DUST Search - What was wrong with MAG?

Crm234 wrote:

I have nothing against skills , this is always the misconception. Throw the baby out with the bathwater thinking on your part. I dont like the SP skills that increase a players damage, shields, armor, and range. Every other skill is appropriate and those four concepts should only be changed through modules + gear. Not for a one time payment I get all the weapons BPO. Ive gotten used to buying weapons every death in dust over the 4 months ive been in this beta. With all the SP cap problems and no one wearing protogear threads you would think CCP would at least consider maybe it might be the SP on those four subjects that create this need to wanna have SP so fast,

I look upon them as someone that messes with their gear and works to get the best out of it. Or practices a lot with shooting or working out ballistics with their brain.

Right now SP is not about unlocking as it is about surviving. That was one thing MAG did well in a MMOFPS setting. No one felt in Mag if i didnt play for a week I wouldnt be able to survive the next week or cause any damage. Also Snipers couldnt SP their way to heavy armor hitpoints.

You also had levels in MAG did you not? Pretty similar to WOW in a way? I bet there were a lot of people low down that couldn't even get into the good stuff until they got to the high levels right.

Mag also created a real faction warfare , that i dont see dust players having since corps are made up of all factions. I cant argue lore with you since my only introduction is the dust start up about factions.

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Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.09 16:15:00 - [1] - Quote I liked MAG a lot. It wasn't a perfect game, but had some really unique features that I'd like to see implemented in other games, such as lots of people on maps, command structure, deep mechanics for stealth and scanning, and proximity chat which was perhaps the most under-appreciated feature. But I've seen such vitriol directed at MAG here and elsewhere that I haven't seen directed at any other FPS. So, what was wrong with MAG in the eyes of those who hated it?
Innus threen The Exemplars 19	Posted - 2013.01.09 16:24:00 - [2] - Quote I never played it, but my guess is that people don't hate it. It's just that they see people saying, "Make Dust like MAG in this way. Make Dust like MAG that way." and they don't want dust to be like MAG or any other game for that matter. They want Dust to be like Dust. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that was the general impression I got.
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.09 18:22:00 - [3] - Quote MAG got hated because of graphics in the beginning. If you played the game for the first time , you were put in a game mode that was no different then any other FPS with terrible graphics. It wasnt till grinding to lvl 6 did the game start to get fun and begin to understand the reason for lower graphics. Also Zipper was going under and not supporting the game.As well as they were doing a hail mary with socom4 but didnt win. As for in regards to Dust, its because MAG was the closes attempt on a MMOFPS on the PS3. So when trying to develop a MMOFPS Dust is classified as its used a lot. The hate comes from everyone knows dust will be a MMO but everyone wants the end part to be different. RPG or FPS. The genres dont mix like oil and water. MAG had Customization Loadout screen Un lock gear Skill set Player creation Squad/Army structure Commander Experience points Player counts Different game modes Faction Warfare Orbital strike like mechanics A lot things Dust saids it wants and still stayed a FPS
NAV HIV The Generals 151	Posted - 2013.01.09 19:31:00 - [4] - Quote Nothing was wrong with it. Had great times. I wish people focused more on DOM then SABO...
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 411	Posted - 2013.01.10 04:33:00 - [5] - Quote Mostly because a relatively large portion of the Closed Beta testers came from MAG and a good number of them went around on the General going "THIS SUCSK MAG WAS BETTER!" I don't believe they represent the majority of the MAG fanbase (I played the game myself for a couple of months), but they were loud and annoying enough to give a lot of people poor impressions.
TyrionLannister TheIMP Doomheim 4	Posted - 2013.01.10 09:07:00 - [6] - Quote The game didn't appeal to casual gamers.
lilredd31 BLOOD GAME KILLA 1	Posted - 2013.01.10 15:55:00 - [7] - Quote I like this game alot but i love mag . I still play it every day and i hope i will be doing the same with this game . I want a mag 2 and i think in a since this could be it for me .
Zachary Rancourt GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2013.01.11 04:53:00 - [8] - Quote This is my MAG 2. Mag had the problem of not letting everyone gain access to all armor types and weapon types, some PMC's had better then and better that, S.V.E.R had the best SMG/AR/Shotgun in the game and there bullet prof hoodys were strong and fast so a lot of the best players who also had mics went there. Lost a lot of good friends to them. I Capped 4 times, always with VALOR. Loved to fight RAVEN, we both hated S.V.E.R.
Beld Errmon Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 479	Posted - 2013.01.12 11:22:00 - [9] - Quote I'd say the people who have a problem with mag are mag players, so far i've met few mag players that didn't seem to have a huge chip off their shoulder and act like dickish brats.
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 92	Posted - 2013.01.13 08:54:00 - [10] - Quote Any ravens around here need buddies in Accquistion to defeat the armor plated hoodies.

KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:10:00 - [11] - Quote MAG failed. Simple as that. Big dreams, big plans, big money, supposedly the biggest baddest MMO, it wasn't, bad execution, bad servers, failed retreat, attempt to recover. Quit watching after that as it got too painful. Stated goals, missed goals, changed goals, missed those as well. You know, normal video game stuff.
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 391	Posted - 2013.01.13 12:49:00 - [12] - Quote MAG failed and it was way better than this game. Wake up ccp before you go the way of so many.
Kai Sakuemi Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.01.13 14:42:00 - [13] - Quote I miss MAG. I miss teaming up with my RAVEN buddies to go stomp on S.V.E.R's face. It did have issues though, and Zipper really needed to support it way more than they did.
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 184	Posted - 2013.01.13 14:51:00 - [14] - Quote M.A.G. was delicious but crippled in many ways by balance issues due to the devs favouritism of S.V..E.R. It also has terrible, terrible amounts of lag. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony have sabotaged the servers, perhaps even in an attempt to move the playerbase over to Dust 514. Still, it had many features that should become part of Dust, especially the proximity chat. Raven pride.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:00:00 - [15] - Quote Noraa Anderson wrote: M.A.G. was delicious but crippled in many ways by balance issues due to the devs favouritism of S.V..E.R. It also has terrible, terrible amounts of lag. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony have sabotaged the servers, perhaps even in an attempt to move the playerbase over to Dust 514. Still, it had many features that should become part of Dust, especially the proximity chat. Raven pride. You look great in that tin foil hat with the Bad Sony on the front. Sony does not run servers for non-Sony games. 256 players and a new server architecture was the claim. That is what failed.
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 135	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:14:00 - [16] - Quote MAG it seemed to be the first large scale FPS for consoles. In that it was the first of its genre. Dust514 is here to be the genre defining game for large scale FPS. Right now there is only 1 example of large scale FPS on console to look at and imo MAG was awesome, however just as dust will come into problems with COD and BF people so did MAG. Hated stupid blue dots knifing me to get the objective......
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 184	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:40:00 - [17] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: You look great in that tin foil hat with the Bad Sony on the front. Sony does not run servers for non-Sony games. 256 players and a new server architecture was the claim. That is what failed. Pretty sure Sony are the greatest evil that has ever threatened the universe. Also pretty sure that since Zipper died it was Sony left in charge of server maintanence. And yes, my foil fedora is rather dashing, isn't it? Goes perfectly with my badass trenchcoat and fingerless gloves.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.14 06:39:00 - [18] - Quote Crm234 wrote: The genres dont mix like oil and water. Try telling that to Gearbox Software. That aside, EVE isn't really an RPG anyway, it's more of a sandbox with positive aging. DUST doesn't need too much more RPG, it actually needs more of EVE's sandbox - and at least for the MCC post to become available to players (I really hope they get it right, considering how long it's been). MAG did have it's strong points, and it mostly died because Zipper did. But MAG's passing is likely what allowed DUST to gain as much Sony / third-party support as it has been, as otherwise Sony wouldn't need another game like it on the scene. One of the things that MAG did right, and something that DUST actually had for the first builds, was a "tiered" objective mode, where you had to clear sets of objectives before descending on the enemy base. Although the name Skirmish better fits the mode we use it for now, I would like to see that old gametype return, Defense relays and all - just with a slight modifier: the MCC should retreat at 50% total EHP, not dead shields. (accomodates for armor-tanks) One area that DUST is actually a better than MAG in is the general "feel" of the battle - MAG felt like a gigantic paintball / airsoft match, where DUST actually has the impression of a military battle. It's hard to describe exactly why, but it's a marked improvement.
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.14 15:09:00 - [19] - Quote I promised myself i wouldn't argue on this forum anymore .Im now in a position where there is no point ,let the game sink or swim because the developer and the player base have their hands over their ears screaming la la la. Even with remarks like MAG felt like a paintball game and dust doesnt. Or Dust isn't a RPG. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US92PR1tI1o I found this guy from these forums and he hit the nail on the head. He is blunter and meanier that I would like to be but his points really do show how a FPS player thinks about RPG`s
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.14 20:15:00 - [20] - Quote Crm234 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US92PR1tI1o I found this guy from these forums and he hit the nail on the head. He is blunter and meanier that I would like to be but his points really do show how a FPS player thinks about RPG`s ZP is not an FPS-only player. And that's not how us FPS players think about RPGs; that's how many players think about EVE, not just FPS players. It is a running joke about EVE right after EVE's rather punishing learning curve. I've played it twice, and I specifically quite twice because it felt like a second job. I work with spreadsheets at work, and EVE felt like a glorified Excel interface. I'm not alone in that feeling. And it has nothing to do with me being mainly an FPS player (played WoW, SW:TOR and numerous others).

Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.14 21:14:00 - [21] - Quote no he blasts every game your right equally and have enjoy them all even games i have played but he is dead on about the MMORPG combat in my opinion. Im not fighting with you and in fact just saying why its oil and water because many RPG players are trying to bring that grind aspect with bigger boots into dust that really off puts every other genre.
Cade Orion Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:18:00 - [22] - Quote MAG in it's day was the best of the best and really only lost it's core players because it no longer was being supported by Zipper especially after SOCOM came out, they decided to leave it behind and not care anymore. The mechanics of MAG was the best and it having 256 peeps on one battlefield was and still is unique. Could MAG teach CCP something - um hell yes. MAG was all about the battlefield and customizing your own role in the battlefield - hmm sounds similar to another game. I'm sure many of my MAG friends will come here - some have already started. This game appeals to the MAG players, because it is so heavily role based.
Knight of Clockwork Doomheim 1	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:28:00 - [23] - Quote This is really gonna depend on who you ask. Some people hated MAG with a passion: they said it sucked, gunplay was awful, graphics looked like low-PS2 era stuff, and that teams were off balanced. Then there were those who considered MAG a lifestyle. But that's with every game out there, some people hate while others love it. I personally loved the game to pieces. Started back in Closed Beta and I have been playing off and on since then, going from SVER to Valor to Raven and then back to Valor for another round trip of the teams. Sure some things were off balanced and the graphics needed a lift, but taking into the fact that MAG could put 256 players in one map, each with their own looks, loadout, and skills? That was cool and it worked too. Just wish that Zipper had kept up with the game and not let it fall into shambles. I miss the good old days of MAG with clan battles and actual teamwork being implemented by squad leaders. Those are some of the best gaming memories I have. tl;dr some people hate it, others don't. Most people hate it here because so many people came over from MAG boasting that "OMG GUYS THIS IS LIKE MAG 2!!!!" and when this game didn't reach their expectations they *****ed the high hell out of it.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:49:00 - [24] - Quote Crm234 wrote: no he blasts every game your right equally and have enjoy them all even games i have played but he is dead on about the MMORPG combat in my opinion. Im not fighting with you and in fact just saying why its oil and water because many RPG players are trying to bring that grind aspect with bigger boots into dust that really off puts every other genre. The problem is you don't like the concept of having to have skills for anything. If they made it use the same concept as PS2 then they'd look like they were plagarizing possibly. Having it based on SP works for CCP because it's what they're used to. If they made it like CS where you just bought your stuff outright then everyone with major alliance backing or any major corp with major amounts of isk would end up just steamrolling right over any one without it. I know you did the EVE beta. I get it, but the game is so far past the beta that it's a whole nother game entirely in comparison. The average player has several billion isk or more in assets generally. The last tournament CCP had a few months back the guy that runs a raffle system gave each team captain 10 billion isk each. It did not make a dent in his wallet. If people that did not have backing were to play if it was set up that way they'd get steamrolled by people who could slap down several hundred top fits per person. They would not attempt to stick it out, they'd just quit.
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.17 01:38:00 - [25] - Quote I have nothing against skills , this is always the misconception. Throw the baby out with the bathwater thinking on your part. I dont like the SP skills that increase a players damage, shields, armor, and range. Every other skill is appropriate and those four concepts should only be changed through modules + gear. Not for a one time payment I get all the weapons BPO. Ive gotten used to buying weapons every death in dust over the 4 months ive been in this beta. With all the SP cap problems and no one wearing protogear threads you would think CCP would at least consider maybe it might be the SP on those four subjects that create this need to wanna have SP so fast, Right now SP is not about unlocking as it is about surviving. That was one thing MAG did well in a MMOFPS setting. No one felt in Mag if i didnt play for a week I wouldnt be able to survive the next week or cause any damage. Also Snipers couldnt SP their way to heavy armor hitpoints. Mag also created a real faction warfare , that i dont see dust players having since corps are made up of all factions. I cant argue lore with you since my only introduction is the dust start up about factions. The only thing I think that shouldnt be gear related and more SP related is the nanite injectors because we need to make the medic use it more and want the player to want to be revived by it.