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Michael Sebi
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.12.27 05:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
If we get shot down and you are still alive it counts as a death, even if a logi revives you! I say that if you decompose it will count as a death not when you get shot down. |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.12.27 06:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
A guy received points for killing you. Therefore, you were dead. If I'm being blunt, forgive me, but this has been discussed many, many times. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
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Posted - 2012.12.27 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Id have to agree with OP why the hell does it count as a death you didnt die yet or better yet why if some one who camps for a revive get a second kill on some one who hasn't technically died at all, i think we should get points for downing someone it should count towards KDR and you should have the option to finish someone off, on the other side of it i think until you bleed out or until you are finished off it should not count as death if you want to count how many times you were taken down fine but you didn't die so deaths shouldn't stake up every time you are downed. |
Michael Sebi
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Id have to agree with OP why the hell does it count as a death you didnt die yet or better yet why if some one who camps for a revive get a second kill on some one who hasn't technically died at all, i think we should get points for downing someone it should count towards KDR and you should have the option to finish someone off, on the other side of it i think until you bleed out or until you are finished off it should not count as death if you want to count how many times you were taken down fine but you didn't die so deaths shouldn't stake up every time you are downed. That is exactly what I'm talking about, they can get points for downing you but it should not count as a death! |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
It counts as and should count as death because if you or I were sucker enough to get shot and incapacited then you deserve to be marked for that. And downing player earns a frag.
Clone count is another thing and your team loses if they can't handle the revives (at least in ambush) |
Michael Sebi
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:It counts as and should count as death because if you or I were sucker enough to get shot and incapacited then you deserve to be marked for that. And downing player earns a frag. It shouldn't, don't be mad at me because you're afraid that if getting shot down isn't a death, you will lose your perfect kill streak by new players. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Sebi wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:It counts as and should count as death because if you or I were sucker enough to get shot and incapacited then you deserve to be marked for that. And downing player earns a frag. It shouldn't, don't be mad at me because you're afraid that if getting shot down isn't a death, you will lose your perfect kill streak by new players. I seriously doubt that is his issue. He clearly states the point. You were taken down and the opposing player got the points. That is a death.
Your Logi revived you. Great for both of you, that saves a very important clone which counts towards completion in a battle. That is a totally separate thing.
When you shoot an enemy, how would you like your +50 Kill flash with a sign that it is temporary until confirmed? Then when his Logi revived him, your screen flashes -50, Kill Revoked.
Perfect kill streaks are fun and you will get your own. The issue here is getting too focused on Deaths (imo). You can die because of a fluke. Fall through the mesh (ground). Your own grenade bounces wrong. The cosmic ray caused a glitch. The noob actually got lucky. Time to start another kill streak.
K/D ratios are good when they are > 1. Below that they mean you have a goal. A lot of the attitudes are left over from COD and that ilk. While they are interesting, in the beginning they are just a measuring stick. A target. Like getting through a battle with Zero Deaths. Ultra cool.
We are mercenaries. Profit and winning matters most.
We are immortal. Death is Obsolete. Learn from your death. Do better. Die less. Get better. Get better gear. Kill those who oppose us.
Win.
Profit.
|
Michael Sebi
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.12.28 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thranx1231 wrote:Michael Sebi wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:It counts as and should count as death because if you or I were sucker enough to get shot and incapacited then you deserve to be marked for that. And downing player earns a frag. It shouldn't, don't be mad at me because you're afraid that if getting shot down isn't a death, you will lose your perfect kill streak by new players. I seriously doubt that is his issue. He clearly states the point. You were taken down and the opposing player got the points. That is a death. Your Logi revived you. Great for both of you, that saves a very important clone which counts towards completion in a battle. That is a totally separate thing. When you shoot an enemy, how would you like your +50 Kill flash with a sign that it is temporary until confirmed? Then when his Logi revived him, your screen flashes -50, Kill Revoked. Perfect kill streaks are fun and you will get your own. The issue here is getting too focused on Deaths (imo). You can die because of a fluke. Fall through the mesh (ground). Your own grenade bounces wrong. The cosmic ray caused a glitch. The noob actually got lucky. Time to start another kill streak. K/D ratios are good when they are > 1. Below that they mean you have a goal. A lot of the attitudes are left over from COD and that ilk. While they are interesting, in the beginning they are just a measuring stick. A target. Like getting through a battle with Zero Deaths. Ultra cool. We are mercenaries. Profit and winning matters most.
We are immortal. Death is Obsolete. Learn from your death. Do better. Die less. Get better. Get better gear. Kill those who oppose us.
Win.
Profit.
