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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

AV is getting way too much buffs:

> Militia forge guns on the market.
> Free forge gun fits.
> A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person)
> Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots.

Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank?

All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance.

Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck.

Actually, I'm not vehicle user. Though I frequently use AV to handle tanks, so your assessment of me is wrong. If you spend over a million for a tank, you should get your money's worth; not something that gets destroyed easily by something completely free.

Back when missiles were overpowered, AV needed to be very strong. Now vehicles are not such a scary offensive force anymore, and AV is still getting easier to the point that you can get a forge gun fit for completely free without any ISK or SP investment. Well built expensive vehicle fits should require teamwork to take down, or else what the hell is the point of dumping all that money into it?

KDR is just a stat, its ISK and SP that matter. Next time come up with a good argument to support your case rather than just making accusations.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.01.11 09:56:00 - [1] - Quote I think I can speak for all vehicle users when I say Screw you CCP, and you put a damage mod on it, ********. Worst decision so far.
Integral Zan IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 46	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:00:00 - [2] - Quote I don't use vehicle to much and I have to say, it's an awkward decision when militia swarms already accomplish the initial AV role.
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:18:00 - [3] - Quote i think its as bad as giving people militia tanks so you can jump in a tank from the get go, been in alot of ambush maps where there is 2 or 3 tanks already.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:21:00 - [4] - Quote you don't get given a militia tank you have to pay for it
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:24:00 - [5] - Quote sorry bad wording on my part, i mean you can jump straight in to a tank before people have the chance to skill up for good AV so without these people will run amock with tanks, well they are already
Integral Zan IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 46	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:32:00 - [6] - Quote dust badger wrote: sorry bad wording on my part, i mean you can jump straight in to a tank before people have the chance to skill up for good AV so without these people will run amock with tanks, well they are already 4 AV nades and the tank is gone.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.01.11 10:43:00 - [7] - Quote Integral Zan wrote: dust badger wrote: sorry bad wording on my part, i mean you can jump straight in to a tank before people have the chance to skill up for good AV so without these people will run amock with tanks, well they are already 4 AV nades and the tank is gone. this, 12,000sp
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.11 11:40:00 - [8] - Quote Integral Zan wrote: dust badger wrote: sorry bad wording on my part, i mean you can jump straight in to a tank before people have the chance to skill up for good AV so without these people will run amock with tanks, well they are already 4 AV nades and the tank is gone. No! Please don't get rid of no SP militia tanks - I love killing them paper cannons with my killer swarm fit :)
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.11 11:51:00 - [9] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: I think I can speak for all vehicle users when I say Screw you CCP, and you put a damage mod on it, ********. Worst decision so far. The weirdest part is that the blaster turrets on those cardboard crap is freaking painfull. but, even my locus nades deal damage to them. I even gave the last hit with one yesterday. Out of curiosity, how much do you pay your paper made HAV at the moment ?
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.01.11 11:59:00 - [10] - Quote is around 160k but I put blaster turrets on gunner slots.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:17:00 - [11] - Quote AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:38:00 - [12] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots. Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank? All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance. Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck.
DJINN Kujo Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 15	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:44:00 - [13] - Quote They have them cause of their faction their in: "minmatar"... heavier based arsenal
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:52:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots. Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank? All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance. Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck. Actually, I'm not vehicle user. Though I frequently use AV to handle tanks, so your assessment of me is wrong. If you spend over a million for a tank, you should get your money's worth; not something that gets destroyed easily by something completely free. Back when missiles were overpowered, AV needed to be very strong. Now vehicles are not such a scary offensive force anymore, and AV is still getting easier to the point that you can get a forge gun fit for completely free without any ISK or SP investment. Well built expensive vehicle fits should require teamwork to take down, or else what the hell is the point of dumping all that money into it? KDR is just a stat, its ISK and SP that matter. Next time come up with a good argument to support your case rather than just making accusations.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 970	Posted - 2013.01.11 12:56:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots. Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank? All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance. Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck. Yes, your five free starter FG fits vs his 160k ISK tank. I think a large part of what he is complaining about is the complete ISK risk imbalance. It doesn't matter how many times you die, it doesn't cost you 0.01 ISK.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:01:00 - [16] - Quote Skihids wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots. Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank? All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance. Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck. Yes, your five free starter FG fits vs his 160k ISK tank. I think a large part of what he is complaining about is the complete ISK risk imbalance. It doesn't matter how many times you die, it doesn't cost you 0.01 ISK. Im logi numbnuts. I have to pay for my tankhunter kits. but once the tankers get the skills up that are relevant to defense the militia forge usefulness drops sharply. I found this out the hard way, and am limited to annihilating people whos tanks park like stunned sheep. Now the assault forge is where the fun starts.