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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
164
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
This module, on the eve side of the universe, could make the link between dust and eve on boarding player owned ships and stations:
Boarding CRU (ammo) Used by a boarding CRU launcher. Contains 20 clones stored in collision dampening goo and boarding dropsuits.
Speed 100m/s, upon impact creates a hole in the enemy ship hull and inserts clones inside the ship. Requires the boarded vessel to be warp scrambled during the whole boarding mission; dropsuits unadjusted to warp acceleration will deteriorate if the vessel gets in warp.
Contract can be made on capture or sabotage of any vessel containing alliance/corporation/player owned clones. This contract can be accepted from dust side, which will give the clones into possession of mercenaries to kill the hostile pod pilot, after which the mission is deemed successful and the ship will be left unpiloted in space.
Smuggled boarding CRU (item) If this item ends up in a player owned station hangar by any means, the clones inside can be contracted to a mercenary group in order to capture or sabotage the said station.
A station consists of capture points akin to a skirmish mission. The mercenaries can choose to either detonate the points, resulting into station service pop, or to hold the control points simultaneously, resulting into a station flip after the station defense clone count drops to critical.
Note that it's elementary to board back a station in your own territory, but a successful flip will hurt an alliance's deployments for a time period. |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
168
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
As long as we can murder all the EvE pilots I am cool with the idea. Burn down a clone, destroy a destroyer, trade a BPO for millions of ISK. Sounds fun. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Already a number of threads regarding this and they never seem to answer the same prevalent question: Why? It's cool, sure, but it's a major imbalance for the guy who doesn't want to drop $250 on a PS3 solely to be able to defend himself and/or hire some Dust Mercenaries to defend his ship from something he has absolutely no method of direct intervention.
POSes or Stations, sure - why the hell not. I'd be pretty sick to suddenly lose control of a Station because Infantry took it over.
Ships? No. Just no. Unless I can purge your ass with a smart bomb or shoot your CRU thingy down before it gets to me this is a Jesus feature that will cause more problems than benefits reaped. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 12:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Further more, I'd like to add - EVEN IF YOU COULD HIRE DUST MERCS TO DEFEND YOU.....
How long do you honestly think interstellar battles last, exactly..? I mean, two ships go at it in Eve Online and it's over in minutes. The only people who are going to wait for a Dust match to get started up (hiring a defense team, having them come to the rescue, wait timers etc etc) are low-sec pirates with nothing else to do but gate camp or really bored nullbears.
Capital ships are the only things that would last long enough and they're almost never alone - at least not long enough for something of this extent. To which extent, I'm almost positive they'd self-destruct before allowing the chance for the ship to be confiscated. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
164
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Already a number of threads regarding this and they never seem to answer the same prevalent question: Why? It's cool, sure, but it's a major imbalance for the guy who doesn't want to drop $250 on a PS3 solely to be able to defend himself and/or hire some Dust Mercenaries to defend his ship from something he has absolutely no method of direct intervention.
POSes or Stations, sure - why the hell not. I'd be pretty sick to suddenly lose control of a Station because Infantry took it over.
Ships? No. Just no. Unless I can purge your ass with a smart bomb or shoot your CRU thingy down before it gets to me this is a Jesus feature that will cause more problems than benefits reaped.
If your ship is scrambled for the time it takes to board it, you're screwed in the first place. Though now that I think of it, this might obsolete ransoming. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
164
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Further more, I'd like to add - EVEN IF YOU COULD HIRE DUST MERCS TO DEFEND YOU.....
How long do you honestly think interstellar battles last, exactly..? I mean, two ships go at it in Eve Online and it's over in minutes. The only people who are going to wait for a Dust match to get started up (hiring a defense team, having them come to the rescue, wait timers etc etc) are low-sec pirates with nothing else to do but gate camp or really bored nullbears.
Capital ships are the only things that would last long enough and they're almost never alone - at least not long enough for something of this extent. To which extent, I'm almost positive they'd self-destruct before allowing the chance for the ship to be confiscated.
