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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:59:00 - [1] - Quote Dust 514 was this grand idea to marry MMO, FPS, RPG, and RTS elements together. While MMO department is a road map that will take another two or more years to fully qualify in, nearly the same time as RTS elements are also thrown in as well which leaves us with the RPG and FPS elements to deal with. Now we are at a strange cross roads where competitive shooter is on one hand and RPG elements are on the other. Elements from one wouldn't do well in the ensuing child in this marriage. While some games have done a wonderful job of the marriage in a multiplier verses environment it can be sometimes frustration where skill beats exp points or vice versa. Dust however has special catering to emphasize the bold, the smart, the skillful or deceitful because that is the environment eve online calls for so hand holding is out of the question as well as various other factors from either side of this marriage. Bad elements to take from an RPG for the Dust 514 environment would be like FPS players don't want Dice Roll to Hit - would be extremely bad case of hand holding and breaks the realism entire skill of the player aspect entirely. Where as RPG players don't want Lack of Progression in Gear/Character Power - it sort of kills the entire reason to develop and build the characters up. However as it stands right now FPS shooters are crying over Proto-gear 'ROFL stomping pubs'. Or how new players 'Don't have a chance.' Or having 'widely varied gear levels =/= competitive shooter.' Previously many builds ago, I once envied Prototype gear. Not only did I fear it, I wanted one myself. I was invigorated to work my skill sets up to get not only prototype level but making sure I got the best bang for the buck once I got there. I was literally excited over gaining power with every module's access level unlocked to me. I was even more exciting getting better with making cheaper fits with various meta levels to be in budget of the battle. Get better being on the field and earning my keep and not burdening my losses entirely on my limited budget earnings. Even more I was excited for the future of dust 514. Having the entire war play out like a real one would, With logistics (as in making sure I have a body at the front lines to fight with) structure, intel structure, and combined navy/army command structure. Now a days I see someone in prototype gear and scoff down them as if they were milita scrubs with my milita AR, to be honest I never notice any difference in how fast they die, I haven't been killed by a prototype weapon in weeks, and lately it sees more people are down shifting from the Advanced level gear and back to basic gear. I have no longer the desire to goto prototype level for the simple fact that its no longer a REWARD but inversely its a PUNISHMENT. While HP suit flattening was a good thing in 'leveling the playing field' as prototype gear from that era could have been made 'invincible' from those not strong enough to break the tank. However weapon flattening (where as weapon curving did not happen) has made this game nearly undesirable progression in gear beyond metalevel 1/0. We need to put in the fear of high level gear again, maybe not as bad as it was during E3 and Uprising builds, For those of you arguing against multiple gear levels crimping competition style. You need to look at the Eve Online Open which was a seriously highly unrestricted competition in eve online for 10,000 USD in prizes. Many teams not only signed up but got Eve online Corporate or Allaince SPONSORS to help pay for their ship equipment and despite sponsorship the best gear in the game did not save many of these teams or their ships they've lost during the tournament. I mean how much more competitive can you get when you and your corp becomes an in game franchise or something? Teams in the real world have such sponsors and ownership why cant a virtual one be similar? where wallets are thrown in to help promote and ensure success of a team? I do not want to see this game resorting to 'Super Master Chief Sargent Chief Master of the Army" ranking system for the only RPG element where achieving max level awarded you the most lamest but most recognized and gold plated gun in the game ever. I want to choose how I grow, How I develop, how I get better in gear, exp, and skills, that's the RPG elements I need to have in Dust 514 while maintaining player skill over-coming all factors. While Dust 514 is in its early stages this is one of the things that made dust 514 interesting with what little it did have. Maybe one day well return back to that point when more gear, such as tech 2 and tech 3 come out. do we get the sense of progression again. but I rather have it sooner than later.