DUST Search - Daily CAP what you dont "GET"

HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote:

Anyanka Shadowmane wrote:

why does that cheapen the other players achievement? If you've been playing to your cap, and earning your 500k SP a week since the game began, and, let's say that you earn, on average 1000sp per game (I've no idea how much you generally earn, this is just a figure for the example.) then each week, you've played 500 games. So, after 2 years you've earned 52,000,000 SP. if a new player starts during this time, and can play 52,000 games, in less time, why shouldn't ey end up with the same sp? They've played the same number of games that were earning SP. how does that cheapen your efforts? If you've chosen to play games that didn't earn you sp, that you enjoyed and earned ISK for, should that mean that a new player can't catch up?

Because most MMO have "dumb" skills which may sound good one paper but after they are bought the player comes to find are absolutely worthless or for the sake of game balance are dumbed down.My examples are Large misssle turret,small missle turret,most drop ship skills (after the change to the flight physics) and my resent favorite Light weapon sharp shooter.All of which have either been changed or nerfed and alot of people wish they had that SP back.Im not opposed to any of those nerfs or any others.Im just saying that the day 1 player might have gone down that path and now has to reconfigure his/her character to compensate to try and salvage his stats/character.You were a tanker now you are on foot you have no weapon/armor skills.
The new player benefits by never putting SP into those skills and learns from another s mistakes.This in RPG'S is called "planned"character generation.Its like a line of people going through a maze,and you are the last in line.You get the benifit of everyone branching of and telling you not to go this way or that and you cruise right on through.Ez mode


