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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
443
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Posted - 2013.01.02 10:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Making them more accessable was obviously very badly received by some in this community so I'll skip that part even though I still want it, and keep to basics.
1. First off, hitting your target is way too hard, sometimes. It shouldn't be a case of having to stab 12 times in different locations while being under enemy fire. This makes me as a medic be more careful and pick less people up. I'm not gonna risk my proto stuff just to pick up some random dude that ran out of cover. I might still do it if I knew I would effortlessly hit my target, then I could pop out, do the rez, and pop back behind cover again.
My suggestion is that they simply fix the mechanics. Alternatively they could just give it a sort of auto aim, much like the AV nades have. When you approach someone dying, something on your screen will notify you that you are close enough to pick someone up and you should only need to tap R2 once.
2. Some credit where credit is due. I'd like the ressusitations to be shown on the kill feed. We get a notifications when clones die, but not when they're being "shot back to life".
Picking people up is not merely a way to save some ISK, its also tactically very important. Not only to keep a sustained attack on an objective, but also to avoid loosing from loss of clones. I don't 100% know this, but I have been told that the loss of a clone only happens once you bleed out. At least it is this way in terms of loosing equipment, I've ended games dead but not bled out, and I haven't lost the suit I was wearing at the time.
In Ambush you fight to deplete the enemy clone supply, its not about kills per se, its about bleeding people out or "spending" their clones. So if I go 20-10 in an Ambush game, and I pick up 5 people that actually survives, I'm team-wise in reality going 20-5. Got it?
3. Some indications on my screen of where and "when" my dead comrades in arms really are. This is not a problem for the ones in my group, we talk about these things. I'd like to have a distance counter over the Nanite injector symbol that I can see when somebody needs my help. I'd like to know if I have to run 50 meters or 250, which can be hard to determine short of flipping up the large map.
We have distance counters on the objectives so why not on the peeps lying on the ground? This may be hard to code in, I dunno, these are random targets vs the fixed positions of the objectives. If this is possible to code then I'd very much like this to be implemented.
4. I'd like two new skills to be added.
First an "increased bleed out time" kind of skill. I'd like to know how much time we actually have now, if anyone know this then please post it here. This skill would give you, I reckon a + 20% up to +100% increase in the time going from being killed, to actually bleeding out.
I'd also like a skill that determines how big of an overkill that is needed to kill you beyond ressusitation. I am tired of being killed and even more tired of being instantly bled out, loosing a 230K setup to a free militia BPO nade tossed at my feet exploding 2 sec later. Some sort of boost to how much damage I can take beyiond my hitpoints before instantly bleeding out would be nice.
Let the flaming begin...
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I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
172
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Posted - 2013.01.02 11:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you're down, you should also be able to see how far away the nearest "triage" unit is.
And as for losing clones, I'm pretty sure the ticker doesn't go down until a player spawns. This means that if the ticker is at 1, the players still alive can keep playing until they all die assuming no one chooses to respawn. |
GLOO GLOO
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
217
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Posted - 2013.01.02 11:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
1) Do you know MAG ? When full medic skills, you could heal people at 10 meters, with just a spray, 100% life. It was way too easy (10 m8 on the floor, 1 medic come in, everyone was up in 1 sec), and today on DUST it's way too hard, but not so bad at my point of view. You are saying that you don't want to loose your stuff, and that's the way it needs to be : being a medic is not an easy way to make WP, and so ISK/SP. But, adding to point 4), add a skill that reduce time for healing.
2) +10000 !!! But the kill feed is today hard to read. But add a "personal kill feed" at the bottom of the screen when YOU kill/have been kill, or when YOU heal/being heal (with type of weapon) --> still MAG way 
3) I still compare to MAG : on DUST, I think we have a lots of informations on the HUD, and all can't be always read (a group of people near a CRU/null canon/Suplly/etc... that you're aiming, and all your screen becoming red. Can't read who you're shooting at, and the hitbox shows structures hit AND people hit. Add the ironsight...) Add the distance from a dead m8... Well, it's possible to code this, MAG did it.