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:27:00 - [2] - Quote Here's the thing though mitt, in previous builds a proto-suit would die nearly as fast to focused fire, also the proto suit stuck out like a sore thumb everybody already knew to shoot that guy first as a squad. Also in the end FPS skills will still override RPG portion, its just not good for the long life span to not have any RPG at all. After all everyone else in this galaxy has RPG constraints as well and in an age of MMOs and not shooters you want people to be always clambering for the next big thing, when it may be a new shiny rifle or a new shiny tank. Run out of things to go for and you run out of people. This is what killed Planetside 1 litterally and just about every major mmo that has tried to compete against world of warcraft. As one reason to increase the cap and smooth out the curve is to encourage people to go for it. to stock pile the best stuff and to use it when it really counts. Right now as it stands I can and will show up in militia gear to a corp match and **** off people who showed up in proto. Another reason, OFFICER gear was barely touched and they will tear though people like protos did back in e3 today. Also to counter point Black Ops 2 and Halo 4 is very notoriously close to dust 514's current progression.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:49:00 - [3] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: doesnt really help when u have a squad of the old buffed up suits and tbqh with ppl actually wanting to roll pubs with full teams then u will also soon have full teams with full old build buffed proto gear. Please tell me how a newer guy/squad/team is suppose to focus fire when an entire/squad/team is in the gear and doin the same to them. Either way it makes no difference to me I had proto suits early build, game felt alot easier back then imo because the ppl that couldnt fund it had to gear down so i was constantly at a big advantage over these peeps. Ppl want to feel their upgrades are worth it thats kool but is buffing back to the ridiculous lvls of old build really the solution? mixing a FPS and RPG ur gonna run into these problems. DUST is an FPS 1st and foremost so imo the FPS side of the game needs to take preference over the others and make sure its done right and balanced. CCP has a tough task on their hands tbh. Even back then I was milita locking myself and still pwning protos just I had to be more careful about getting shot back then where as now I almost ignore the fact they're shooting at me and try to out gun them now. Now imagine if I wasn't such a lone wolf how much more deadlier I could have been. The bottom line a player's own skill (in which in this game I had to develop for) will override any RPG element just about. I will consent going that going back to E3 build levels would be a very bad idea however current status on some modules and most weapons are not gutting it. As some one mentioned earlier right now proto-suits have no place to exist at the very moment there is no higher calling of saving the best for the worst. One day it will come and you would want to bring out the very absolute best gear possible because the fight you are about to march into is going to determine if you have a corporation the very next day. That a defeat would do irreversible damage to your organization and when you have a bunch of folks who think milita is going to cut it because they had no desire to go proto because of how lame it was is pitted against equally skilled players who spent an empires ransom to take your planet away from you and are showing up in OFFICER Gear. Also as this game progresses there will be less and less FPS elements in this game and more and more World Elements being added in which you have to RP though in a way. Market, Inventory, Industry, Resourcing, Empire Management, Tactical Command, Strategic Command, Operational Command, Theatrical Command, Military Strategy, Commercialization, Propaganda, Diplomacy, Intel, Counter Intel, Supply chains. Many of these things cannot and will not be soultioned by shooting a guy in the face. CCP needs to get Faction Warfare out the door soon that would help smooth many things up as that will become the new Stomping grounds and ego measuring stick and encourage proto-fitters to go fight there where the pay is much better vs the high sec match where if they die once or twice they lose out.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 23:02:00 - [4] - Quote Well keeping the entire RPG in the SP bottle is not a good idea. I can tell you this as an eve player who has just about mastered all tech 1 gear and is about less than a year way from capping out every sub capital tech 2 and tech 3 item in the game (yes I am old in eve). There is also the fun notion that there are somethings that does not give a damn about how well geared you were right before it killed you. Orbital strikes, LAV bottoms, Tank Treads, Tank Cannon ect ect. In eve I am constantly awed by better gear, means of making isk and various performance tweaking, no matter how well SP I can get I cannot and may not ever match any of the other people I meet because of RP and RPG elements. For example I now have a reputation of a being rather trustworthy person and that is probably more expensive than some of the biggest ships in eve and I am not about to sink that for anything. Choices I have made shaped the star ship captain I am today. Had I been thrown into a Rifter in my early days and some one threw me into a pvp environment and walked me though it I would probably have been much more of a ferocious sort of person worthy of a much higher bounty. Because I never even knew what a Rifter was for ... 