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2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
235
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Posted - 2013.01.06 11:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
A better sp system would be to have it so that the game knows the mean average sp of everyone playing dust and uses that to determine sp gains based on if you are with the pack, behind it or in the lead.
this sp system is based on the idea of attracting and keeping new players. not creating a bubble where players in the lead can never be caught up to, and that this is a game about skill and teamwork more then sp numbers and grind.
here is the basic of the idea.
---------------Below the avg
lets say the mean average of sp in dust is 7 mil sp. A player who is below that gets a percent based boost in order to have a higher change to catch up with the pack. so if he is a new player and it took the original pack 2 years to get to 7 mil sp. through serious playing it would take about 1/4 to 1/3 third that time to catch up to the pack, calculating in a diminishing percent boost to the sp gains of that new player. so it takes him perhaps 6 months or 3 with boosters to catch up with the in game average sp.
Why? because as a fps gets older it will naturally has a diminishing return on player base and how much work people are going to put into it to catch up.
I know that if i was 2 years behind the rest of the players in a game and by the time i was caught up to them they would be 2 years ahead of that. I would not play or start to play.
Also by maintaining the 6 month gap for new players the game will never get to the point where it runs away from people never being able to play with the core sp group
also scouts for corps can be on the look out for new up and comers and can recruit these talented players into their corp without worrying about how they will never be able to play with the big boys.
---------------with the avg
The at this point it is all about competitive corp battles and skill while maintaining your sp with the rest of the pack.
------------- fighting to be at the cutting edge
If your fighting hard to be ahead of the pack its doable but its a constant fight to keep that edge. The further percentage wise you are above the pack the more percentage of time its going to cost you to pull ahead, until your get so far ahead your practically treading water. diminishing returns. but being the best in something was never meant to be easy.
Why? because systems where seniority is king based on work you did 1 year ago and you stay above everyone else based on what you "used" to be able to do is for weaklings. Every time you log on you should have to defend your top spot from younger hungrier dogs and your skill and experience should be your deciding factor not your time in.
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WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
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Posted - 2013.01.06 17:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
As long as the noobs can't catch up to me in 2-6 months, I'm fine |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2013.01.06 22:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
That seems unecessarily complex. It also makes it impossible for CCP to determine the lifespan of the game. You would need a steady influx of new players to keep the regulars from maxing out in a couple of months.
How about just a cap that gradually increases, with diminishing returns the closer you get to it. That way the pros stay at the top, but new players aren't presented with an irreconcilable skills gulf. This also means CCP has complete control over the maximum sp gains.
I agree the current system needs changing. Two people playing for the same total time, will get completely different amounts of sp depending on when they play, and someone who, say, goes on holiday, is penalised with a permanent disadvantage. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
435
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Posted - 2013.01.06 23:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Since SP is based off EVE, little change will occur. My idea is the "Aging Passive SP"
You get more SP passively as a new character. However, the older you character becomes, the lower your passive SP is worth until it plateaus somewhere reasonable.
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Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2013.01.06 23:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm going to be frank - NO to your idea.
Normally I try to adjust a person's idea to fit in, no matter how crazy. But the core mechanic of your idea simply will not work.
Why? Even if it is an MMO - actually, especially so - I don't want my progression to be hamstrung just because there's more people behind you, and I'm completely sure there are others who think the same!
As is, there are diminishing returns to your match SP rewards. I'm fine with that because it's a percentage applied equally, and you lose less points when you have less points to start with - it's just how percentages work. Since players earning less SP don't lose as much to diminishing returns, then I really don't see a problem here.
The real issue is separating the noobs from the vets, likely via system security that works up in EVE. Then the playing field will be more even |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
235
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Posted - 2013.01.06 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
[quote=Chunky Munkey]You would need a steady influx of new players to keep the regulars from maxing out in a couple of months.
 You must have misunderstood me. When you are with the mean avg of gamers IE "the regulars". the sp advance is unhindered, at no point are you being "held back" by new players. you advance as per. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
235
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 00:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:I'm going to be frank - NO to your idea.
Normally I try to adjust a person's idea to fit in, no matter how crazy. But the core mechanic of your idea simply will not work.
Why? Even if it is an MMO - actually, especially so - I don't want my progression to be hamstrung just because there's more people behind you, and I'm completely sure there are others who think the same!
As is, there are diminishing returns to your match SP rewards. I'm fine with that because it's a percentage applied equally, and you lose less points when you have less points to start with - it's just how percentages work. Since players earning less SP don't lose as much to diminishing returns, then I really don't see a problem here.