Should have read this before replying to the first :)
You gave some good reasons why it's balanced here, basically what I meant in that first reply. Also, boarding ships is a very piratey thing to do, which is why it would have it's place in the universe. Battles can take as long as the victorious side can afford, with certain timers in place (logoffski still in?). A successful boarding could also scare out the pod pilot wanting to preserve his clone, resulting in a much faster ship bust.
An excellent merc group could be able to run it down before it self destructs, making it a selling point for the organized dusters.
Just to point out, "two ships go at it" relates to a honored 1v1 and well, it's eve... |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
248
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Had my own thread on this. And I still like the idea. +1 |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
164
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Posted - 2013.01.14 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Had my own thread on this. And I still like the idea. +1
That must have been a good thread +1 |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 12:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Further more, I'd like to add - EVEN IF YOU COULD HIRE DUST MERCS TO DEFEND YOU.....
How long do you honestly think interstellar battles last, exactly..? I mean, two ships go at it in Eve Online and it's over in minutes. The only people who are going to wait for a Dust match to get started up (hiring a defense team, having them come to the rescue, wait timers etc etc) are low-sec pirates with nothing else to do but gate camp or really bored nullbears.
Capital ships are the only things that would last long enough and they're almost never alone - at least not long enough for something of this extent. To which extent, I'm almost positive they'd self-destruct before allowing the chance for the ship to be confiscated. Should have read this before replying to the first :) You gave some good reasons why it's balanced here, basically what I meant in that first reply. Also, boarding ships is a very piratey thing to do, which is why it would have it's place in the universe. Battles can take as long as the victorious side can afford, with certain timers in place (logoffski still in?). A successful boarding could also scare out the pod pilot wanting to preserve his clone, resulting in a much faster ship bust. An excellent merc group could be able to run it down before it self destructs, making it a selling point for the organized dusters. Just to point out, "two ships go at it" relates to a honored 1v1 and well, it's eve...
Hrmm... Well, take into account that it would just be easier to tell them to eject and give you the ship - they're going to lose it anyway.. I dunno, still don't like the idea. It's great for pirates but there's just so many damn complications behind it. I'd hate a feature that would allow another player to just take my ship no questions asked.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
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Posted - 2013.01.14 13:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Close doors between section 5 and 3, deck 3. Turn off force field. Watch the CRU eject itself. |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.01.14 13:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Close doors between section 5 and 3, deck 3. Turn off force field. Watch the CRU eject itself.
Actually... Could be plausible, if you made it to where they could control internal systems with the Capacitor power. Neutralizer/Nosferatu could drain it to prevent you from being able to affect the mercenaries' progress. |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
140
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Posted - 2013.01.14 13:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about limiting the amount of ships that can call in OB's, then only make thoose the ones acessable by mercs for the time being?. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Close doors between section 5 and 3, deck 3. Turn off force field. Watch the CRU eject itself. Actually... Could be plausible, if you made it to where they could control internal systems with the Capacitor power. Neutralizer/Nosferatu could drain it to prevent you from being able to affect the mercenaries' progress.
On a capsuleer ship its almost instant. Capsuleer ships do have a larger degree of counter boarding reply than a nomral crewed ship does.
Eve online ships have to deal with these little nasty bugs that eat people known as Rogue Drones. They typically would hack a nomral ship and goto lunch on the poor sob. But capsuleer ships are immune to boarding attempts and hacking attempts because the ship acts as an extension of the body of the pilot. Thus dealing wit the immune system is very unpleasant for anyone not belonging on the crew roster.
Or even worse there are capsuleer ships out there that are deisgned with no crew in mind whatsoever. Namely the tech 3 ships. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 14:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Close doors between section 5 and 3, deck 3. Turn off force field. Watch the CRU eject itself. Actually... Could be plausible, if you made it to where they could control internal systems with the Capacitor power. Neutralizer/Nosferatu could drain it to prevent you from being able to affect the mercenaries' progress. On a capsuleer ship its almost instant. Capsuleer ships do have a larger degree of counter boarding reply than a nomral crewed ship does. Eve online ships have to deal with these little nasty bugs that eat people known as Rogue Drones. They typically would hack a nomral ship and goto lunch on the poor sob. But capsuleer ships are immune to boarding attempts and hacking attempts because the ship acts as an extension of the body of the pilot. Thus dealing wit the immune system is very unpleasant for anyone not belonging on the crew roster. Or even worse there are capsuleer ships out there that are deisgned with no crew in mind whatsoever. Namely the tech 3 ships.
