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Overlord Zero
Doomheim
75
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Posted - 2013.01.11 11:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Note: I'd like to hear replies especially from AV and vehicle players. English Snake? I know you posted in a thread several months ago which brought up this subject, what do you think? Aldin Kan? Exmaple Core? Any of you AV/vehicle players would have interesting views on this, I'm sure.
An idea for down the road from way back when, once the game is released and CCP is just adding new stuff and tweaking gameplay.
Damage zones on vehicles. A zone for each turret, the treads, the main cannon, and one for the hull/chassis body with the turrets with the least protection, then more for the treads, even more for the main cannon, then the most for the hull.
In this way a tank can be crippled but still function and survive the match, as well as adding more WP to be had from tanks and other vehicles.
Tread/tires/thrusters/turrets=lowHP Main cannon=medHP Hull=highHP
This way a HAV/LAV/Dropship without treads/thrusters/tires can be an emplaced weapon, one without guns can be an armored unarmed transport for 3, and a hull with hp left can be used as a temporary bunker to recover health during a firefight. It's not much consolation during that fight, but it would be much better to guard whats left of your vehicle.
This would also allow more customization options for vehicles, letting you choose the treads/tires/thrusters you plan to use and having different turrets with different HP amounts, and potentially even mods to equip on the turrets and treads separately.
Immobilizing it would limit the turn radius of it's turrets and prevent it from turning, allowing swarmers to re-position and aim for the main body or cannon. Or you could add a feature where if the tank treads are crippled and you get on top of the tank you can throw in a grenade, that way swarmers can work together with normal infantry to take out the tanks. This would ALL add more strategy to the battle and satisfy many of the the complaints both AV and tank players have.
The only real downside I can see for this from the tanker side is that tanks would no longer come with turrets equipped since they become a destructible part of the tank.
AV players and tankers are going to be a major chunk of the people using this game, and that means the game needs to cater to their needs as well as everyone elses. Tank commanders want to have a sufficient bang for their buck, and I agree since the needed supplies for a proper tank are both ISK and SP intensive and many people will rely on them for support. But vehicle players want survivability for their vehicles more than anything else, and this would add some level of survivability to vehicles while still allowing AV players to take vehicles out of the battle.
Imagine: Someone pulls out a sagaris in the last 5 minutes of a match. A forge gunner takes out it's main cannon as it's entering the field, but it keeps rolling up the road at full speed to deliver 2 players securely to the objective. The battle ends a few minutes later, the tank is now but an immobile hull after being pounded by forge guns and AV grenades, but the hull is still intact. The tanker hates that he will have to replace those turrets and treads, but is grateful that they were able to save the most expensive part of the tank, the hull and it's mods. The AV players are upset that they couldn't drop the tank, but were glad to get points for chasing the tank and taking off it's appendages.
Yes it would be a major amount of work, but with vehicle imbalance issues abundant, isn't it more important to get it done right than to dread the amount of work it will take in getting there? It needs to be done right and nerfing AV ticks of AV players and nerfing tanks ticks off tank commanders. People will rage quit when they get fed up with a system that works against them in their chosen role, meaning less people playing the game. If we want this game to succeed, then nothing that improves the game for a large portion of the audience is a waste of time.
So, in summary:
- More vehicle customization
- Ability to cripple vehicles
- Vehicle drivers get to keep any parts that survive the match, thereby saving money (if only the hull survives, you keep the tank itself plus it's mods; if the treads die but the main turret is still good, you get to keep the tank and the turret; etc.)
- More utility from vehicles
- Logi unit's would get more point chances by fixing individual vehicle parts
- Vehicles become more strategic tools than potential high risk / potential high reward moving targets
- Requires good aim and skill to take out a vehicle hull instead of hitting the treads/tires/thrusters or turrets, thereby increasing vehicle survivability.
