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Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2013.01.07 22:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:how is damage buildup rate a downfall. If tht is your logic then you have no idea what ur talking about. buildup rate is what makes a laser so powerful. Do u mean it's to high? But i agree with the less damage to armor part. The downfall is that it takes a good 2-3 seconds before it does some real damage. That is the damage build up rate. Unlike the laser, an AR does the same damage instantly.
Yea cause 2-3s is only a big deal if you're actually focusing the lazer on them during the buildup as opposed to building up the damage in the air or something from an angle where they wont see the lazer and then just sweeping it onto their bodies which is basically instakill, also unlike other weapons where i dont think having a mouse is that much better, with lazer they are unequivocally superior with a mouse. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 23:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Main detractors here, you can make a forge gunner miss, in cqc there are other things i can do against a shotty.
Against any LR, you can make that argument that it sucks when in close range, try closing range when your up on a building with only one ladder, Oh use a sniper oh gee why didnt i think of that, okay tank enough into my dropsuit so i cant get OHK and then find the sniper and kill him(sure snipers have longer range, most dont use it and most maps dont really accomodate it yet).
Silly rabbit any person with elevation should and does have the advantage. Okay but with lazer unlike other weapons i can make them miss and often kill them before they can kill me.
Which brings me to my next and final point virtually every other weapon has the potential to miss shots which often will lead to return fire and death. The LR not only is difficult to make miss it gets worse on you for making them miss when they get you back on the beam.
Oh needs good target acquistion you say, WRONG needs a mouse and then its game over.
LR is simply more effective in it is "effective niche" than any other weapon is in their "effective niche" with perhaps only exception to shotty and even shotty users i can handle with pretty effectively.
Oh and im not qqing that i get killed by lazers, i have and can kill lazers but just because i can do it does not mean they are not OP(okay by definition it isn"t "OP") but as a vernacular ppl say OP when they really mean unbalanced which it most certainly is.
Sorry when i can go from roughly a 1.2-1.5 KDR to a KDR of 4-50 there is a problem.
It is way more effective at area of denial than even my MD, i can just wreak stupid havok in a way that i cant with any other weapon. Enough ppl have played against me to recognize that im at best an above avg player to pretty good, but by no mean leet. If in my hands the weapon is that easy and effective then it really is out of balance. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 00:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:Icy Tiger wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:The best solution to lasers is actually damage build-up based on time on target, not time on lolanything. That wouldn't make sense. Why? And how does shooting the ground until my weapon gets hot and thus does more damage to something that wasn't aimed at yet make sense? @Tiel well the fact that it's constantly heating up may be th logic why it builds up damage @Icy a damage increase only while keeping the laser on the target makes sense to me and it seems like it's a perfectly good way to balance it out to me.
Yes I agree with both parts, the first is exactly why it makes sense the rifle builds up heat as it generates an increasing amplitude in wavelength. Remember physics folks, an electron acts both as a particle and a wave. As to the excitability of the of particles as they are being accelerated they jump out of their natural valences into higher ones and eventually as they lose excitability they release energy(often in the form of heat).
Anyway i digress one can argue that by having the lazer on that it builds up this energy and thus damage for duration it is active. Another application is that the beam is in a "steady" state until it has an object/energy source upon which to focus on... In this case the high energy fields required to produce the shield(for which Lazer are supposed to be effective). Any residual damage done to armor would be the effect of the "heat" and not the "partcles/wavelengths" producing interference(on the shields) for those who say well that would break lazer because they take too long to "heat" up to produce damage, they can "tweak/balance" the damage buildup to compensate for the new mechanic.
Have i given you your desired "logic/scientific rationale"?
Does this not have the proper balancing required for the weapon?
The only down side to this of course is that it would no longer be a true area of denial weapon.
Though it would still be useful as an area denial weapon if the "heat buildup" didnt have too rapid a cooldown allowing for chaining of targets within a reasonable time frame.
Also clip and max ammo and other variable would need to be compensated and altered. but all in all we can and should make the LR this type of weapon and have plenty of time to work on it and make it a great weapon that functions well without the ridiculous properties it currently possess.
I will leave only this one caveat.
If the maps sizes become larger than they are now and they have more cover options and all the objectives arent centered around the middle of a bowl and structures high up dont have perfect clear LOS to everything on the map and the LR beam dont bend or otherwise ignore the obstacles upon which players use for cover than MAYBE LR will be fine as is but thats a big maybe |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 00:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Lasers are ineffective at close range as they do not spray the way AR and SMG do. Get close and you can easily dodge the brunt of the damage - this is their weakness in my experience. yep it is thts why u carry a powerful sub machine gun.  Exactly - fittings in New Eden (as I just said in a different thread) are about trade offs. Want to do massive damage from range? Then you will have no damage in close. Find a way with the rest of your fits to close the gaps and cover the weakness.
So how does a shotty user compensate for their short range? Assualt SMG? not really the same is it?
At the end of the day the sucks at close range argument is pretty weak as it can still do well at close range with the right skill point attributes, when ppl say they can kill lazer at close range how often is it they just battled into that range while the LR user saw you do it, cause most just keep backpeddeling and keep distance, or is it that you caught them by surprise, because if so well that has more to do with the catching by surprise bit doesnt it.
Even if we took this one weakness really are there any other ones?
The damage buildup is a faux weakness as it has been proven time and again why it is actually a strength in the hands of a person who knows how to use it to their advantage.
But i think im done now with this and all LR threads at the end all we're doing is talking in circles, either the fix it or they dont, if they dont well fine ill be speccing into a viziam real quick and keeping a heavy by my side to street sweep the ones i dont pick off like womp rats. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:
My answer to that idea? It'll make it absolutely f***ing useless as a killing weapon.
Perhaps you need to reread the part where i said damage buidup would need to be adjusted to allow for the new mechanic so it can maintain killing power. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 04:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Icy Tiger wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Icy Tiger wrote:
My answer to that idea? It'll make it absolutely f***ing useless as a killing weapon.
Perhaps you need to reread the part where i said damage buidup would need to be adjusted to allow for the new mechanic so it can maintain killing power. But that doesn't make it a laser anymore does it? Why bother, when an AR can do the same thing? You can't charge an AR in air. If it shoots out a beam of death light it's a laser.
^This |
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