6 months(military deployment), never got owned, didn't know cruisers existed I had an extremely hard time starting up in eve. Then when I finally got owned I didn't understand as to why I did. Took 2 years of living in null sec space to fix this. Players need exposure to gear. they need to understand modules not only exists but they are rather functional and change dynamics of a fight entirely. There isn't anything that dynamic about proto-suits. In the end it should not frustrate newer players but inspire them to start getting gear goals for themselves. As for gear costs/effect I would like a level where Type Number and Alphas are considered affordable for generic every day BS and dying while prototype level gear and above is only used when losing is not an option. As for the fuller scope of things Prototype gear should be matching Tech 2 performance but tech 2 is much cheaper to produce however its skill intensive and requires massive infrastructure to make it so. Also tech 2 is a worlds beyond what GP tech 1 does as Tech 2 is specializing in very specific goals of the technology. As it stands now the modules have also gotten squished so bad that stacking penalties are no longer being registered when the displayed number is rounded.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 23:08:00 - [5] - Quote In a side note about all this. I don't want to answer a rookie's question as to "Why nobody wants to use proto-gear" with "Don't bother even wearing it"
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 23:53:00 - [6] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Iron Wolf, I'm guessing you know about suit variations coming up (or maybe not, I heard it as a rumor). If suit usage could progress into variations, with more versatile options, then this problem would be solved. Higher end suits wouldn't dominate, but would offer and open up a multitude of better options. Yes I know about the 'tech 2 suits' the problem is thats' a whole nother ball park. Prototype is supposed to be the lower skill point counter against 'tech 2 suits.' But at the way things are being squashed now. A milita suit can take out a tech 2 suit with just as much impunity. Which in the end frustrates the SP Jarred portion of the RPG.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 23:57:00 - [7] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Baal Roo wrote: I've been assuming all this time that eventually proto gear will be mid-level stuff once the scope of the game widens. When low and null get introduced, there will he a lot more room for wider variances in gear. Surely CCP will have to keep releasing more powerful gear to give us something to work towards, considering how fast we gain SP (and with so many clamoring for even FASTER SP gains). I agree. Just take a look at Eve Online. Back when it was released in 2003, Tech 2 ships never existed. There were no Tier 3 Battlecruisers nor Tech 3 Strategic Cruisers. Exhumers didn't exist back then and thus Battleships were the main mining vessels of the day. Titans didn't exist and Dreadnaughts were hardly a thought and once considered only as haulers at the time. Today, Eve Online has a more varied list of ship classes including new Destroyers, repurposed exhumers and barges, and then some. Incursions never existed. Faction Warfare didn't come out until the Empyrean Age Expansion and later overhauled and polished during the Inferno/Retribution Expansion. I'm pretty sure Dust 514 will start off basic and then slowly expand and get more interesting over time. Kind of like aging wine made in France. FPS on PS3 will not grow like EvE did, especially not if the PS4 is announced and a port would take time. Still Dust 514 has the opportunity with 2 expansions planned a year with near bimonthly patches comming out for adjustments fixes and balance issues. As for the Meta lvl 5, its near top of the line in standard gear in eve online, to the point its more expensive than the tech 2 counter parts because of lack of skill requirements. Also to further increase the where is the RPG discussion. Why is there such a seemingly increasing protest against PVE? Not everyone plays a shooter for its multiplayer, in my case I never played GoW multiplayer ever. I played it for the story. Where as in Call of Duty I play it for multiplayer alone, single player can do die in a fire. PVE is also a team building exercise, drones are not something you'll be soloing especially when some are as big and tough as tanks are and they are reactive to player tactics (IE if you deploy a tank they will swarm anti-vehicle suicide drones after you). This may also be dust 514's clever way to have people go 'mine' for materials that are required to construct the more complicated blueprints in dust 514.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.30 23:59:00 - [8] - Quote I do find it very cool however when some one in IRC comes into the channel and tells us their experience with their newest strange fit that oddly works.