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Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2013.01.14 17:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dedicated topic time:
Nobody seems to be very fond of the snipers and boosters who hide in the redzone to farm WP with minimal risk, but instead of completely eliminating WP gains inside RZ, as some have suggested, they should be knocked down 50%. That way there are still some points available to completely redlined teams (the rage-quitting is bad enough as is), but the snipers and farmers will have an incentive to put some skin in the game for the maximum reward. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
445
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Posted - 2013.01.14 17:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:Dedicated topic time:
Nobody seems to be very fond of the snipers and boosters who hide in the redzone to farm WP with minimal risk, but instead of completely eliminating WP gains inside RZ, as some have suggested, they should be knocked down 50%. That way there are still some points available to completely redlined teams (the rage-quitting is bad enough as is), but the snipers and farmers will have an incentive to put some skin in the game for the maximum reward.
+1 love this idea. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 17:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Still going to cap out afk-ing in the MCC. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
79
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Posted - 2013.01.14 23:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
A good compromise, and a hefty enough restriction to discourage redliners.
+1 |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 23:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
I disagree about penalizing the snipers. They are at least playing the game and can be shot by your snipers. Unlike the AFK farmers who hide behind buildings in the red zone and cannot be shot.
Also I'm not sure if reducing the skill gains of AFK players would reduce the problem, it could aggravate the problem by causing them to go AFK on twice as many matches. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 23:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think a better solution is making a universal redline that everyone must adhere to. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2013.01.14 23:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
The non-snipers who have been redlined are redlined because they've lost the game. They've been pushed back from all spawns and now they're being farmed by the enemy team. The "solution" to the issue of redlining isn't to make the people who've lost and are being farmed now get 50%, or 0%, or any value less WP than they were previously getting. The solution is to make fighting from the red line not something anyone ever has to do.
To that end, first off, when you've lost all objectives the null cannons should go into overdrive and greatly accelerate the damage they do to your MCC. In other words, when you've lost the game by being totally pushed back, you should have either a brief time to salvage the situation and take an objective (and therefore spawn point) beyond your redline, or the game should end. Protracted fighting of people behind the red line should never occur.
Second, sniper rifles are an obviously broken part of Dust and need to be fixed, period, irrespective of redline sniping. People using sniper rifles so far from the fighting that they are shooting from the redline should be essentially ineffective. Sniper rifle shots need to have travel time, bullet drop, and the scope should always be swaying. Snipers shooting from their redline should be so impaired by shooting at extreme ranges due to the aforementioned sniper rifle mechanisms making it very hard to hit distant targets that they simply don't ever do it. Bring snipers in from the 500 m mark, make them an actual part of the fight rather than tiny specks in the distance farming kills, and the issue of redline sniping will be gone. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 00:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Second, sniper rifles are an obviously broken part of Dust and need to be fixed, period, irrespective of redline sniping. People using sniper rifles so far from the fighting that they are shooting from the redline should be essentially ineffective. Sniper rifle shots need to have travel time, bullet drop, and the scope should always be swaying. Snipers shooting from their redline should be so impaired by shooting at extreme ranges due to the aforementioned sniper rifle mechanisms making it very hard to hit distant targets that they simply don't ever do it. Bring snipers in from the 500 m mark, make them an actual part of the fight rather than tiny specks in the distance farming kills, and the issue of redline sniping will be gone.
Or you could respawn as a sniper and kill them yourself. Geez. |
Kovak Therim
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 00:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't worry about enemies that can't take objectives and are nothing more than a pest. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 01:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ghural wrote:Or you could respawn as a sniper and kill them yourself. Geez.
I didn't ask for your opinion on how to kill snipers in the redline, and considering I played the last couple builds as a sniper I don't need your advice at all. But your brain-dead tip doesn't change the fact that sniper rifles are completely broken and requires a significant overhaul to be brought in-line with the other methods of playing Dust. |
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears
47
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Posted - 2013.01.15 01:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:The non-snipers who have been redlined are redlined because they've lost the game. They've been pushed back from all spawns and now they're being farmed by the enemy team. The "solution" to the issue of redlining isn't to make the people who've lost and are being farmed now get 50%, or 0%, or any value less WP than they were previously getting. The solution is to make fighting from the red line not something anyone ever has to do.
To that end, first off, when you've lost all objectives the null cannons should go into overdrive and greatly accelerate the damage they do to your MCC. In other words, when you've lost the game by being totally pushed back, you should have either a brief time to salvage the situation and take an objective (and therefore spawn point) beyond your redline, or the game should end. Protracted fighting of people behind the red line should never occur.
Second, sniper rifles are an obviously broken part of Dust and need to be fixed, period, irrespective of redline sniping. People using sniper rifles so far from the fighting that they are shooting from the redline should be essentially ineffective. Sniper rifle shots need to have travel time, bullet drop, and the scope should always be swaying. Snipers shooting from their redline should be so impaired by shooting at extreme ranges due to the aforementioned sniper rifle mechanisms making it very hard to hit distant targets that they simply don't ever do it. Bring snipers in from the 500 m mark, make them an actual part of the fight rather than tiny specks in the distance farming kills, and the issue of redline sniping will be gone.
I agree that reducing the WP gained from behind the redline is a bad idea. Though I am of the opinion that there should be more spawning options to begin with. If we had a true aerial insertion (rather than LALO jumping from the MCC), people could avoid being redlined in the first place.
I also agree with you that Sniper Rifles are broken, though given what I know of railguns, I'm inclined to say that they are broken due to their short ranges (after all they are handheld railguns). |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.01.15 01:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:Dedicated topic time:
Nobody seems to be very fond of the snipers and boosters who hide in the redzone to farm WP with minimal risk, but instead of completely eliminating WP gains inside RZ, as some have suggested, they should be knocked down 50%. That way there are still some points available to completely redlined teams (the rage-quitting is bad enough as is), but the snipers and farmers will have an incentive to put some skin in the game for the maximum reward.