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trollface dot jpg
Destined 4 Biomass
60
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Posted - 2013.03.27 12:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hooray for vehicle alterations! |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
193
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Posted - 2013.03.27 12:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
I doubt it'd see much utility. HAVs aren't that hard to kill as it is. Taking the time to cripple them before destroying them just seems like time wasted. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
381
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Posted - 2013.03.27 13:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I doubt it'd see much utility. HAVs aren't that hard to kill as it is. Taking the time to cripple them before destroying them just seems like time wasted. I imagine you'd get WP for each section of the tank you destroy. That would mean that instead of chasing a tank around all match and not getting any WP for it, you'd get WP for each section of the tank you destroy.
In addition, I think it would work really well if a logi could repair destroyed vehicle parts with some sort of new equipment made specifically for it. This way you could take your tank back to the base (if your treads are intact) and have someone fix it up for you. I also imagine that if you are a good enough shot, you could hit the hull instead of the treads or turret and not have to worry about crippling it first.
Tanks would get more HP overall, AV players would get WP for destroying tank parts, tankers would have more utility from their tanks, looks like wins all the way around.
But I'd put this size of an update off for a year or two, there is far too much work to be done with the core gameplay to mess with this stuff. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3243
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Posted - 2013.03.27 14:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lighter HAVs (assault HAVs if you will) armed with 1 or 2 less small turrets and maybe a medium turret. Move much faster than the MBTs.
Speeders - 1 man hover bikes.
Gunships - 2 man attack ground pounding aircraft, basically flying tanks. Pilot has some guns and gunner has the heavier half of them.
MAVs - APCs armed with pilot controlled medium turret and passengers able to gun with their own guns or small turrets. Built in CRUs and advanced versions have a bastion mode.
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Charlotte O'Dell
PXRXO HOLDINGS
77
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Posted - 2013.03.27 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1 |
Charlotte O'Dell
PXRXO HOLDINGS
77
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Posted - 2013.03.27 14:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lighter HAVs (assault HAVs if you will) armed with 1 or 2 less small turrets and maybe a medium turret. Move much faster than the MBTs.
Speeders - 1 man hover bikes.
Gunships - 2 man attack ground pounding aircraft, basically flying tanks. Pilot has some guns and gunner has the heavier half of them.
MAVs - APCs armed with pilot controlled medium turret and passengers able to gun with their own guns or small turrets. Built in CRUs and advanced versions have a bastion mode.
+1 |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1013
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Posted - 2013.03.27 14:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well since you called
This is pretty much taken from World of Tanks, which im playing atm and i just carried our team with 8 tank kills thus winning the game it was epic and fun, i got damaged several times and did lose tracks and my turret but i had a repair kit so i can repair modules at least
Now in DUST we dont have a repair kit perse just armor reppers which reps damaged armor, we dont have modules either which we can damage out in the field, so would an armor repper repair all modules or would we need a special moduale to rep a damaged part
The tank is ther all to see, you can see the tracks, turrets and hull but the modules are inside the tank so then the turrets themselves would need penatration values to damage mods inside the tank so the hardners get damaged etc which then means we need ammo values so we can change ammo mid battle for each different threat
Plus with the damage that basic AV can dish out proto would break ******* half the stuff in a tank, i would say with this tanks hp would need a big rise
Also the tank itself would be broken up into parts mainly being the turret,hull and tracks so each part can be upgraded using SP so you can unlock the stronger hull or a hull which is weaker but gives a speed bonus but each part would need its own HP and lock on box for swarms
Penatration values wouldnt work, mainly because of how shield works thats only good for armor since armor tends to be plates and a certain thickness
Shields would be hard to deal with, essentially the shield is above the hull everything else on the tank, so when you hit the shield you are not hitting the armor so you cant damage mods on the inside, only way is to make it that if you hit the battery on the back of a shield tank it disables it but then swarms would easy **** the hull no problem so the tank would be killed very easily
Armor on the other hand you rely on your hull and if everything starts to break your ****** even more
With DUST it would require alot of work and time, i dont mind the tracks and turret being damaged i could get behind that but with how big the turrets are anyways it would be easy to damage the turret but if you get to upgrade turrets/tracks and the hull for a certain amount of SP and ISK it would have to give more HP overall so for eaxmple the Suyra hull is 1.2mil and like 3600hp armor but add on tracks that may add like 2000hp armor and the turret maybe 2500 armor so total without mods would be 8100 then add mods and you reach well over 10k in armor, AV would cry hard but how does it work with shield? for me i dont think it would unless each part comes with a shield jenny
Its a mixed bag, it could work but then it could just make tanks even more useless, it works in WOT because its how it worked in WWII, in future HAVs powered by a mini nuclear fusion reactor which if it went up would look like a nuke, or if we have ammo types like nulcear tipped shells then its a mini nuke
I know ive rammbled on bit its how i see it |
Judy Maat
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is gething WAY to complex.. your tank should be either destroyed or not.