The real issue is separating the noobs from the vets, likely via system security that works up in EVE. Then the playing field will be more even
what you say makes no sense. For 1 a noob can buy a account. or team farm a account, Why do you think SP is the determining factor from a noob to a good player? skill is my boy.
and as to your hamstrung by players behind you that's a misinterpretation, when your with the pack you have no deminishing returns until you attempt to pull far out in front.
Under the way you want things done there is absolutely no way people would want to play a game they are 6 mounts behind in and will always be 6 months behind other players simply because they have "time in". game is about skill over sp. not sp over skill.
under your way of doing business your likely to have a good number of players at launch but your ability to bring in new players to a fps would be kneecapped.
fps'er dont like catering to old timers, they like catering to skill. I would not play this game 1 year after launch under the current system. And it would be a turn off for allot of people.
If i did I would buy a account or play on a buddies, and that's a poor system to have in place. also ccp gains nothing when i buy a account. but they gain if i buy boosters. Cant buy skill though. that's why i like fps in the first place.
and if the game requires a exponentially larger amount of AUR skill boosters to play with the majority of people then the game can end up costing far more over time for a new player in a year then it did originally.
look at every mmo ever. they all just end up rounding down the current levels to make progression to the mean average easier. That is why if you look at other games they end up chasing their own tail with regards to xp advancement. The beauty of my system is that its self regulating by the average players play time and average game sp levels.
under your system I GUARANTEE CCP will end up having to push out new accounts with super high skill boosters or they will start with "SPECIAL OFFER 5 mil sp! when you buy starter merc pack!" and so on.
seen it all the time friend, how the world works, open your eyes. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2013.01.07 02:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:[quote=Chunky Munkey]You would need a steady influx of new players to keep the regulars from maxing out in a couple of months. You must have misunderstood me. When you are with the mean avg of gamers IE "the regulars". the sp advance is unhindered, at no point are you being "held back" by new players. you advance as per.
Your system would hold back pros with new players. A 500k sp character will lower the average, but that's not my objection. My issue is that the sp gains would either be out of CCP's control, or would have to be constantly tweaked.
CCP needs to be able to decide how quickly we can skill up. If they didn't, many players, even casual regulars, would max out in a matter of a few months. It would basically kill off one of the most important rpg elements.
Your system threatens to do this, because without new players, the whole player base would progress toward an "endgame" scenario relatively unhindered.
I don't want to clutter the thread with hypothetical maths, so I'll just suggest that you imagine different scenarios for your system.
Edit: please note also, that disagreement with your idea does not constitute support for the current system. This applies to others as well as myself. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United
Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.01.07 03:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's not like the game is pay to play. They can play it for free. Personally I'd rather play this free then pay 60 dollars every 6 to 9 months for the next COD or BF game. |
Zat Earthshatter
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 10:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
Post responding to mine
I will say right off that, yes, I was a little harsh with my words. And I apologize for that.
I also think that something can be worked out with this idea - but focus on the carrot instead of the stick. EVE did it with the "Cerebral Accelerator" implant; maybe something similar will work for DUST, as you only need to get a player up to speed, not necessarily right with the other guys in a couple months.
Should players take an SP penalty for being ahead, even significantly? No.
SP is not a direct measure of ability in New Eden, but an SP penalty to those that have more SP than the "pack"... well, it's going to turn off those who have been playing longer - which will likely be us beta testers.
As for the "noobs": Either way, they are going to be at a disadvantage on toon creation due to a lack of the real power-number of the universe: ISK. And I really don't think CCP will mess with that...
Am I a "drown the noobs" type? No, but I understand how my post came off like that.
Although there is going to be a high curve for new players, it's honestly what they signed up for if they did their homework. It may be an FPS, but it's still in the EVE Universe - infamous for its own difficulty.
I do agree that, as it stands now in beta, they will be caught with their pants down. The fix for that is tutorials for the more difficult portions, and a proper, voluntary separation in the same way EVE does - CONCORD security levels. Nobody knows how it will play out, but something of the sort is supposed to be on its way.
Tutorials wouldn't hurt either, and the way EVE does tutorials can work in DUST with a few modifications.
And for the core bit: SP.
It's not really as important as it seems. On the FPS side, player controller skill should be (and sofar almost is) #1 in deciding the outcome of a battle, with weapon stats only affecting those of equal skill.
On the EVE side, New Eden's true core is the history, vast empires and their politics, and the living economy - ALL driven by players.
Not only that, but EVE and DUST would actually suffer from a WoW-like superjump in new players because the games thrive on slow, steady growth. Those players that do stay are those that appreciate what they are a part of, and will stick it through no matter what is thrown their way.
In the end, it is resilience and cunning, not big numbers, that rules the roost in this world. |
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