4) +1000 to passive medic skills (as said point 1))
Good feedback and suggestions to go foward on medic roles. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.01.02 11:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:If you're down, you should also be able to see how far away the nearest "triage" unit is.
And as for losing clones, I'm pretty sure the ticker doesn't go down until a player spawns. This means that if the ticker is at 1, the players still alive can keep playing until they all die assuming no one chooses to respawn.
I have a feeling that it works like that, but it's still unconfirmed |
Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2013.01.02 11:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Last build i'd agree it was hard to know exactly where to stab the needle but in this build it's quite easy. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
172
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Posted - 2013.01.02 11:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
GLOO GLOO wrote:1) ...You are saying that you don't want to loose your stuff, and that's the way it needs to be : being a medic is not an easy way to make WP, and so ISK/SP...
I make an average of 1000 wp a match, most of the time on the top of the scoreboards.
How? Let me show you the process:
1. Have squad leader set defend order on medic
2. Wait for someone to die
3. Stick needle in them (72)
4. Repair them (30 per burst)
5. Repeat
Obviously you can't always get wp from repairing, but you always get it from reviving, and players die all the time around you. I once got close to 2k wp in a match from a sniper that kept killing the people I was reviving and healing. |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
140
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Posted - 2013.01.02 12:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sorry King I dont mean to say anything out of context just shortening the points so its not so WALLOTEXT.
KingBabar wrote:
1. First off, hitting your target is way too hard, sometimes. It shouldn't be a case of having to stab 12 times in different locations while being under enemy fire.
My suggestion is that they simply fix the mechanics. Alternatively they could just give it a sort of auto aim, much like the AV nades have.
I mentioned having a stabbing motion like the " Commando knife lunge" out of MW2 last month so I completely agree with this.
KingBabar wrote:
2. Some credit where credit is due. I'd like the ressusitations to be shown on the kill feed. We get a notifications when clones die, but not when they're being "shot back to life".
A kill feed indicator is good and bad.. Good because I can finally get some recognition, bad because whos going to be the priority kill now!
KingBabar wrote:
3. Some indications on my screen of where and "when" my dead comrades in arms really are. This is not a problem for the ones in my group, we talk about these things. I'd like to have a distance counter over the Nanite injector symbol that I can see when somebody needs my help. I'd like to know if I have to run 50 meters or 250.
Love this idea, also I would include an elevation stat as well, somemtimes I turn around to find someone to inject only to find they are three floors up.
KingBabar wrote:
4. I'd like two new skills to be added.
First an "increased bleed out time" kind of skill.
I'd also like a skill that determines how big of an overkill that is needed to kill you beyond ressusitation.
Not sure I agree with the increased bleedout timer as it could stagnate some games if everyone is waiting a minute to get a rez, I like the secondary skill but grenades need tweaking anyway, a well cooked and thrown grenade should shred and kill. If im being insta-gibbed with a millitia AR then yes that is BS. |
DON RODIE II
Deep Space Republic
168
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Posted - 2013.01.02 12:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
U should be able to heal yourself with it like on mag |
GLOO GLOO
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
217
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Posted - 2013.01.02 13:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
DON RODIE II wrote:U should be able to heal yourself with it like on mag
You have armor repairer and shield booster modules on your suit, things that you didn't have on MAG. |
Gilbatron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
81
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Posted - 2013.01.02 13:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
i really really want to see throwable ressurection things
throw like a grenade, find a dead body like an AV grenade, ressurect
because, you know, i thought this was the future |
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KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
443
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Posted - 2013.01.02 21:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gilbatron wrote:i really really want to see throwable ressurection things
throw like a grenade, find a dead body like an AV grenade, ressurect
because, you know, i thought this was the future
You know, raisingpeople from the dead instantly with a needle is futuristic enough for me... |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
836
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Your #1 is the only point I disagree with you on. You NEVER revive someone if you are under fire, screw your team-mate at that point, he will just die instantly. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
634
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Posted - 2013.01.02 21:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
I do not like the killfeed idea. It just tells the enemy who killed the one getting rezzed to turn around and do it again. No need to give him that info for free if he's stopped paying attention to the area. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 03:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
to be honest that AV nade thing idea sounds nice. I can imagine that it would home into allied downed clones and revives them. To limit this you should only get 2 homing revive nades at once. And they should be worse then injectors like only giving 15% health back instead of 30%. it should be then like this:
standard=15%
advanced=30%
proto= 45%
it should have a sub specialisation called "remote nano circuacity" and can be trained when you have the normal skill for nano hives/injectors on lvl 3-4 |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2013.01.03 03:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
The FPS Brink had it right.
