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Deveshi
WarRavens
144
   |
Posted - 2013.01.01 04:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
The swarm launcher already has so many draw backs:
- Cannot defend against infanty without a secondary weapon.
- Has pitiful damage compared to the forge gun.
- Tracking is appauling.
- 6 rounds of ammo on an advanced version!
At the very least you could allow us to be able to hit something without the need to stand right in front of it! The swarm launch is designed to be carried by light infancy, not heavies, so why such the crappy range?
In a skirmish match the map usually extends about a kilometer in length so increasing the range of the swarm launcher to 300m won't exactly be game breaking and it might mean that my missiles which do s**t all damage might actually be able to hit their target so they can inflict s**t all damage.
This would be a good start. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 06:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your argument and reason is outstanding... go back to school! |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 07:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Deveshi wrote:The swarm launcher already has so many draw backs:
- Cannot defend against infanty without a secondary weapon.
- Has pitiful damage compared to the forge gun.
- Tracking is appauling.
- 6 rounds of ammo on an advanced version!
At the very least you could allow us to be able to hit something without the need to stand right in front of it! The swarm launch is designed to be carried by light infancy, not heavies, so why such the crappy range?
In a skirmish match the map usually extends about a kilometer in length so increasing the range of the swarm launcher to 300m won't exactly be game breaking and it might mean that my missiles which do s**t all damage might actually be able to hit their target so they can inflict s**t all damage.
This would be a good start. I'll add +1 on two conditions, range boost is advanced/proto/officer ONLY, and there is never a hint of making the militia swarms shoot further. in fact dropping them back to 200 is probably a good compromise.
More than happy with your input, I'd go one further to suggest that missile range could be a seperate skill all together as it is in Eve over and above the sharpshooting skills (can anyone confirm if the sharpshooting skill affects missiles?). Other skills could effect attributes such as lock on time.
Granted, some people may be appauled at this idea, but as it stands Dust only consists of 100 skills. Dust no being your average FPS has its skills at its core so future development in this area is a unavoidable. I would like to see more niche specific skills such as the above to add more diversity and individuality into Dust. If you want to run around with the rest of 'jack of all trades' Dust is not the game for you! |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 12:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Advantages of a Swarm Launcher:
+Doesn't Require Fatboy Suit
+Never Misses, especially useful against Dropships
+Extra Damage against Armor
Advantages of a Forge Gun:
+Slightly more damage against Shields
Yep. Forge Gun is totally overpowered compared to the Swarm Launcher. Except it isn't.
Swarm Launcher fires up to four missiles at once, each can deal 300 damage. Forge Gun fires one round and it can deal 1200 damage. On paper, it ends up being the same, but Forge Guns don't fire homing missiles.
The missiles also have to take into account travel time and angular velocity as these dramatically effect the overall displacement of the missiles in relation to the target.
In English that means that missiles are a lot harder to use that your FG even if they are locking because your missiles are chasing a moving target which usually isnt moving in a straight line. On top of that the user has to predict the flight path of the missiles and an estimated trajectory of the target to ensure the route is not obstructed.
In addition the FG can target *sweet spots* on vehicles as opposed to the general splatter you get from missiles. You are also assuming that once you have fired, all of your missiles will either hit the target or not; however, this is rarely the case and only a couple of the missiles will actually make it to the target.
So
is asking for 50 odd more meters really that bad?
EDIT:
Ulysses Knapse wrote:
+Never Misses, especially useful against Dropships
= bo***cks |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Deveshi wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:
+Never Misses, especially useful against Dropships
= bo***cks No, I'm right. It never misses. Until acted upon by an external force. Just like motion.
You've just confirmed my statement for me.
EDIT:
I would also like to say that they player has no control over the trajectory of the missiles. Regarless of which direction you aim, the missiles will do their own thing... usually hitting a wall. Adding 50m to their range will not stop this. MIssiles will still be dumb as **** they will just be dumb or a second or 2 longer. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Deveshi wrote:The swarm launcher already has so many draw backs:
- Cannot defend against infanty without a secondary weapon.
- Has pitiful damage compared to the forge gun.
- Tracking is appauling.
- 6 rounds of ammo on an advanced version!
At the very least you could allow us to be able to hit something without the need to stand right in front of it! The swarm launch is designed to be carried by light infancy, not heavies, so why such the crappy range?
In a skirmish match the map usually extends about a kilometer in length so increasing the range of the swarm launcher to 300m won't exactly be game breaking and it might mean that my missiles which do s**t all damage might actually be able to hit their target so they can inflict s**t all damage.
This would be a good start. Pure BS all day long Its a primary weapon for taking out vehicles its why its a light weapon so you can fit on a decent sidearm Pitiful damage? both milita SL and FG do 1200 damage off the bat without any damage mods or skills taken into account and 30% more damage against armor Tracking is bad? really so locking on through cover then jumping while firing so you can stay behind the hill and knowing that the missiles will bend around cover to hit that HAV isnt good enough for you? tbh SL is OP and badly broken if you want tracking to be fixed then missiles shouldnt bend around mountains to hit HAVs like they do now instead they should hit the mountain instead 6 round at what 5missiles each causing about 1500 damage per volley? that is enough to take out any top tank
Did you just copy and paste what the previous guy said? |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
NovaShadowStorm wrote:I love my swarm launcher but I'll have to agree with the rest you're asking for too much. Fact is Swarms hit just fractionally less hard than FG's but then again are far more versatile than FG's. Not needing a heavy suit is the biggest one, also don't have to have a perfect LOS to fire, yes they do home terribly this build but that was to fix the exploding into walls thing that happened when you tried to fire swarms in previous builds. I manage to kill tanks just fine with my Advanced Swarm. Takes a bit of work but I find Med range best and more often than not at that range all my missiles hit. At that range enemy vehicles don't have too much time to escape around bends that my swarms can't follow. If you want a long range AV weapon stick to the FG. Though I wouldn't mind A swarm that sacrificed clip space for extra ammo it is annoying that should a few shots miss/explode on walls that you have nothing elft in the tank and if you've already dropped all your nano hives you have to run looking for one.
