavies can do better than any other suit is use heavy weapons. Some people will say heavies can take damage better than other suits. Yes they can, but other suits can avoid damage. Heavies cant. This is why I have stopped using heavies. Did you read the OP? That's why I said- better armour rep rate (much higher than any other suit) from both remote reps as well as self reps and reduced damage from weapons. If your telling me that you think this wouldn't boost a heavies combat effectiveness then your crazy. Less damage AND you recover from damage faster? sounds like a bloody good deal to me. And the ONLY trade off is having to work as a team, to prevent as much heavy spam. Sure you can use our disadvantages against us, but guess what? When we run assault HMG squads we are basically invinicbe and can easily turn the tide of any game. This tweak would still let us do the same thing but in a slightly different t way.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 14:26:00 - [5] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: Tectonious Falcon wrote: CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: please tell me what makes a heavy soooo much better than other classes? I mean really... Heavies are slow, turn slow, reload even slower, cant jump which limits a lot of things, especially grenade range. Their overall effective killing distance is severely limited early on, and takes a mountain of SP to be effective at any formidable range. Lots of bullets, most of which spray all over the place. No equipment, and are particularly vulnerable in open space. People **** and moan about heavies cause people get up in their face and get sauced and instead of trying to figure out an effective way to attack a heavy, they simply cry OP and try to get them nerfed. I am a dedicated heavy, and most would probably say one of the better ones out there, but I know both the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and as much as i love the strengths, the weaknesses are equally frustrating. Take a look at the slots on a heavy suit, they are much more limited than any other class. I'm a dedicated heavy too, what's your point? You think just because you run the class means your opinion is more valid than mine, even though I've been doing this for a very long time? Edit: are you guys even reading the OP? I'm saying make heavies need teamwork to win the team oriented game modes, but when it's something like ambush where it's pretty much every man for himself heavies would dominate with faster armour repair rate as well as taking less damage (better passive resists) This is NOT a nerf, this is a tweak and something that CCP should do more often instead of making things utterly useless. But hey, I guess some of us are to stupid and lazy to read the entire post, so assume I'm crying OP and asking for a nerf. my point is heavies are good the way they currently are.. there is a good balance between the positives and negatives. And you should know damn well that nothing in this game simply gets 'tweaked' Actually heavies are not balanced right now. If you have read one of the other threads floating around now, you can see that if people spam heavies things can go wrong. This is to help balance the fact that a team of heavies can kill everyone and hack objectives, no matter how good the opposition is. You would be even better at killing things if this tweak happened. Nearly the entire community has been asking CCP to tweak instead of nerf and you should damn well know this.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.15 23:37:00 - [6] - Quote Thank you for your feedback (especially to those of you that actually read the OP). I wasn't asking for a need, so I don't see why people are listing off the disadvantages for a heavy, as I play one. Many people recently have been asking for heavies to get the nerf hammer and I'm simply offering alternate solutions as I don't want that to happen. The change wasn't meant to emulate the max units in PS2. This tweak would in no way change the damage output of heaves, all it would do is increase our survivability by increasing our armour repeair rate from both logistics support (which makes it more appealing) as well as self repairers. It would also increase passive resistance on heavy suits. At the same time people have been saying heavies are UP, but they're not. This was just a suggestion that would both "buff" and "nerf" heavies at the same time. The buff comes without an actually ehp increase, and the Nero comes without actually reducing any numbers. All it is, is a slight changed focus for the heavy unit. This WOULD promote teamwork though. DUST is advertised as a Team oriented game after all. Although, perhaps this would be better as a variant, like Alldin said? Once we get dropsuits that give bonuses to different things, do you think this would make a good one?
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2013.01.16 00:33:00 - [7] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: Take away my hack ability but give me Gatling lasers straight out of Fallout 3 (no ammo reqd). Effective at .5 meters to 2 klicks. Optional cooling pack module in the hidden equipment slot. Seriously, nothing will get hacked for weeks on end. It is nearly impossible to get a Logi Bro in a Instant Battle as it stands. If I don't do it myself most noobs of late cannot figure it out and they don't have an armor rep tool anyway. Much less an open equip slot for it. Try to imagine if the wacky stuff CCP is not talking to anybody about is a Heavy BPO with HMG. And no hacking. A most unbalanced solution. You Sir, are talking crazy talk. Except once this game releases, you won't be playing pub matches anymore? That's the scrub area for the scrubs to play in. Anyone serious will be playing with their corp/alliance. So you're saying you are the only person in every single game you ever that hack objectives? I call BS on that. "heavy BPO with HMG" what does this have to do with anything? Also heavy BPO's are already in the game. Seems like your talking crazy I never once mentioned BPO's Please go into greater depth as to -how- this is unbalanced, otherwise you are no better than those scrubs that cry OP and don't explain why.