When you say that, it makes a whole lot of sense why we don't die technically when we get shot down. |
Aneatanga Taniwha
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.12.28 04:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Id have to agree with OP why the hell does it count as a death you didnt die yet or better yet why if some one who camps for a revive get a second kill on some one who hasn't technically died at all, i think we should get points for downing someone it should count towards KDR and you should have the option to finish someone off, on the other side of it i think until you bleed out or until you are finished off it should not count as death if you want to count how many times you were taken down fine but you didn't die so deaths shouldn't stake up every time you are downed.
Kinda like MAG where you get the points for downing someone, but you can bleed 'em out with gunfire or melee attacks. Though the only problem is you don't get points for bleeding someone out, but you ensure that they have to spawn again, and in this game spawning is costly. To subject, I half disagree and agree with the deaths being related to getting downed, not spawning.
If deaths were only related to spawning, you'd see newbies at the top of the leaderboards, or bloody annoying camp snipers being at the top... However, the flip side would encourage others to not bleed out and wait for triage units to come for them so their K/D ratio doesn't get screwed up. |
Paul Etrades
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.12.28 05:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
As long as you keep you fitting im fine with it
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
431
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Posted - 2012.12.28 05:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
By OP logic, a noob who gets shot down 13 times but got revived 13 times and killed 13 people would have a better KDR than a pro who killed 13 people but got shot down once and didn't get revived.
It shows as a death because it reflects your skill, not how lucky you were if a Logi was there. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
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Posted - 2012.12.28 06:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why not have a three-way stat?
kill/KO's/deaths would let you see not just how many players you downed and how many times you were downed but also being able to see how many suits and clones you lost.
Maybe revives could be counted as well because saving a clone for your team is as important as taking a clone from the other team.
The only thing i really want to see is how much ISK i lost. ISK efficiency is more important than a 6-1 k/d ratio, anyway. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2012.12.28 06:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Why not have a three-way stat?
kill/KO's/deaths would let you see not just how many players you downed and how many times you were downed but also being able to see how many suits and clones you lost.
Maybe revives could be counted as well because saving a clone for your team is as important as taking a clone from the other team.
The only thing i really want to see is how much ISK i lost. ISK efficiency is more important than a 6-1 k/d ratio, anyway.
I agree, worry about all the K/D ratio you want. But, if you're bleeding isk while getting that big fat KDR then it's not going to matter because eventually you'll go broke. |
Michael Sebi
Doomheim
14
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Posted - 2012.12.28 19:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Why not have a three-way stat?
kill/KO's/deaths would let you see not just how many players you downed and how many times you were downed but also being able to see how many suits and clones you lost.
Maybe revives could be counted as well because saving a clone for your team is as important as taking a clone from the other team.
The only thing i really want to see is how much ISK i lost. ISK efficiency is more important than a 6-1 k/d ratio, anyway. I agree, worry about all the K/D ratio you want. But, if you're bleeding isk while getting that big fat KDR then it's not going to matter because eventually you'll go broke. I never thought about it that way, I thought a good K/D ratio was all that mattered, look at DJINN Punisher. |
OgTheEnigma
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 19:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think it should count as a death the first time you get shot down, but if you go down again within 5-10 seconds of being revived then it shouldn't be counted on the scoreboard. I can't stand getting revived only to be shot again at the same time, leading to 2 deaths on the scoreboard for nothing. |
LuckIsWithMe
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.28 22:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
just do the way battlefield 3 does you get the kill if you kill the guy but the guy that gets revived dosent get a death counted towards him/her |
Kaathe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2012.12.29 06:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
K/D has very little to do with actually winning the completing the objective. This game is meant to be tactical and requires well thought out plans. Remember, we are going to be connected to EVE, and many space cowboys are looking at us for profit, not for K/D ratios and stats and kill streaks.
They won't care that we have the best kill streak or shot down so many people. We lose, they lose, then we lose our income. We win, they win, we get to keep out income.
(Now, the only place were K/D might matter are in the E-Sports that CCP will hopefully add. That's were kill points "might" matter.) |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 09:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Michael Sebi wrote:If we get shot down and you are still alive it counts as a death, even if a logi revives you! I say that if you decompose it will count as a death not when you get shot down.
Simple solution.
Stop being s**t and stop getting shot! Then you wont have so many deaths. |
Naturi Riclenore
BetaMax.
120
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 15:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:By OP logic, a noob who gets shot down 13 times but got revived 13 times and killed 13 people would have a better KDR than a pro who killed 13 people but got shot down once and didn't get revived.
It shows as a death because it reflects your skill, not how lucky you were if a Logi was there.
Because there is no safe way to spawn in, that "noob" as you said could be getting unlucky. Random spawn means I spawn in the middle of 5 reds and have no way to defend myself, so it's a kill. No safe spawning means spawn campers wait for you to spawn.. WITH YOUR FACE TO A WALL, and shoot you in the back... again.. how do you defend that.