Could hardly imagine an entire Dust contingent trying to take over a Frigate xD |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2013.01.14 15:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think all the boarding ships ideas are dumb, they're just not as fun as getting a war barges killed with supplies traveling from system to system and actually losing them. It makes for not fun gameplay.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines
Since I take it all millitairy personel on spaceships fight to protect them when boarded, these numbers are the Clone limit of the defending side. Good luck with your 20 clone limit.
and the bigger the ships, the more trained the crew is.
Good luck I say
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2013.01.14 15:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Again, no. Ship boarding of player ships is just a bad idea. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 15:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Station Boarding - Yes
Ship Boarding - Hells no.
an installable CRU module to hire mercenaries while going spelunking in a dangerous sleeper base. Sure!!! |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 15:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:I think all the boarding ships ideas are dumb, they're just not as fun as getting a war barges killed with supplies traveling from system to system and actually losing them. It makes for not fun gameplay. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelinesSince I take it all millitairy personel on spaceships fight to protect them when boarded, these numbers are the Clone limit of the defending side. Good luck with your 20 clone limit. and the bigger the ships, the more trained the crew is. Good luck I say
What with the maximum capacity of a Titan (more than likely the Raganarok lol) being upwards of 145,000, that's be one long, difficult fight - even if it were possible. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 15:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Karl Koekwaus wrote:I think all the boarding ships ideas are dumb, they're just not as fun as getting a war barges killed with supplies traveling from system to system and actually losing them. It makes for not fun gameplay. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelinesSince I take it all millitairy personel on spaceships fight to protect them when boarded, these numbers are the Clone limit of the defending side. Good luck with your 20 clone limit. and the bigger the ships, the more trained the crew is. Good luck I say What with the maximum capacity of a Titan (more than likely the Raganarok lol) being upwards of 145,000, that's be one long, difficult fight - even if it were possible.
That's crew only. On board army divisions do not add to ship function and thus are not crew. Last I read something about this subject titans has room for about 145,000 soldiers and all of their equipment and room to install a command and control room. Dropship squadrons and various other nasties.
The much smaller Super Carriers are able to store quite a large number of civilians and the military personnel and equipment required to kidnap them all while highly trained army units tried to defend from that from happening. Up to 200,000 a trip so the titain's number is probably much higher on troop storage. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 17:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Karl Koekwaus wrote:I think all the boarding ships ideas are dumb, they're just not as fun as getting a war barges killed with supplies traveling from system to system and actually losing them. It makes for not fun gameplay. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelinesSince I take it all millitairy personel on spaceships fight to protect them when boarded, these numbers are the Clone limit of the defending side. Good luck with your 20 clone limit. and the bigger the ships, the more trained the crew is. Good luck I say What with the maximum capacity of a Titan (more than likely the Raganarok lol) being upwards of 145,000, that's be one long, difficult fight - even if it were possible. That's crew only. On board army divisions do not add to ship function and thus are not crew. Last I read something about this subject titans has room for about 145,000 soldiers and all of their equipment and room to install a command and control room. Dropship squadrons and various other nasties. The much smaller Super Carriers are able to store quite a large number of civilians and the military personnel and equipment required to kidnap them all while highly trained army units tried to defend from that from happening. Up to 200,000 a trip so the titain's number is probably much higher on troop storage.
That number was maximum capacity. A typical function crew with a capsuleer is like, 4,000 I think. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Well Sansha ships may be highly automated though that is a good point. However Super carriers are rather massive you cant have everyone on board fly down in their dropship squadrons to kidnap people from planets like Detole. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
78
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Posted - 2013.01.14 23:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like the idea about only doing it when the ship is warp scrambled - that way boarding parties won't become OP, and it actually levels out the playing field.