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:04:00 - [9] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: I think that better matchmaking would solve most of the problems you had with proto versus militia in the old builds. If you faced equally geared competition in high sec matchmaking, then it would be more forgivable to have proto gear be more powerful and better. Where we run into trouble is that new players were thrown against the proto players of old. The nerfs kind of eliminated that problem but made less incentive to upgrade. So, if we fix matchmaking, then we can buff back the proto Heavies to over 1200 eHP. We wouldn't have to worry about turning new players off, and of course in low and null sec anything goes, but for high sec, keeping people ranked based on the level of gear (probably determined by the average skill levels they have in whatever their respective skills are). The time to do that would be now, before open beta so we can make sure matchmaking works as intended and is ready for the masses. Thoughts? It would help out a small bit but the bigger hope is the guns will follow the money they're capable of winning in. Null Sec Conquest, Low Sec Faction Warfare, Highsec Training grounds, and Player controlled betting Arenas. If the high sec battle finder was a bit smarter on sorting out people based on their SP levels modified by their KDR it would not be so bad as well. However I don't think New Eden would go that route of 'artificial bantering'
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:20:00 - [10] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: Does anyone else out there not want DUST to be a "competitive shooter"? I don't mean I don't want competition; I mean I don't want this to forego fun gameplay to make it appeal to the "competitive" crowd who wants everything to be perfectly balanced and fair. I've run into these people in other games and they basically seem to want to suck the fun out of everything to make it "competitive". So if it comes to a choice between RPG elements and consistency with the EVE universe over "competitive" suitability, I'd prefer the former any day. Also in before "you don't like competition just because you suck so bad at this game". I can already see it coming. Hence Arena Game play that's supposed to be in the first expansion. Also having a tiered item selection adds to the competition element as it now becomes a who can fit their suits the best to match their skills. I am not sure if you guys done the math but even at max skills you can't full proto a few of the suits out in various likable configurations. While some would argue that a competitive shooter would be more like counter strike where the entire game is flat (and imo boring) The way I see dust being competitive would be more akin to NASCAR or Grand Tours racing. You have a myrad selection of parts (like our modules), you have limits such as weight and safety (CPU and Grid in our case) then at the seat you have the driver (player's own skill) You want the best parts in the world? get sponsors, save up money, stockpile. You want ot he best player skills in the world? train train train plan train. Don't have the isk? get a sponsor, let him foot the bill for the gear, in return he gets free advertising and some dibbs on the stuff you win. Having gear levels that somewhat matter would also create 'competition' the need to get better in one way or another. When If first started back in the old builds I had a difficult time taking out protos, at the near end of that build with proto armageddeon I was taking the same protos out with just my militia fits.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:34:00 - [11] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Shiro Mokuzan wrote: Does anyone else out there not want DUST to be a "competitive shooter"? I don't mean I don't want competition; I mean I don't want this to forego fun gameplay to make it appeal to the "competitive" crowd who wants everything to be perfectly balanced and fair. I've run into these people in other games and they basically seem to want to suck the fun out of everything to make it "competitive". So if it comes to a choice between RPG elements and consistency with the EVE universe over "competitive" suitability, I'd prefer the former any day. Also in before "you don't like competition just because you suck so bad at this game". I can already see it coming. Dunno what to say as you have 2 distinct audiences, you have the eve crowd who want every thing as complex and unforgiveing as possible. Then you have the fps crowd who want a fun and fluid balanced shooter and ccp cant decide which camp they are in and niether crowd is willing to give an inch hence the game cant decide what it is I have to agree this is the largest source of problems perceived generating. But when FPS shooters say I want customized guns I want perks and the sorts they stepping towards that level of complexity anyways. Its a bit oxymoronous.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:36:00 - [12] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: Were there ever Rocket Propelled Grenades in this game? I thought the RPG elements where the fact that a militia weapon can do more damage than a standard or advanced because the player has put more SP into it? And the fact that you can modify your suits to best fit your needs? Ask the Minmatar they had such launcher.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 00:57:00 - [13] - Quote well call of duty black ops 2 has it already in the choose your level unlock, which is why is an example close to dust 514s you get skill points nad you spend it on how you decide to gorw your character.