DUST Search - Is it just me or is it becoming another boring/bland shooter?

Berserker007 wrote:

Vrain Matari wrote:

Jaiden Longshot wrote:

Snake,

I get that you are frustrated but I think you are exaggerating a bit:

1) The PROTO variants are way better than militia in every respect. If they weren't, you would see guys going 36-1 in full militia fits rather than Duvolles fit on ADV, PROTO, or Type II's. Is it more efficient than militia, No. That's why it should be reserved for the important fights and not every public match you play in. Since you are comparing to EvE....It's not like every time a pilot undocks he does so in a Dark Blood, Sansha, or Officer fit Battleship.

2) You are saying just because CCP has narrowed the gap between variants they might as well remove all skills and give us sling shots. That's like telling your parents to cancel Christmas because they gave you 10 yr old car instead of a new Benz.

3) The market will have an impact if only because you will be able to sell your loot drops of items you don't plan on using which essentially gives you another income stream to fund your craving to rock PROTO gear all day errryday. Not to mention the free market will create price competition and you can expect all variants to have price fluctuation. If you want your gear cheaper, get to producing it or find an EvE Corp who will do so for you at a reduced cost.

This game isn't just about leveling and skilling. The depth of universe and the ongoing war is the end game.

Besides....An older player in this universe isn't necessarily going to be better with an AR than a properly skilled 3 month old player. He can just use more than the AR whereas the 3 month old player probably cannot do so or, if he can, he can't use other weapons as effectively as the older player.

+1 in admiration for clear, reasoned and concise analysis. Plus the ability to see beyond the immediate. Plus vision.

parts of this i agree w/ yet others....ah, not so much

Firstly, i do like that you are looking to the future, however, much of what you said WONT be there on release. A lot of the player driven market and stuff like that won't be added till 6 months in (as CCP said it wont be on release); and as it is, we can only discuss what is affecting us NOW, as for all we know things will change later on that either validates all this or doesnt.

To narrowing the gaps of weapons; simply put = bad. I am not the most skilled gun (can admit it), but a benefit of running proto weapons & suits in prior builds helped in my & others survivability. Now the suits and guns dont really help in that. From a T2 suit to a Vk.1 , if you are on a buffer fit, the only real difference is 128 shield, which translates to 4 bullets from an AR, which comes down to a bit more then a quarter of a second of holding the trigger. So yes, skill is good to have; but for the amount of time & SP required to get proto gear should have reasonable edge. As to compare SP, a T2 to a proto is separated by about ~2mil SP (i believe), yet the only difference is a bit of extra shield/damage & maybe a regulator.

As to proto variants being better then all others; they are, but it isnt enough to warrant the use when u look at ISK cost and SP cost. This gets worse when you compare proto weapons/gear of differ categories against each other. If you lok at a proto AR vs a basic HMG. The skilling potential is almost equal w/ the flattening of damage. Before a proto/adv AR has a good chance to beat an HMG in CQC which they should b/c of the SP they put into their character. Yet now, that is a totally different story. Reason is, in even last build; a GEK AR, had semi "trouble" taking on a basic/adv heavy in CQB ranges b/c of the dps a hmg does along w/ the tanking a heavy naturally comes with. Yet now, the Duvolle now is barely above whata GEK was, so AR (which are a jack of all trade weapon), have been semi kicked out of a CQC arena, and put o medium range, which they aren't good for anymore b/c of iron sights; where LR now rule.

The flattening of damage affected weapon roles (and reason to skill them) by causing a disparity when compared to other gear/weapon levels. As it was last build and prior builds, it was good for a proto AR to take out a basic/adv heavy in "CQC" range is warranted b/c of the SP & time put in; however the reason (at moment) for grinding for the ability has been removed.

All im getting at here (as people will prob agree or flame) is that skill is a factor needed; but not everyone is on equal skilling; and that GEAR should help and play a role but also not be a sole factor; yet at the moment the gear doesn't match up to the SP & ISK required to use them