Good, someone with some discussion to bring to the table.
I appreciate that not using a fatman suit is a large advantage over the FB; however, another reason for this suggestion is that it acts as the only counter to the afterburner of dropships.
Now, thus far I have only seen one person use a dropship correctly with an afterburner and this person obviously was an Eve player because they understood the principle of a speed tank as opposed to the ****** buffer tank most people are using. It will not be long before others cotton on to the effectivity of a dropship speed tank and once this happens your SL will NEVER hit a drop ship unless you are very lucky with your positioning and have managed to flank the dropship firing into the direction of the oncoming ship.
Adding a further 50m to the swarm launcher will mean that speed tanked drop ships will have to maneuver to some degree as well as using speed to counter the missiles. As it stands an AB dropship can outrun missiles in a straight line rendering it unless, and if you think your going to hit that dropship with a forge gun good luck to you.
Your ammo suggestion is a nice idea and I appreciate where you are coming from. Unfortunately, this doesnt address this speed tank problem. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Deveshi wrote:The swarm launcher already has so many draw backs:
- Cannot defend against infanty without a secondary weapon.
- Has pitiful damage compared to the forge gun.
- Tracking is appauling.
- 6 rounds of ammo on an advanced version!
At the very least you could allow us to be able to hit something without the need to stand right in front of it! The swarm launch is designed to be carried by light infancy, not heavies, so why such the crappy range?
In a skirmish match the map usually extends about a kilometer in length so increasing the range of the swarm launcher to 300m won't exactly be game breaking and it might mean that my missiles which do s**t all damage might actually be able to hit their target so they can inflict s**t all damage.
This would be a good start. I'll add +1 on two conditions, range boost is advanced/proto/officer ONLY, and there is never a hint of making the militia swarms shoot further. in fact dropping them back to 200 is probably a good compromise.
Sounds good to me. I would also think it fair to add missile range as an additional skill over and above sharpshooter (btw can we confirm if sharpshooter does or does not affect missiles?)
This would also add to the number of skills and promote specialization.
I would also like add that I am not asking for missiles to travel from 1 side of the map to the other. I am only asking for another 50m. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 21:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Deveshi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Deveshi wrote:The swarm launcher already has so many draw backs:
- Cannot defend against infanty without a secondary weapon.
- Has pitiful damage compared to the forge gun.
- Tracking is appauling.
- 6 rounds of ammo on an advanced version!
At the very least you could allow us to be able to hit something without the need to stand right in front of it! The swarm launch is designed to be carried by light infancy, not heavies, so why such the crappy range?
In a skirmish match the map usually extends about a kilometer in length so increasing the range of the swarm launcher to 300m won't exactly be game breaking and it might mean that my missiles which do s**t all damage might actually be able to hit their target so they can inflict s**t all damage.
This would be a good start. Pure BS all day long Its a primary weapon for taking out vehicles its why its a light weapon so you can fit on a decent sidearm Pitiful damage? both milita SL and FG do 1200 damage off the bat without any damage mods or skills taken into account and 30% more damage against armor Tracking is bad? really so locking on through cover then jumping while firing so you can stay behind the hill and knowing that the missiles will bend around cover to hit that HAV isnt good enough for you? tbh SL is OP and badly broken if you want tracking to be fixed then missiles shouldnt bend around mountains to hit HAVs like they do now instead they should hit the mountain instead 6 round at what 5missiles each causing about 1500 damage per volley? that is enough to take out any top tank Did you just copy and paste what the previous guy said? Doesnt even counter what i said, seems that OP realises what i said is true and correct thus ther is no counter
Because you essentially wrote the same as the guy before which I have already responded to. Learn to read and come back when you have something further to add of relevance. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
You've gone off topic.
Thead moved to this topic which also concerns the currently irrelvent skill of SL damage radius and its replacement with a range bonus. |
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Deveshi
WarRavens
144
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Posted - 2013.01.03 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Read the new topic. Swarm launchers need to be buffed in some fashion because there is currently an unused skill unlike any other weapon. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 22:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is no longer a question of just buffing the SL just because.
Every operation skill gives a bonus to the weapon, every proficiency skill gives a bonus to the weapon. Currently the operation skill of the SL means nothing.
The other thing I don't understand is where people keep saying that once the swarm launcher is fired it will so x amount of damage. This is assuming that the missiles hit their target, a factor beyond the control of the user which is not the case of the FG (where u point it, it shoots). |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 22:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:I think they should allow swarms to be used from the MCC or the spawn. If you dont feel like aiming, they should allow you to aim and lock through the map. Similar to the way you call in a Precision strike. They should also double the damage for it and give you 500 WP for taking out a tank and 250 WP for taking out a LAV. They should also allow you to use it as a MD with 200 Splash damage over 6 meters. Even if thats not good enough, they should make a heavy version of it which should work as a HMG shooting rockets at highspeed.
You used to be able to fire dumb missiles in a previous build. This was taken out because the swarm launcher just became the n00b tube of Dust. This was not the intended use of the weapon and was thus removed. |
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