There, the medic threw a revive injector to the downed ally. The downed ally could then decide if you wanted to use it or bleed out. It wasn't an automatic revive. This helps avoid some idiot "rambo-reviving" you, while the enemy is shooting him, only so that the medic gets killed, and you get killed... again.
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SCAT mania
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
76
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Posted - 2013.01.03 04:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
AMMO REQUEST BUTTON!!........ Plz |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2013.01.03 05:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:The FPS Brink had it right.
There, the medic threw a revive injector to the downed ally. The downed ally could then decide if you wanted to use it or bleed out. It wasn't an automatic revive. This helps avoid some idiot "rambo-reviving" you, while the enemy is shooting him, only so that the medic gets killed, and you get killed... again.
Actually Brink had a lot of things right,believe it or not.It's just that a lot of people didn't bother to get past the super harsh first week of the technical issue of the game.
There are a lot of things that Dust really needs to poach from other games,and I don't know why I didn't think of the way Brink revives but it's actually the best way to do it.
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Enji Elric
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
176
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Posted - 2013.01.03 05:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
#1 you shouldnt rez people under fire, you know this, you played mag for long time... NO RAMBO REZZING
#2 No we don't need to clutter the screen anymore than it is
#3 GOOD IDEA I want this
#4 no we don't need extra skills so someone can run half-way across the map just to rez someone. that takes away from the idea of immediate Combat Lifesavers or nearby Triage... I don't need to kill someone and have their buddy run to a supply depot change to a logi suit and run back to rez someone
let them die, lose their isk, Keep the economy strong by people continuing to use it.
But I do agree that getting blown away by militia anything is BS I am all for a MLT Nerf. there is no reason to have the same power as STD gear, yes I understand that the CPU/PG req. is different and can cause people to by STD gear but I know of people who use MLT gear and they have 4mil + SP used...
If your sqd is good enough and your playing right you can have games where you go 20/3 and I believe you are getting adequate use of your suits... and with people running propper squads ( 1 assualt- 1 logi- 1 heavy- 1 etc) this isnt an issue |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
443
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Posted - 2013.01.03 07:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
First off, there seems to be some confusion. I didn't really mean to suggest that we have "medkit nades", I merely wanted the needle to be an insta-hit, as long as you are within range. A sort of homing needle if you want. Today I sometimes pick people up 5 metres from their actual body, so unless this gets fixed I really don't see any problem with automatically hitting my friend even though I'm not actually pressing the needle into his or hers body. Anything beats running aroun in circles frantically tapping R2...
And yes, I come from MAG and I do agree that it was a little too much sentered around the medkit. I had some over 20 000 people rezzed in MAG so I do know what I'm doing. When I pick up someone up in the middle of a firefight just know that I know what I'm doing. Its a calulated risk. I use the 80% medkit, for starters, and I'm not trying to pick people up just so that they'll die again, that would be pointless. Remember that as a medic you're very exposed for enemy fire when picking someone else up and I don't wanna kill myself for some measily 60 WP.
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TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2013.01.03 07:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Your #1 is the only point I disagree with you on. You NEVER revive someone if you are under fire, screw your team-mate at that point, he will just die instantly.
My rule of thumb is clear the area first.
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GM Unicorn
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
320
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Posted - 2013.01.03 14:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Moved in the appropriate section :) |
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Tupni
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.01.03 17:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd like injectors to have buffs, stronger injectors give the revived a short period of elevated defense thanks to an excess of passively present nanites or something. As is I only revive people who aren't in a line of fire with a militia injector and get that extra triage XP.