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mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.04 15:19:00 - [1] - Quote One of the big things we need, ismore complex game modes. Bring back the old skirmish! Also, MAG had a game mode (acquisition) where you had to attack/defend a map. Goal was for the attacker to get to rear of map, and steal a vehicle. Vehicle could be any objective, but it was great because it was different than deathmatch or contol points.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.04 20:11:00 - [2] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Jaiden Longshot wrote: Snake, I get that you are frustrated but I think you are exaggerating a bit: 1) The PROTO variants are way better than militia in every respect. If they weren't, you would see guys going 36-1 in full militia fits rather than Duvolles fit on ADV, PROTO, or Type II's. Is it more efficient than militia, No. That's why it should be reserved for the important fights and not every public match you play in. Since you are comparing to EvE....It's not like every time a pilot undocks he does so in a Dark Blood, Sansha, or Officer fit Battleship. 2) You are saying just because CCP has narrowed the gap between variants they might as well remove all skills and give us sling shots. That's like telling your parents to cancel Christmas because they gave you 10 yr old car instead of a new Benz. 3) The market will have an impact if only because you will be able to sell your loot drops of items you don't plan on using which essentially gives you another income stream to fund your craving to rock PROTO gear all day errryday. Not to mention the free market will create price competition and you can expect all variants to have price fluctuation. If you want your gear cheaper, get to producing it or find an EvE Corp who will do so for you at a reduced cost. This game isn't just about leveling and skilling. The depth of universe and the ongoing war is the end game. Besides....An older player in this universe isn't necessarily going to be better with an AR than a properly skilled 3 month old player. He can just use more than the AR whereas the 3 month old player probably cannot do so or, if he can, he can't use other weapons as effectively as the older player. +1 in admiration for clear, reasoned and concise analysis. Plus the ability to see beyond the immediate. Plus vision. parts of this i agree w/ yet others....ah, not so much Firstly, i do like that you are looking to the future, however, much of what you said WONT be there on release. A lot of the player driven market and stuff like that won't be added till 6 months in (as CCP said it wont be on release); and as it is, we can only discuss what is affecting us NOW, as for all we know things will change later on that either validates all this or doesnt. To narrowing the gaps of weapons; simply put = bad. I am not the most skilled gun (can admit it), but a benefit of running proto weapons & suits in prior builds helped in my & others survivability. Now the suits and guns dont really help in that. From a T2 suit to a Vk.1 , if you are on a buffer fit, the only real difference is 128 shield, which translates to 4 bullets from an AR, which comes down to a bit more then a quarter of a second of holding the trigger. So yes, skill is good to have; but for the amount of time & SP required to get proto gear should have reasonable edge. As to compare SP, a T2 to a proto is separated by about ~2mil SP (i believe), yet the only difference is a bit of extra shield/damage & maybe a regulator. As to proto variants being better then all others; they are, but it isnt enough to warrant the use when u look at ISK cost and SP cost. This gets worse when you compare proto weapons/gear of differ categories against each other. If you lok at a proto AR vs a basic HMG. The skilling potential is almost equal w/ the flattening of damage. Before a proto/adv AR has a good chance to beat an HMG in CQC which they should b/c of the SP they put into their character. Yet now, that is a totally different story. Reason is, in even last build; a GEK AR, had semi "trouble" taking on a basic/adv heavy in CQB ranges b/c of the dps a hmg does along w/ the tanking a heavy naturally comes with. Yet now, the Duvolle now is barely above whata GEK was, so AR (which are a jack of all trade weapon), have been semi kicked out of a CQC arena, and put o medium range, which they aren't good for anymore b/c of iron sights; where LR now rule. The flattening of damage affected weapon roles (and reason to skill them) by causing a disparity when compared to other gear/weapon levels. As it was last build and prior builds, it was good for a proto AR to take out a basic/adv heavy in "CQC" range is warranted b/c of the SP & time put in; however the reason (at moment) for grinding for the ability has been removed. All im getting at here (as people will prob agree or flame) is that skill is a factor needed; but not everyone is on equal skilling; and that GEAR should help and play a role but also not be a sole factor; yet at the moment the gear doesn't match up to the SP & ISK required to use them It doesn't have to be one absolute over the other. I think MANY people agree, suits are pretty good, there is enough of a difference between militia and proto. Several hundred more HP, faster shield regen, armor repping, cpu and pg, etc. Guns are debatable. IMO, they're a little too close together in terms of damage, BUT, I'm not sure if putting them back to original values is the right answer. Closer to old values... yes, but maybe leave them just shy of old values. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. BTW, once everything is implemented, and you have full integration of secondary markets, high/low/null sec, etc, we can always take another look at weapon stats, and ccp can further tweak and return weapon values to 30/33/36. PS. I agree with other poster, Breach variants should be returned to old values. Once the hit detection was fixed, that auto improved the higher ROF weapons. Breach variants didn't need to be touched.