DUST Search - When I Started Back In June

Dr Debo Galaxy wrote:

Parson Atreides wrote:

Dr Debo Galaxy wrote:

But the point is we are in a beta. If I complained that the 2014 porsche doesn't have doors, or a windshield or whatever. People would say " how do you know that it doesn't have doors or a windshield yet, it's not even out". I understand your point, that they said x would be in the game and it may be or it may not be. We have to wait till it is finished. For all we know we all this could be implimented in 20 some days. We don't know, you can assume but not know.

I don't think the analogy is sound. For one thing, doors, windshields, etc, are fundamental things on a car. We're not talking about fundamentals for Dust, we're talking about innovations.

*I'll respond to the analogy as if doors and a windshield were luxuries* If a company had spent 6 years developing this car, if they had a drivable version of it 3 and a half years ago, and if they had promised innovations in a car you had never heard of before and then they let me test drive it, then I'd have the same reservations and concerns I do about Dust. And to make matters worse, let's say in 2014 you know some major technological breakthrough will make cars much less popular? Wouldn't you start to get a little worried about the slow progress they were making on it? I would be and am.

Quote:

I see it like this. We are playing in a framed house. There are just studs and plywood, but none of the things that are promised in a house. The kitchen is there in frame but not ready to use (stove, outlets, cabinets), because the house isn't finished. The carpenters and electricians and plumpers all use the house , maybe even eat in the kitchen. But the owners don't come along and say. " You said there would be cabinets in this kitchen, and they are not there" 2 months before the house is finished.

Na mean

Another analogy I don't think is apt. This isn't a case of "Oh, we have the kitchen (Factional Warfare) built (released for testing) and we're just missing the cabinets or stove (testing for balance, etc)," it's "We don't even have the kitchen built and we're supposed to have this house finished relatively soon." And it isn't just the kitchen, it's a lot of things (mentioned above). The problem for me isn't just that all these things aren't here, it's that I don't think they will be for a long time--something CCP can't really afford to do if they want this to be the success I imagine they expect/need it to be.

Analogies aside, your judging something before it is finished, and saying innovation that was promised for release isn't here in beta is bad logic. If companies announced 3-d t.v.'s and then 6 months before they released it they gave you a t.v. with everything but that for free, and the three d wasn't there because they did not want you to test it would you say " they will never make this T.v. 3-d"? no they have you test what they want you to test because we are the sheep and they are the shepard. We only see the prairie they want us to.