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:06:00 - [14] - Quote The critical part about needing the RPG portion is to make it more unique away from the other lobby shooters that do populate many of the console platform. The faster we get to conquest mode or even faction warfare mode the more we separate ourselves from standard multiplayer shooter to mmo shooter.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:09:00 - [15] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: well call of duty black ops 2 has it already in the choose your level unlock, which is why is an example close to dust 514s you get skill points nad you spend it on how you decide to gorw your character. Cant say never played the game , but you have to see where I am coming from in that most fps's to date your choice is limited by your level and not left wide open for you. Not saying either is bad just that it's a bit strange for an fps. Well halo 4 has a similar feature but the points awarded are a bit... well at random levels none the less its up to the player to pick or choose how they want to develop 'their spartan' however with halo the game is extremely flat (although fun the game is a well good mix) where as black ops 2 is more closer to dust 514's with extremism (ie designing a suit towards one sole purpose and getting very good at it) and chances are this is going to be very standard FPS feature in the future. Dust 514's skill per unlock progression is no longer a unique concept. What makes ours still unique that our skills will eventually induce or already has induced bonuses for skilling them up.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:12:00 - [16] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Plus 1 Wolf .I agree with you bud but ...dont get amnesia CODEX was .....bad.Retribution or the build before CODEX what ever the hell its name was....I would play 2 matches and it would freeze....it was so bad with bugs I thought it was gonna brick my PS3.Chromosome is way better the game isnt clipping,hardly lagging,it feels more fluid there working on your characters movement let them fix the FPS aspects of the game....I dont want to be losing Proto gear because of rubber banding lag spike when Im running a PVE mission against drones...... I whole hear-tingly agree that current build is so much more stable and on no factor am going to disagree. Just item stats are a bit... interesting now verses back when. I have yet to crash this build. That has been very extremely good news so far. Now with aim fixed and gunplay improved can you imagine how much higher my kdr has gone up when I am not adjusting or screwing around with testing? <^-^>
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:20:00 - [17] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The critical part about needing the RPG portion is to make it more unique away from the other lobby shooters that do populate many of the console platform. The faster we get to conquest mode or even faction warfare mode the more we separate ourselves from standard multiplayer shooter to mmo shooter. And there lies the problem you risk alienating the fps crowd who are used to how things are done mainstream, you end up running the risk that this will turn into a niche game that only a few will want to invest time in. As i said previously you have 2 different crowds how you pull them together and keep both happy is 1 big head ache. If this was a pc game I could see it working but on console ccp have there work cut out for them Eve Online alienates a lot of mmo players too. to the point we ruin MMO for most people who decide to play it a bit longer. Dust 514 is going places no shooter wants to go. We will be having matches in the future that will have impact, and a resounding, resonating, effect that will alter course the history of not just one game but TWO games. To go back to status quo of play a match and have a match mean nothing is what gets just about every other shooter wanna-be out there killed these days. FPS genre is getting old with annual releases of games now to the point is becoming the same regurgitated crud from last year no wonder why you guys are so happy to shovel out 60 -120 bucks a year for the newest battlefield and call of duty. Dust 514 is supposed to be a first person war game. War. Not a battle but an entire sci-fi war simulator. Dust 514 is not designed to compete against call of duty or battlefield. Its designed to create a new environment where a shooter player can step in, and be something more than a nameless soldier, and when you like it or not, characters are likely going to be forced to join up in these 'epic crusades' just to remain 'competitive' because after all when a faction showers their side with Army Gear instead of civilian try-hard gear we are all currently using players may want a piece of that. and from there you are going to start picking sides. Imagine playing nuketown in one match, you lose and the nuke goes off. Next time you go there everyone has to be in rad suits because the place is a pile of ashes.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:39:00 - [18] - Quote I wouldn't want an average FPS player in my battalion, I want people who know how to adapt or die trying.