I still support 100% but I could get behind this idea as well provided that the 50% reduction includes those shooting into the redzone as well as out of it. Otherwise it's just "insult to injury" and you'll certainly get more rage quits and people sitting inactive.
There's simply no compelling reason to reward "redling" (honestly those who've done the math on the current skill system shouldn't be trying to redline anyway but that's getting off topic).
0.02 ISK Cross |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 06:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Once the game becomes about shooting into and out of a redline, it should end, because being redlined and farmed is a ****** experience and not something that CCP should enable people to do.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:I also agree with you that Sniper Rifles are broken, though given what I know of railguns, I'm inclined to say that they are broken due to their short ranges (after all they are handheld railguns).
They're railguns because someone at CCP wrote some fiction in their description that says they're railguns. What they are in sci-fi terms is not important. What's important is the gameplay -- how they're utilized, and the effect that utilization has on the course of a match. To that end, sniper rifles are not in a good place by any means. They are incredibly powerful, and incredibly easy to use. If CCP listens to the honest people around here who care more about Dust being good than pretending they're an amazing player by using a broken weapon and marvelling at their resultant KDR, they'll fix sniper rifles in some way that actually makes them take skill to use relative to their potency. At that point, they can amend the made-up description of their fictional space gun to reflect its new parameters. Then everyone is happy. |
Templar 10
The Southern Legion
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 06:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
it is not a teams fault if they redline the other team and are forced to kill people in the redline the people killing the players in the red line should get double wp and the ones in the red line should get knocked down to 50% beceause why would you as an attacking team stop holding them in there spawn if you have over run them makes the game stupid look we took A B C D and E lets let them take back E A B and C just to redline them again in 2 mins Were is the point in that >>>???
bear in mind this is an answer to the Original Post i couldnt be bothered reading the rest |
1LTNORFLEET
Lost-Legion
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 06:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:Dedicated topic time:
Nobody seems to be very fond of the snipers and boosters who hide in the redzone to farm WP with minimal risk, but instead of completely eliminating WP gains inside RZ, as some have suggested, they should be knocked down 50%. That way there are still some points available to completely redlined teams (the rage-quitting is bad enough as is), but the snipers and farmers will have an incentive to put some skin in the game for the maximum reward. ok so if i red line you and make it impossible to take an objective you get less war point because you killed me once well looks like you get lesser amount of war points hmm seems unfair dontcha think |
1LTNORFLEET
Lost-Legion
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 06:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
at least i have common decency to let them take an objective because there are some faults with the maps aka which side you spawn on |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Ghural wrote:Or you could respawn as a sniper and kill them yourself. Geez. I didn't ask for your opinion on how to kill snipers in the redline, and considering I played the last couple builds as a sniper I don't need your advice at all. But your brain-dead tip doesn't change the fact that sniper rifles are completely broken and requires a significant overhaul to be brought in-line with the other methods of playing Dust.
No, as a person with frequent flyer miles on the dead to sniper airlines I disagree. making the rang shorter is not a solution. Just have CCP give us a pair of binoculars and the ability to call in mortars and artillery in a scout suit. best way to kill a sniper is to saturate his ass with steel rain. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Ghural wrote:Or you could respawn as a sniper and kill them yourself. Geez. I didn't ask for your opinion on how to kill snipers in the redline, and considering I played the last couple builds as a sniper I don't need your advice at all. But your brain-dead tip doesn't change the fact that sniper rifles are completely broken and requires a significant overhaul to be brought in-line with the other methods of playing Dust.
The waaaaaaaah is strong with this one. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
-1
Don't know how to tell you this but, they are not in the Red Zone.
The Defenders have a different Red Zone than the Attackers and they are not in it.
Technically the Reds cannot see the Blues Red Line and vice verse is true as well, if I recall correctly. I can remember them from playing the other side but there is no indication in game.
What you are really asking for, just to help out, is for the Red Lines/Zones to match up. Which makes no sense what so ever.
The Red Lines are balancing attempts by CCP if I was guessing. They are simple to implement, quick to adjust, don't require hours and hours of Level Designer time and are a good idea for map balancing. This gives the Defenders some advantages as well as the Attackers. It can slow up the spawn attacks from the opposing team when they have managed to overwhelm the other side. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
235
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thranx1231 wrote:-1
Don't know how to tell you this but, they are not in the Red Zone.
The Defenders have a different Red Zone than the Attackers and they are not in it.
Technically the Reds cannot see the Blues Red Line and vice verse is true as well, if I recall correctly. I can remember them from playing the other side but there is no indication in game.
What you are really asking for, just to help out, is for the Red Lines/Zones to match up. Which makes no sense what so ever.
The Red Lines are balancing attempts by CCP if I was guessing. They are simple to implement, quick to adjust, don't require hours and hours of Level Designer time and are a good idea for map balancing. This gives the Defenders some advantages as well as the Attackers. It can slow up the spawn attacks from the opposing team when they have managed to overwhelm the other side.
Then make that zone the "blue zone" for that team. so its a red zone for the enemy team blue zone for you. Mercs are paid to win. not spawn sit. thus it makes sense they would not be encourage to sit in the red zone even if they have been pushed back. It gives incentive to push forward. If I was paying mercs and they where all like we cant win this whine whine whine. you bet i would be trying to get their throats slit for losing my lucrative contract. thus game play should reflect that. I think its a good start to dealing with the players who sit in the red zone and never leave. also they could lose isk gains from the match for remaining in the red zone too long. |
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