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:14:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: AV is getting way too much buffs: > Militia forge guns on the market. > Free forge gun fits. > A well fitted standard tank can be destroyed in like only 6 forge gun shots (making tanks easy to take down by 1 person) > Skilling for vehicles is waaay slower than skilling for AV, so AV users will be way ahead of pilots. Given the average kill/death ratio of the average solo tank stalker vs. The tank? All I see in this post is a call for the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHmbulance. Now if yer talking about me? Yes im the guy that murdered your toy. took me five dropsuits and a deal with the devil, but you have me to thank for your free burned out wreck. Actually, I'm not vehicle user. Though I frequently use AV to handle tanks, so your assessment of me is wrong. If you spend over a million for a tank, you should get your money's worth; not something that gets destroyed easily by something completely free. Back when missiles were overpowered, AV needed to be very strong. Now vehicles are not such a scary offensive force anymore, and AV is still getting easier to the point that you can get a forge gun fit for completely free without any ISK or SP investment. Well built expensive vehicle fits should require teamwork to take down, or else what the hell is the point of dumping all that money into it? KDR is just a stat, its ISK and SP that matter. Next time come up with a good argument to support your case rather than just making accusations. Still waiting for your rebuttal. Defend free forge gun fits to fight non-free expansive tanks, especially when there are already free swarm launcher AV fits. Its not too much too ask for AV players to actually pay something.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:17:00 - [18] - Quote Easy. Life is not fair, eve is not fair, and dust is not fair. cost does not equal niche protection. lazy tankers deserve to burn.
Yay Adski Doomheim 53	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:32:00 - [19] - Quote If you manage to get hit with 6 FG shots by one guy, you deserve to get destroyed imo.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:34:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Easy. Life is not fair, eve is not fair, and dust is not fair. cost does not equal niche protection. lazy tankers deserve to burn. Pretty convenient way to ignore a balance issue. With that logic CCP shouldn't even bother balancing anything, and just let everything be a total mess and just let it all fail. Regardless of whether you like it or not, balance is important; if one gameplay style is made useless by another, then the developers will have wasted their time with that gameplay style since it will be so unused. Life is also full of risk, EVE is full of risk, and so is Dust. No one is asking for protection, only that the other side has to pay a price and risk as well. AV users should not get free handouts without having to risk losing anything.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.11 13:39:00 - [21] - Quote Yay Adski wrote: If you manage to get hit with 6 FG shots by one guy, you deserve to get destroyed imo. Its actually easier that one might think. On Ashland for example, you can climb this ladder to this really high place, makes it really easy to take down a tank since you have such a good view, and makes it really hard to escape you. I destroyed gunnlogis that way. Climbing on top of those 2 building things on Line Harvest makes it really easy also. Elevation is really useful, give it a try. I'm the one who does the shooting. Like I said before, I'm not a pilot.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.01.11 14:06:00 - [22] - Quote A militia tank dying to militia Av is simply a matter of I'll preparation, the mods don't cost isk but the hull of the tanks do because without their price there would be some of the currently most damaging and highest hp vehicles which would result in an overall less fun to noobs game. Only people who use aurum or received the skinweave heavy have the ability to put out endless Av that is extremely vulnerable to basically every form of hostile compared to Havs which take out most opposition without taking a scratch, the balance is achieved by offsetting the destructive potential of Havs with a weapon that is inferior ro it's standard variant in every way
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2013.01.11 16:48:00 - [23] - Quote Out of the three red militia HAVs I've run up against on day 1, I got the killing blow on two with my forge starter fit. First one I was assisted by militia grenades and gun fire and I got four hits from the forge which needed a reload after the third shot. Second was primarily 2 militia forge users and unknown assistance I couldn't see due to the distance we whacked it from. The one that I didn't destroy? I didn't have my forge fitting on, but it was easy to hide beyond cover whilst still holding an objective.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 36	Posted - 2013.01.12 05:55:00 - [24] - Quote So if I buy the militia heavy suit for under 1000 isk and a militia forge gun for 5000 isk and invest 6000 isk into killing your 160,000 isk tank would you be satisfied? The free forge gun is not all that great and neither is the free swarm launcher. But they do help out when its all you got and some rich kid is griefing all the blue dots with his shiny new tank...
TODDSTER024 Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2013.01.12 07:22:00 - [25] - Quote I have two forge fittings, one with av nades and one with flux nades. I hit tehm with the two flux nades then two shots with the forge gun and they are gone.
AmlSeb Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.12 10:57:00 - [26] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Sir Meode wrote: I think I can speak for all vehicle users when I say Screw you CCP, and you put a damage mod on it, ********. Worst decision so far. The weirdest part is that the blaster turrets on those cardboard crap is freaking painfull. but, even my locus nades deal damage to them. I even gave the last hit with one yesterday. Out of curiosity, how much do you pay your paper made HAV at the moment ? Soma with 4400 armor, 2 light repairers and 800 Shield =237k
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:09:00 - [27] - Quote Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: So if I buy the militia heavy suit for under 1000 isk and a militia forge gun for 5000 isk and invest 6000 isk into killing your 160,000 isk tank would you be satisfied? The free forge gun is not all that great and neither is the free swarm launcher. But they do help out when its all you got and some rich kid is griefing all the blue dots with his shiny new tank... If you pick heavy as your starting class on character creation. You don't even have to spend that. It comes with heavy suit, forge and low slot damage mod, as OP stated. So no ISK cost. It also gives you level 1 in swarm launcher. Even with this free heavy/forge and based on running into Sir Meode several times today, I'm not sure they make a huge difference. A bigger factor was how well the infantry supported his tank and not whether there's now a free forge load out available. In games where AV were allowed to target the tank, it got pushed back. Where blue dots pushed on the AV and capped objectives and limited the angles we could hit it from, then the HAV seemed free to roam. Sir Meode, still feel the same as your first comment after more games?
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.01.13 00:05:00 - [28] - Quote Yes i still feel the same, more so in fact. I have been using this free fit to prove a point also, i have been using it to farm infantry and vehicles. If there is free Militia AV then there should be free Militia Vehicles. That includes HAV and Dropships.
AmlSeb Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.01.13 08:45:00 - [29] - Quote CCP should remove the starter fittings from the game and add a "Gladiator" mode where you may use just prebuild militia fittings of every category including tanks and dropships. There new players can gain experience, SP and ISK to start and broke players can start again.


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