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.17 01:54:00 - [26] - Quote Crm234 wrote: I have nothing against skills , this is always the misconception. Throw the baby out with the bathwater thinking on your part. I dont like the SP skills that increase a players damage, shields, armor, and range. Every other skill is appropriate and those four concepts should only be changed through modules + gear. Not for a one time payment I get all the weapons BPO. Ive gotten used to buying weapons every death in dust over the 4 months ive been in this beta. With all the SP cap problems and no one wearing protogear threads you would think CCP would at least consider maybe it might be the SP on those four subjects that create this need to wanna have SP so fast, I look upon them as someone that messes with their gear and works to get the best out of it. Or practices a lot with shooting or working out ballistics with their brain. Right now SP is not about unlocking as it is about surviving. That was one thing MAG did well in a MMOFPS setting. No one felt in Mag if i didnt play for a week I wouldnt be able to survive the next week or cause any damage. Also Snipers couldnt SP their way to heavy armor hitpoints. You also had levels in MAG did you not? Pretty similar to WOW in a way? I bet there were a lot of people low down that couldn't even get into the good stuff until they got to the high levels right. Mag also created a real faction warfare , that i dont see dust players having since corps are made up of all factions. I cant argue lore with you since my only introduction is the dust start up about factions. Not everyone is going to agree with a factions agendas or what kind of actions they take. The idea behind New Eden lore in general is that, just like in real life. People are not going to follow a faction, government or party standard. Either because they think it's wrong, they don't like conforming or it just doesn't follow with their religious or ideological beliefs.
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.17 02:33:00 - [27] - Quote how does 5X damage increase come into play with aim practicing? You didnt fit anything you just had 6 more days or what ever time period with passive SP. Also you didnt fit anything when you clicked on fluid mechanics and watched your starter fit go from 150 hp to 185hp in armor as a example. No modules that someone had to craft, no gear that someone had to craft. With the removal of those skills you would actually make the player market ten times better because fits would be required. Also like WOW??? in no way is it like WOW, Right now Dust has more of a WOW leveling system then any other FPS.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.17 03:57:00 - [28] - Quote Crm234 wrote: Also like WOW??? in no way is it like WOW, Right now Dust has more of a WOW leveling system then any other FPS. Full number based levels. There are no levels on here other then skill ones. We don't go from 1-70 like MAG or 1-85 or whatever ridiculous number they're on now. It's levels 1-5 for us for a skill.
Crm234 Wraith Shadow Guards 166	Posted - 2013.01.17 06:26:00 - [29] - Quote the numbers where meaningless, because they were just SP points that were used to unlock items not get more hitpoints, As long as you believe you should do more damage , have more hit points just because you played longer than the other player its no different than WOW progression. Even though Eve throws out all the skills at once and you slowly add to them with passive SP its still a MMORPG progression like WOW. where you start off with nothing and slowly get more damage and armor just for playing. Ask any FPS player do you ever get more hitpoints the longer you play a game? the answer will be 99% no but yes weapons do more damage but not at the range lvl 5 SP damage skill will do. More like the 3 different lvl AR`s we have now in dust.I know your a huge Eve CCP fan and its number one on your list of games but as long as you keep trying to jam the Eve piece into how to fix the FPS problem like spawning and calling every other FPS that solved these problems for the last 10 years crap the development will go no where.Watch a review of MAG not once was Spawning or boring game modes ever complained about that threads on dust are usually about. You can reply with you cant possible understand CCP Oz stuff but I wanted this thread to slide 2 weeks ago till the quote and question started, but the locker room posts dont drop at all. Dont worry I wont be posting past next week corrupting your Eve 2.0 when my new schedule starts.
Zachary Rancourt GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2013.01.24 07:13:00 - [30] - Quote All we can do is keep giving CCP suggestions and see what they do with it. This game right now has a good chance at being a niche game, but we have a long wait yet till the beta ends and the real product will be seen. CCP can only do so much at a time, whether it be big sweeping changes or small tweaks. So try to remember that and save the RAGE for the final cut. I'm trying to. Also it can be played free, with patients.



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