Oh, stronger revives giving more XP (and lessers giving less than the current amount) would also be nifty and push for upwards mobility.
About OP's bleedout concept, (a skill that makes the dying endure longer, less likely to insta-death), instead of another skill, tie it into
>Dropsuit Command
>>Endurance/Vigour
And give less of a bonus from that stat.
Oh, and how about if you've levelled in mobility, when bleeding out you can crawl? The skill is pretty dull as is anyway, it'd add a cool element, and in theory makes sense.
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Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2013.01.03 18:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Some good suggestions. A better way to know where to stab or making the stab area larger would be great. I still run into glitches where you have to stab at spots where a person is not due to vehicle run overs or odd deaths. Even a simple distance to body when injector is up would help a ton. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2013.01.04 08:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you don't know where to stick the needle?
It's always at the needle/bleedout icon, not their corpse. Ignore the corpse! Needle icon means STAB HERE FOR LIFE :)
As far as what the OP asked for "You should just be able to hit r1 when in range" It's already like that. The range is pretty much point blank, but you should get a popup telling you to hit the button to revive, when you are next to someone you can revive. I don't want to see an increase to range for this, though. I'm highly opposed to the concept of revives that can be used without putting you in the direct line of fire of the guy who killed your friend (You should always kill or distract before you revive anyways)
The problem there is that the revive system doesn't play nice with the ragdoll system. The revive point and the final resting place of a corpse after the ragdoll aren't always the same. This is much more pronounced with vehicle or explosion kills.
As far as how long the bleedout is : 30 seconds. Always 30s unless someone chooses to die or someone forces them to. (It's very iffy to force them to bleedout after they are down with guns. But I've noticed Nova Knives do it 98% of the time on the first shot.
Personally, I'd rather see a way for someone with an injector to directly let someone know they are on the way (or attempting to be) and having it show up on the person's screen that "(Playername) is coming to your aid!" as opposed to saying "A triage unit is nearby!" and listing the distance. You could have a dude with a nanite injector standing right on top of you with no intention of saving you. Happens all the time! Maybe hitting circle while looking at a corpse will send that message.
As far as bleedouts go, mass drivers, grenades, the standard melee, and forge guns are really the only thing that can unfailingly render someone unable to be revived. Other weapons can sometimes do this with a headshot, but that doesn't seem proper to me. I'd prefer an overkill system, but it doesn't seem to be the case. If it's intended to be that way, it's definitely not working. Personally, I'd prefer that it was much easier to identify when someone is in 'bleedout', and to forcibly get them out of it. Right now, the visual indication for a hostile corpse is that if it still has color and isn't completely gray they can be revived. Though, while sometimes possible you can't normally shoot their corpse to end their bleedout, because of the same reason why injector location aren't always on the corpse. Hostile people can't see that icon though, so they have no idea where to shoot and usually don't bother.
People argue that people "aren't really dead" when they can be revived. I'd prefer not getting the kill at all until they are bled out, one way or another. If this was the case though, they would first need to fix the bug about the corpse location, and they would need to make it far more visible that the person is not dead, but disabled/crippled. As much as people like to hate on CoD, Their 'second chance' perk was really the best implementation of revives I've seen in any game. The person is still visibly alive and easily finished off. I'm not a fan of the person being able to shoot in that state though, putting someone down should render them helpless with the same screen we have now, but have them visibly twitching or leaning up or so when being seen by other players.. This also relates to the clone count. Someone gets a death on their stats and the enemy gets a kill even if the person is revived, but if they do get revived the clone count does not diminish. This is horribly broken and it's actually pretty easy to ***** stats this way. If someone gets revived there should be no kill or death stats accumulated, because they didn't bother to finish their prey off. If someone else forces the bleedout, they should get the assist and the person who put them down initially should get the kill.
Alternatively, CCP could do what I've been suggesting for nearly 10 months since they first threw the idea around, which is removing revives entirely from the game.
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