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Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
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Posted - 2013.01.07 21:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Run with a Logi and be happy that you can have passive recharge (and yes, I run armor Assault from time to time).
As an alternative, I think there could be an active repper that takes an equipment slot instead of the passive repper, since this is how Eve works as well. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 21:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Run with a Logi and be happy that you can have passive recharge (and yes, I run armor Assault from time to time).
As an alternative, I think there could be an active repper that takes an equipment slot instead of the passive repper, since this is how Eve works as well. The active would be cool. Isn't there supposed to be a stacking penalty on extenders, plate, damage, and a couple other mods. If they ever put this in it will also be a good balance between armor and shields.
Stacking penalties only apply to modules whose bonuses are based on percentages, and not flat numbers. For example, a damage modifier might give a 5% bonus, so this is impacted. On the opposite side, a Shield Extender gives a flat amount of HP that doesn't change based on other circumstances, so no stacking penalty happens. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
By the way, I personally don't feel we need to make any changes. The reason I feel this way is from the Precursor build. In that build there was a bug that let the armor rep tool repair yourself if you didn't have anyone targeted - it made Proto Assault very unbalanced and allowed players it to bunch up multiple encounters more quickly allowing for an unusually large number of kills. Effectively, we have already tested this and it was determined to be somewhat game breaking.
EDIT: I know some of you will say that shield Assault do this too, but keep in mind that the trade off is damage. A shield Assault does less damage than the armor since the shield and damage mods are both high slot items. To get that recharge rate, a character does less DPS. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Correct me if im wrong but somebody told me that armor also isnt as protective as it should be, meaning that armor is supposed to be more resilient against certain things that it currently is.
As for armor rep modules i do feel they are a bit underwhelming but again if armor isnt protecting like it should then perhaps that may explain why.
As far as shield regen not sure if it differs by class but for logis its 5s for a partial depletion and 10s for a full depletion, i have in fact avoided damage in open conflict for 5s and have witnessed it begin to regen not sure if that is intended or not.
i think an active module similar to tanks would be nice of course the numbers would have to be adjusted. All in all armor rep modules are not worth the cost for time it takes to rep them in any meaningful way so i agree with OP on this one.
Of course i dont want too drastic a change to armor because ppl still need to die, but i think rather than increases in shileding increases in armor across the tiers for dropsuits(without movement penalty) might be a good compromise if they keep armor the way it is now.
Eventually, damage types will be introduced, and so armor will be very resistant to thinks like EM damage, and not resistant at all to Explosive. Same goes for shields - very resistant to Kinetic, but not resistant to EM at all. As of today, though, it's all just hit points (sorry for everyone who thinks lasers hurt shields more than armor - that is a myth and is based on the fact that lasers can hurt the shields of the person firing).
In New Eden there are four damage types:
EM
Kinetic
Thermal
Explosive
Each suit will probably have its own natural resistances for Shield, and then separate resistance number for Armor, and eventually there will be mods you can fit to modify these resistances. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Resistances in Eve work like this (numbers made up for illustrative purposes only): my shields have 75% resistance to Explosive, 60% to Kinetic, 40% to Thermal, and 0% for EM. I get shot by a weapon that does 25 point of Kinetic danage and 10 points of Thermal damage. Because of my resistances, I take 10 points of Kinetic damage and 6 points of Thermal, for a total of 16 points of damage instead of 35 total.
Now, if I add a shield resistance mod for Thermal that grants me 10% resistance, it doesn't boost me to 50% total Thermal resistance, instead the 10% is applied the remaining 60% I am subject to - that means that I resist 10% of the remaining 60%, or an extra 6% bonus. My total Thermal resistance is now 46%. Taking the same example as above, I now take 5.4 points of Thermal damage instead of 6 points.
If I add a second Thermal resistance mod to my shields, it results in 10% of the remaining 54% I am subject to being negated, which is an additional 5.4%, taking me to a total of 51.4% total resistance to Thermal damage. Now, the shot that hit me for 10 points of Thermal means I take only 4.86 points of damage, instead of the original 6 points.
Welcome to the world of stacking penalties. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 22:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Resistances in Eve work like this (numbers made up for illustrative purposes only): my shields have 75% resistance to Expplosive, 60% to Kinetic, 40% to Thermal, and 0% for EM. I get shot by a weapon that does 25 point of Kinetic danage and 10 points of Thermal damage. Because of my resistances, I take 10 points of Kinetic damage and 6 points of Thermal, for a total of 16 points of damage instead of 35 total.
Now, if I add a shield resistance mod for Thermal that grants me 10% resistance, it doesn't boost me to 50% total Thermal resistance, instead the 10% is applied the remaining 60% I am subject to - that means that I resist 10% of the remaining 60%, or an extra 6% bonus. My total Thermal resistance is now 46%. Taking the same example as above, I now take 5.4 points of Thermal damage instead of 6 points.
If I add a second Thermal resistance mod to my shields, it results in 10% of the remaining 54% I am subject to being negated, which is an additional 5.4%, taking me to a total of 51.4% total resistance to Thermal damage. Now, the shot that hit me for 10 points of Thermal means I take only 4.86 points of damage, instead of the original 6 points.
Welcome to the world of stacking penalties.
Your goal here, by the way, is fill the gap. Due to stacking penalties, the higher the original resistance modifier, the less return you get from the resistance mod. In this case, you would probably fit EM mods. So for your first mod, you would get the full 10%, so you only take 90% of total damage. Add a second mod, and you get 10% of 90% (or an additional 9% net resistance) taking you to 19% resist of EM damage. Make sense? |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 23:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd like to point out something: there are always trade off in New Eden. Want to have more damage output? Go with armor so you can fit the damage mods.
Want to be more mobile and better able to survive? You will do less damage because the shield mods take the same slots as the damage mods.
Tanking is balanced. Please look at the big picture, and look at the context. Forest, not the trees. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 01:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
William HBonney wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Correct me if im wrong but somebody told me that armor also isnt as protective as it should be, meaning that armor is supposed to be more resilient against certain things that it currently is.
As for armor rep modules i do feel they are a bit underwhelming but again if armor isnt protecting like it should then perhaps that may explain why.
As far as shield regen not sure if it differs by class but for logis its 5s for a partial depletion and 10s for a full depletion, i have in fact avoided damage in open conflict for 5s and have witnessed it begin to regen not sure if that is intended or not.
i think an active module similar to tanks would be nice of course the numbers would have to be adjusted. All in all armor rep modules are not worth the cost for time it takes to rep them in any meaningful way so i agree with OP on this one.
Of course i dont want too drastic a change to armor because ppl still need to die, but i think rather than increases in shileding increases in armor across the tiers for dropsuits(without movement penalty) might be a good compromise if they keep armor the way it is now. Eventually, damage types will be introduced, and so armor will be very resistant to thinks like EM damage, and not resistant at all to Explosive. Same goes for shields - very resistant to Kinetic, but not resistant to EM at all. As of today, though, it's all just hit points (sorry for everyone who thinks lasers hurt shields more than armor - that is a myth and is based on the fact that lasers can hurt the shields of the person firing). In New Eden there are four damage types: EM. Kinetic Thermal Explosive Each suit will probably have its own natural resistances for Shield, and then separate resistance number for Armor, and eventually there will be mods you can fit to modify these resistances. You sir are wrong. Pistols do more vs shield and less against armor. Smg do less vs shield and more to armor. ARs are standard and do the same.....how do I know this? Look at the efficiency rating..pistol is 120 on shields and 80 on armor. Please get your facts straight.
Thanks for the correction. Damage types are still coming though per early CCP info on the game. |
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