*Scenario*
Ship 1 scrambles Ship 2. Ship 2 thinks it's over, but starts dishing out DPS and activating his tank anyway. Suddenly, Ship 1 fires a boarding party at Ship 2. Ship 2, realising that they want his ship, and therefore won't blow it up, turns off his tank for a full gank in the hopes of breaking the warp scramble and killing the mercs before they kill him.
The beauty of this system, is Ship 2 would die anyway, but funnily enough, the boarding party actually gives the boarded ship more of a fighting chance.
Could be very, very interesting, though needs to be worked on for slower ships and more expensive ones like titans. Again, it always comes back to titans. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 00:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
A ships tank has nothing to do with the ability to shoot. If the ships going down anyways I eject right before it blows up. And if I were in danger of getting boarded I'd pop the self destruct as soon as the boarders landed. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 00:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jackof All-Trades wrote:I like the idea about only doing it when the ship is warp scrambled - that way boarding parties won't become OP, and it actually levels out the playing field.
*Scenario*
Ship 1 scrambles Ship 2. Ship 2 thinks it's over, but starts dishing out DPS and activating his tank anyway. Suddenly, Ship 1 fires a boarding party at Ship 2. Ship 2, realising that they want his ship, and therefore won't blow it up, turns off his tank for a full gank in the hopes of breaking the warp scramble and killing the mercs before they kill him.
The beauty of this system, is Ship 2 would die anyway, but funnily enough, the boarding party actually gives the boarded ship more of a fighting chance.
Could be very, very interesting, though needs to be worked on for slower ships and more expensive ones like titans. Again, it always comes back to titans.
What happens when the ship gets unscrambled? |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 01:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Terrible idea. Cool, but terrible.
1. What's stopping the capsuleer from just initiating the self-destruct mechanic? Suddenly you lose all twenty of your merc clones in two minutes. For your information, Eve ships are given a 2-minute timer once the self-destruct command is given. The only way to cancel it is by jumping through a stargate or docking into a station.
2. It's unfair for the capsuleers who can't defend themselves from the inside as there is currently no mechanic or system in place to manage the capsuleer's crew.
3. You will already be able blow them out of the stars once the skyfire battery is unleashed.
4. Those Eve ships are not cheap. The hull of a Maelstrom battleship alone costs around 200 million ISK. Then there are the modules and ammo to consider. What's the cost of your clone? Not much obviously if you go in with just BPO fits.
5. Eve players abhor the idea very strongly. They are, however, ok with boarding NPC stations and NPC ships (that they don't mind). Just stay away from their player-run ships. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 01:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
let alone network logistics are a nightmare for this one.
The battlefield is moving about, that's an extra large inventory it has to keep track of now as it moves about on the sol node. This alone can significantly increase lag in both games as XYZ of the battle is now tracked as a special container will be needed to drop everyone's gear when or if the ship gets blown up in the attempt. You cant make gear just 'dissapear' like that.
Time Dilation is a counter lag technique used in eve online. While perfectly acceptable in a slower than RTS based like game like eve is. ITS ENTIRELY UNACCEPTABLE in an FPS. |
Gaff Origami
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
49
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Posted - 2013.01.15 01:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the idea of additional game modes that this would present. You could have missions which are time limited (capture control room before self destruct) or clone limited (capture control or eliminate defenders with 64 clone count). I think the interior of a ship or station could make for some fun fire fights and would be pretty simple to construct map-wise. The interiors could even be randomly generated using pre-made interior sections that "snap" together.
I imagine the match making to work similar to corp matches but instead of a corp initiating a contract the contract would be initiated by one pilot firing a boarding party pod into the hull of another ship (or station). This would create a match in which squads (or randoms) depending on the configuration of the pod would have a fixed amount of time to join the battle before the hull is breached. I think even if the matches lasted 5 minutes it could be an intense and fun experience fighting in close quarters and a nice change of pace from the "sprawling" planet-based maps we have now.
Maybe this wouldn't work within the mechanics of Eve but it's an interesting concept in theory. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 01:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Time Dilation is a counter lag technique used in eve online. While perfectly acceptable in a slower than RTS based like game like eve is. ITS ENTIRELY UNACCEPTABLE in an FPS.
And with fleet battles as big as 500-900 per fleet, imagine having to run around the corridors in slow motion. |
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