and the part about remplacing the turrets but not the chassis B*ch pls restocking is already a nightmare..god help us all |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
no. Maybe you could cripple the treads to make it go slower or limit the turn radius, or damage the turret so it would to less damage or limit the turn speed, but no destroying certain parts. |
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
390
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Well since you called
This is pretty much taken from World of Tanks, which im playing atm and i just carried our team with 8 tank kills thus winning the game it was epic and fun, i got damaged several times and did lose tracks and my turret but i had a repair kit so i can repair modules at least
Now in DUST we dont have a repair kit perse just armor reppers which reps damaged armor, we dont have modules either which we can damage out in the field, so would an armor repper repair all modules or would we need a special moduale to rep a damaged part
The tank is ther all to see, you can see the tracks, turrets and hull but the modules are inside the tank so then the turrets themselves would need penatration values to damage mods inside the tank so the hardners get damaged etc which then means we need ammo values so we can change ammo mid battle for each different threat
Plus with the damage that basic AV can dish out proto would break ******* half the stuff in a tank, i would say with this tanks hp would need a big rise
Also the tank itself would be broken up into parts mainly being the turret,hull and tracks so each part can be upgraded using SP so you can unlock the stronger hull or a hull which is weaker but gives a speed bonus but each part would need its own HP and lock on box for swarms
Penatration values wouldnt work, mainly because of how shield works thats only good for armor since armor tends to be plates and a certain thickness
Shields would be hard to deal with, essentially the shield is above the hull everything else on the tank, so when you hit the shield you are not hitting the armor so you cant damage mods on the inside, only way is to make it that if you hit the battery on the back of a shield tank it disables it but then swarms would easy **** the hull no problem so the tank would be killed very easily
Armor on the other hand you rely on your hull and if everything starts to break your ****** even more
With DUST it would require alot of work and time, i dont mind the tracks and turret being damaged i could get behind that but with how big the turrets are anyways it would be easy to damage the turret but if you get to upgrade turrets/tracks and the hull for a certain amount of SP and ISK it would have to give more HP overall so for eaxmple the Suyra hull is 1.2mil and like 3600hp armor but add on tracks that may add like 2000hp armor and the turret maybe 2500 armor so total without mods would be 8100 then add mods and you reach well over 10k in armor, AV would cry hard but how does it work with shield? for me i dont think it would unless each part comes with a shield jenny
Its a mixed bag, it could work but then it could just make tanks even more useless, it works in WOT because its how it worked in WWII, in future HAVs powered by a mini nuclear fusion reactor which if it went up would look like a nuke, or if we have ammo types like nulcear tipped shells then its a mini nuke
I know ive rammbled on bit its how i see it Well it IS listed as for later on, so the Dev's have plenty of time to mull it over and figure out the if's, when's, why's, what's and how's. It would definitely require a lot of time to figure out the technical bits, but it would be really cool to see. |
Otavio Martins
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.03.27 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe some different armor damage like: Front hull with more armor Side hulls with less armor Rear hull is the weak point |
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