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 01:45:00 - [19] - Quote Essentially I want Dust players in the end. I don't care for their backgrounds as much as where they are heading to.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 02:27:00 - [20] - Quote FPS games I've played. Metro Arma Ghost Recon 1, 2, FW Rainbow Six America's Army Global Agenda Doom 1 2 and 3 Wolfenstien 3D (not 1 and 2 they where platformers) Spear of Destiny, and the 2002 release of wolfenstien? COD 1, BR1, COD 2, COD 3, COD 4 MW1, COD WAW, MW2, BLOPs, MW3, BLOPs2 Battlefield 1942, 2142, 2, 3 (I have been permanently banned from this game series btw) Painkiller Hexen Decent 1, 2, 3 Halo 1, 2, 3, 4, ODST Team Fortress 2 Portal 1,2 Half Life 2, + ep 1 & 2 Quake II, III Medal of Honor Counter-strike UT 2001, 2002 and UT 2004?(the one with campaign mode and story explaining how they can die and re spawn) Planet Side 1 and 2 List goes on and if you want an extremely long list I can give you a **** list on every game here. Why that game sucked and what that game could have done better. There has not been any successful FPS has managed to be mainstay by copying another shooter entirely in formula, story or theory of approach to appeal. Dust 514 needs to focus on its goals on being Dust 514, this is not counter strike, not battlefield not halo or call of duty. It needs to only provide more than enough familiarity that any player from any of the mentioned shooters above can step into this game board and have a good idea how to start running and gunning into a better position. This game could be 'dumbed' much further but I am afraid if that is done then not only gear gets negated but player's own skills get negated entirely. People still complain about the AR despite having Ironsights on them, range reduced, damaged decreased, all because they probably don't know how to shoot the damn things. Thus the gearing RPG element needs to be in and significant enough to be felt, awed, and inspiring to keep players around in this generation of Effort = Reward and Gratification. It shouldn't be there to the point where best in slot = iwin but it needs to be strong enough to make the wearer say "I am such as a bad ass" and onlookers on both sides would agree, until he accidentally drops a grenade at his foot.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 17:51:00 - [21] - Quote Crm234 wrote: Its not that FPS players hate the rpg side of Dust , its that the FPS side of dust is literally broken and never gets fixed. Spawning Grenades Player Tracking What should be hardwired and what should be a skill Lag Map Design Player counts Squad Commands mixing up tactical and arcadish shooter game modes etc Its just after spending all that time through spreadsheets and fits with the wrong customization concept that FPS players hate you finally launch into a battlefield that is grey, bland, UN unique , and lack luster. Matchmaking or Pve is not good for dust since you want to make the planet conquering as epic of a battle as possible. You want to funnel as many players into that as possible or it just becomes who cares to people that dont play Eve. I agree that FPS side needs more fixing as well but they shouldn't just squash over all the RPG elements dust is trying to bring along for the ride and likely we're not going to see more of it until next build. As for hardwired vs skill book the reason you want it in a skill book it turns the book itself into an adjustable and nerfable container as well as keeping the suit's own container seperate and highly adjustable. If it where up to me there would be no skill book that adds 'nothing' other than unlocks if I could help it. IE suit level skill up effects suit's bonus ect but we're not at that point yet with the game. Oh by the way, Orbital Ammo has found its way onto Tranquility (New Eden's Live Server, we're on Singularity New Eden's Primary Test Server) and people are beginning to manufacture the ammo and destroyers and other fast frigates production rates are up.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.31 18:40:00 - [22] - Quote Crm234 wrote: I hear you man , about the no skill book but im trying to compromise with the Eve RPG skill progression. To this day i really dont feel that Damage and Range are skills that someone holding the same weapon differs. Also you cant mess with a FPS players radar and tell them you have to be level 5 for your items to work properly. Tech , and ablities skill upgrades are fine in my eyes. i keep hearing about customization of dust but keep not seeing it. The duovolt know its spelt wrong looks and fires the same way the gek does that the militia weapon does. Also the more modules your run the slower and heavier you should be . its such a FPS no no to have a scout class have more hit points than a heavy. We call these skills in eve Core Skills. They're usually top priority no matter what specialization you choose in the game Engineering, Electronics, Weaponry in our cases. Luckily they all lvl 1s mostly the more important skills are easier to achieve while the 'tis nice to have' skills are much much higher. Such as corp control, MCC command, HAV piloting ect ect.

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