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Hehaw Jimbo Bragian Order Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2013.01.08 22:20:00 - [1] - Quote My problem with DUST is that none of the features that push it beyond a generic FPS seem to be active, or even close to being realized. With the pace the beta has been going (and my experience in EVE), it doesn't seem possible that they will magically pull this all together before release.
Hehaw Jimbo Bragian Order Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2013.01.09 02:14:00 - [2] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Hehaw Jimbo wrote: My problem with DUST is that none of the features that push it beyond a generic FPS seem to be active, or even close to being realized. With the pace the beta has been going (and my experience in EVE), it doesn't seem possible that they will magically pull this all together before release. This is intentional on CCP's part. File it under 'Doing things Right'. Once the EVE-DUST link is working as intended, core mechanics are what they should be, and controls are tightened up, things will be able to move along at a reasonable clip. My best guess is that over the course of the next year content will arrive faster than most of us can ingest it. That's putting an awful lot of faith in CCP, though. They've never been good at implementing things the way they envision them. In EVE, it's generally good vision, horribly incomplete implementation, ignore for a year or two, then sort of bandaid fix it. Unfortunately, DUST seems to be on the same path. I hope they do deliver, but they're already horribly far over their original release schedule, so I'll believe it when I see it.
Hehaw Jimbo Bragian Order Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2013.01.09 04:56:00 - [3] - Quote Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: But the point is we are in a beta. If I complained that the 2014 porsche doesn't have doors, or a windshield or whatever. People would say " how do you know that it doesn't have doors or a windshield yet, it's not even out". I understand your point, that they said x would be in the game and it may be or it may not be. We have to wait till it is finished. For all we know we all this could be implimented in 20 some days. We don't know, you can assume but not know. I don't think the analogy is sound. For one thing, doors, windshields, etc, are fundamental things on a car. We're not talking about fundamentals for Dust, we're talking about innovations. I'll respond to the analogy as if doors and a windshield were luxuries If a company had spent 6 years developing this car, if they had a drivable version of it 3 and a half years ago, and if they had promised innovations in a car you had never heard of before and then they let me test drive it, then I'd have the same reservations and concerns I do about Dust. And to make matters worse, let's say in 2014 you know some major technological breakthrough will make cars much less popular? Wouldn't you start to get a little worried about the slow progress they were making on it? I would be and am. Quote: I see it like this. We are playing in a framed house. There are just studs and plywood, but none of the things that are promised in a house. The kitchen is there in frame but not ready to use (stove, outlets, cabinets), because the house isn't finished. The carpenters and electricians and plumpers all use the house , maybe even eat in the kitchen. But the owners don't come along and say. " You said there would be cabinets in this kitchen, and they are not there" 2 months before the house is finished. Na mean Another analogy I don't think is apt. This isn't a case of "Oh, we have the kitchen (Factional Warfare) built (released for testing) and we're just missing the cabinets or stove (testing for balance, etc)," it's "We don't even have the kitchen built and we're supposed to have this house finished relatively soon." And it isn't just the kitchen, it's a lot of things (mentioned above). The problem for me isn't just that all these things aren't here, it's that I don't think they will be for a long time--something CCP can't really afford to do if they want this to be the success I imagine they expect/need it to be. Analogies aside, your judging something before it is finished, and saying innovation that was promised for release isn't here in beta is bad logic. If companies announced 3-d t.v.'s and then 6 months before they released it they gave you a t.v. with everything but that for free, and the three d wasn't there because they did not want you to test it would you say " they will never make this T.v. 3-d"? no they have you test what they want you to test because we are the sheep and they are the shepard. We only see the prairie they want us to. The point of a beta is to test and improve things. If the core fundamentals are not there, they cannot be improved upon or tested. The beta has been running for quite a while with a surprisingly small amount of "meat" implemented. They've tweaked minor stuff, but none of the stuff that is important for backing up the heavy claims they've made for their game seem to be anywhere in sight. If we wait until the game is released, it's too late. Way, way, WAY too many games have died because the beta was an utter failure and people were saying "ITS JUST A BETA IT'LL ALL MAGICALLY APPEAR ON LAUNCH". Look at FF14, closed beta testers will tell you it needed at least a year when they went into open beta, and there were still a ton of people saying "ITS JUST A BETA IT'LL BE K!". If they can't even get the foundation of these features into such a long beta, how will they cram them in, balance them, and make sure they work properly right before the game launches? CCP isn't exactly known at cramming and getting stuff done at the last minute. If you aren't an EVE player, look up the Incarna fiasco. Basically, they worked on and hyped a "walk in stations" engine for 5+ years, that was supposed to be an avatar addon to EVE that lets you walk around in stations and socialize with others in a more normal looking MMO environment. After years and years of work and hype, what do they release? A single room, where your avatar is alone, and you can't interact with others at all. They ended up putting the rest of Incarna on hold indefinitely because of community backlash at the failure of years of work for no actual result. Unfortunately, to me, DUST is starting to look the same way. They make these huge claims about how great the game is gonna be and what it is going to do, but a year into closed beta these claims still seem completely unsupported. They're planning to launch in like a year, that doesn't give them much time to pull these systems out of their collective asses, and this worries many of us.
Hehaw Jimbo Bragian Order Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2013.01.09 06:55:00 - [4] - Quote Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: I see it this way though. In the game MAG they promised an innovation of 256 people in one battle. They never really had this implemented during the beta. It was just the smallest mode that we played. But the game released with a mode that had 256 people in it. There are examples both ways. Also maybe they learned from past mistakes, maybe they won't. We can only wait and see. Plus this is what people decide to be worried about. Not starvation, not the world economy, descrimination. No i'm worried that this video game might not have everything right away. Really!? Yeah, but that's a server capacity limitation, while a lot of the DUST boasts just seem to be ideas in some dude's head at this point. Also, comparing discussion about a video game on a video game forum to real world issues such as economy and starvation is beyond idiotic, and as such, this is the last post I'll be making towards you. These forums exist to discuss the beta, not world hunger.