It in no way reflects skill at all. I watched a guy and his buddy pad their stats all game. 50 / 0 yet the next CLOSEST person was 12 / 2. His buddy on the other side.. 2 / 40.. yeah... shows skill alright.
Spawning in this game sucks as there is no safe way to spawn. And you can't say uplinks because those get camped all the time. Now if you were invincible for say 5 seconds after spawn, then maybe I could agree with you. but the way spawning is now and how people are abusing the system, there's just no good answer |
Crm234
Wraith Shadow Guards
166
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 17:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
the only true way to remove this whole KDR death problem is to remove KDR from the game completely. As long as its in Dust it will be used to judge another player or reflect how you play Dust. I have played FPS basically most of my life its just nature for me to judge how i did in a game by my KDR and how i am doing.
Mag made you not want to die because of long spawn times like a minute and a half, where in dust it can be 3 secs. no one is waiting for the medic to get his act together in this game that takes longer than 3 secs |
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Tinodi
Doomheim
39
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Posted - 2012.12.31 11:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kaathe wrote:K/D has very little to do with actually winning the completing the objective. This game is meant to be tactical and requires well thought out plans. Remember, we are going to be connected to EVE, and many space cowboys are looking at us for profit, not for K/D ratios and stats and kill streaks.
They won't care that we have the best kill streak or shot down so many people. We lose, they lose, then we lose our income. We win, they win, we get to keep out income.
(Now, the only place were K/D might matter are in the E-Sports that CCP will hopefully add. That's were kill points "might" matter.) While true, the two very often go hand-in-hand. While the team with the bigger KDR doesn't always win, I think it is the exception, not the rule. That said, I don't think removing deaths from revive will really accomplish much.
Now I was thinking it might not be a bad idea to have an ability to quickly check ISK profit/loss on a match. Not sure where would be best. Could be some potential downsides, but I think it might encourage more people to actually wait for revives if they can readily see how much money they're losing by respawning. Could also make it easier to know when to back off of your good stuff down to more intermediate gear, or even trash if the match is a goner. I guess that could be an up or downside depending how you look at it. :p |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
KDR is a pointless stat displayed.
You are going to find that the fights that matter, that accomplish things happen because its the objective that matters, not the killboard.
Winning a system almost always mitigates the cost of taking it. if i have to take a 1/8 KDR to win because i concentrated solely on squad support and logistics it means im more useful to my faction than some mealy-mouthed stat-padder. Im objective oriented, and success comes to people in eve and dust who consider more than killboard ratios. |
Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 12:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
As for adding stats to the K/D display, this has been excessively discussed (for instance, to add revives so injector runners get recognized for keeping our clone count up, or kill assists so you can see your assist total) and no one from CCP has done a single thing about it. Don't get your hopes up.
As for getting rid of the K/D display, you are out of your mind. If people can't compare epeens at the end of a match they would loose almost all their drive to play the game. Now, thankfully, players are ranked on the list based on WP instead of K/D, so if your a Logi and you went 0/6 but topped the list with another player who went 16/0 below you, your team knows you were a bigger help to the team than the slayers lower on the list.
As for the OP, I would have to side against the idea. It's a stat tracking your skill, not an exact count of how many clones you lost for your team. WP is what is important, K/D is superficial. I've seen matches where snipers went 19/0 and had the highest kill count, but still came in 10th place because everyone else on the team was working their butts off fighting on the ground and hacking objectives, using droplinks, sharing nanohives, etc.
If you care about your K/D so much, improve your gungame or adjust your tactics. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 19:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Never said get rid of KDR. I said it was a pointless stat.
I will be happy to add that people whose only concern is KDR for skill measurement are...
Nevermind I'll be polite today |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 19:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
I've always been against revives in dust.
But, I don't agree with the OP.
You can't be revived if you're not dead. Your merc is dead, someone just sticks you with nanites that repair most of the damage and bring you back. The 'call for help' option is just a courtesy. Your dude is not alive still.
Like other people said above, I don't mind if they revoke the kill. If they really do want to go the route of no kill/death until the 'bleedout' is over, then it should be easier to force a bleedout. Currently the only weapons that effective force a 'bleedout' on a corpse is the nova knife. Guns make you waste a lot of bullets on a dead guy to make sure they can't get up. It's kind of silly. |
Anyanka Shadowmane
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2012.12.31 19:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Michael Sebi wrote:If we get shot down and you are still alive it counts as a death, even if a logi revives you! I say that if you decompose it will count as a death not when you get shot down. Why does it matter? If you are shot down by someone, they beat you (either by luck or skill) and they get rewarded with WP. You lose nothing until you bleed out, at which point you lose the ISK of your fitting and your team loses a clone when you respawn.
If someone revives you, you don't lose that ISK and get to continue playing from where you are.
What does it matter that the fact that you were beaten is recorded? It has no effect on the game, nor any effect on your WP? |
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