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Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.25 09:58:00 - [1] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: It DOES matter.IF YOU DONT PLAY DAILY YOU GET NO SP JACKASS.WTF ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING?YOU HAVE 7 DAYS TO ACHIEVE A WEEKLY CAP OF 500K THAT WONT TAKE YOU A WHOLE WEEK OF PLAY.IT TAKES MOST PEOPLE A COUPLE DAYS....DAMN ITS LIKE TALKING TO A WALL Why does it matter f the cap is weekly or daily? As Vane Arcadia new players will always have less SP than dedicated players who started playing before them (unless the dedicated player takes a massive break for some reason.) For instance, let's say that I'd only just started. I've got the SP that I start with. Now, even if I play to my cap every time, I'll never catch up with players like G-SLicK (just using him as an example as he's been in the thread, no offence intended) as he is also playing to the cap but he's also however million SP ahead of me to begin with. So we're still progressing at the same rate. Yes, I'll be getting new skills quicker as the lower ranked ones are cheaper, but in order to be able to really compete with him, I'll need to get one of my weapons skill maxed out and one of my suit skills too. If CCP want new players to be able to 'catch up' with older players, they need to make an overall life time cap that goes up each day. So that newer players are ale to earn as much SP as they can play for, while longer standing players with higher SP will still be ale to earn more each day. That's IF CCP wants new players to be able to catch up. It may be that they implement a matchmaking scheme that means that they don't have to. I don't know what the intention behind the SP cap is. I assume that it's to stop the players with the time and the inclination to ply more from completely dominating the games while we are in this much smaller beta test community.
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.25 18:16:00 - [2] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: I didnt invent the CAP.CCP did. i am aware of this, what I'm not aware of is their reason behind it. HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: The difference between me and this new player that you spoke of is that I used skill boosters weather active or passive.That cost me the "user" ...money.CCP needs to make money so they can pay there employees. I didn't mention skill boosters at all. They don't come in to it, surely. Once you've hit your cap, you've hit you cap. Having an active booster won't affect that other than to allow you to hit that cap earlier, wont it? HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: I have been playing since day one this other "user" has not. So am I right in saying that you think that someone who hasn't been playing as long as you have shouldn't every be able to catch up with you on SP? HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: That aside CCP has tried triple SP rewards in previous builds everyone is wearing proto and no one uses the lesser gear unless they had too it was just as vanilla as anything else.The idea is for you to feel like you HAVE achieved something.It is only us Americans that are so into instant gratification.People just want to hit the fast foward button.Others just want advantage. I was mainly thinking about game balance. Once the game has been live for a while, new players will never be able to match the SP of a longer standing player. Is this a problem? I don't know. It might mean a couple of things though. 1. Longer standing players will have an advantage over newer players that the newer player won't aver be able to match. 2. if a matchmaking process is implemented, the players with the higher SP will end up with a smaller selection of opponents that will be unlikely to increase for a long time. 3. It may result in dissuading new players, as they won't ever be ale to match the older players. HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: The problem with the example you gave is this.I open up my slot 2 and level up over night the other player had to grind for months.I catch up in 2 weeks.It cheapens the other players achievements,the guy who had to grind. why does that cheapen the other players achievement? If you've been playing to your cap, and earning your 500k SP a week since the game began, and, let's say that you earn, on average 1000sp per game (I've no idea how much you generally earn, this is just a figure for the example.) then each week, you've played 500 games. So, after 2 years you've earned 52,000,000 SP. if a new player starts during this time, and can play 52,000 games, in less time, why shouldn't ey end up with the same sp? They've played the same number of games that were earning SP. how does that cheapen your efforts? If you've chosen to play games that didn't earn you sp, that you enjoyed and earned ISK for, should that mean that a new player can't catch up?
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:25:00 - [3] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Anyanka Shadowmane wrote: why does that cheapen the other players achievement? If you've been playing to your cap, and earning your 500k SP a week since the game began, and, let's say that you earn, on average 1000sp per game (I've no idea how much you generally earn, this is just a figure for the example.) then each week, you've played 500 games. So, after 2 years you've earned 52,000,000 SP. if a new player starts during this time, and can play 52,000 games, in less time, why shouldn't ey end up with the same sp? They've played the same number of games that were earning SP. how does that cheapen your efforts? If you've chosen to play games that didn't earn you sp, that you enjoyed and earned ISK for, should that mean that a new player can't catch up? Because most MMO have "dumb" skills which may sound good one paper but after they are bought the player comes to find are absolutely worthless or for the sake of game balance are dumbed down.My examples are Large misssle turret,small missle turret,most drop ship skills (after the change to the flight physics) and my resent favorite Light weapon sharp shooter.All of which have either been changed or nerfed and alot of people wish they had that SP back.Im not opposed to any of those nerfs or any others.Im just saying that the day 1 player might have gone down that path and now has to reconfigure his/her character to compensate to try and salvage his stats/character.You were a tanker now you are on foot you have no weapon/armor skills. The new player benefits by never putting SP into those skills and learns from another s mistakes.This in RPG'S is called "planned"character generation.Its like a line of people going through a maze,and you are the last in line.You get the benifit of everyone branching of and telling you not to go this way or that and you cruise right on through.Ez mode So you think that their SP should be worth less than yours? I'm afraid I disagree entirely. Even now, it's entirely possible to check what skills are like with other players who've already bought them, I mean, I've got an alt that I specifically use to try out skills before buying them for my main character. Okay, so once the game goes live, there'll be no way to get back SP spent on skills you don't like, but as Beta testers, we'll have already played and tried things out, so when the game starts and we lose all our characters, we'll all be able to plan our characters, so why should a player who comes along later get penalised for doing the same thing?
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:33:00 - [4] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: If the player is "hardcore" he/she is playing this beta. That's not true in the slightest. I mean, eve online is 9 years old, assuming that the intention is for dust to last as long, then there will be a large number of new 'hardcore' gamers available to play it who aren't interested right now. HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: This SP cap situation only affects this Hardcore player.The non hardcore player will not either care or have the time to play so this issue is moot to them. also not true. What about a 'hardcore' gamer who started after the players who are already running proto gear? HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Now those that like the game but are busy can buy a passive which does not award 500k a week.(Ive done the math)And why should it?If this person cannot find time in 7 days to use there active to achieve the cap while others can.This person isnt actually playing the game so why should they?I am ok with this.But what about this game being f2p and it taking someone more than 2 days to achieve the cap?Or there Sp payouts are lower per match than ours?So what do we say?Fk that guy?Nah. Like I said before if you got time to burn CCP has given you more than 1 character slot.If you are board grind without boosters on. The boosters you appear to be fixated on are nothing to do with it. As I understand it, once you reach your weekly SP cap, however you've earns the SP, your SP gain is reduced for the week. A 'hardcore' player, who starts playing now because they got their PS3 for Christmas will never be able to catch up to someone like G-SLicK, even if they play more and use constant active and passive boosters because both the old and the new players have the same limits on how much SP they can earn per week. Before being able to properly make suggestions to CCP as to how they can achieve heir aim, we need to know what their aim is.
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.25 23:37:00 - [5] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Anyanka Shadowmane wrote: The boosters you appear to be fixated on are nothing to do with it. As I understand it, once you reach your weekly SP cap, however you've earns the SP, your SP gain is reduced for the week. A 'hardcore' player, who starts playing now because they got their PS3 for Christmas will never be able to catch up to someone like G-SLicK, even if they play more and use constant active and passive boosters because both the old and the new players have the same limits on how much SP they can earn per week. Before being able to properly make suggestions to CCP as to how they can achieve heir aim, we need to know what their aim is. I already addressed you question.G slick since you like using him as an example bought Monthly,weekly,daily,3 day passive skillboosters to achieve that Sp and assign it where he wanted too.What your telling me is.That a daily would help this new person achieve his rank and standing in half the time it took G slick.......That cheapens his achievement AND robs him of real world money he spent to achieve that. No, you're putting words in to my mouth. What I said was; Before being able to properly make suggestions to CCP as to how they can achieve heir aim, we need to know what their aim is. If CCP don't want new players to be able to catch up with the longer standing players, then there is no point in having an SP cap at all. They will, in my opinion, however, need to come up with a good method of matchmaking to prevent the longer standing players from a) getting bored of playing games that offer them little to no challenge and leaving, and b) massively dominating every game they are involved in to the extent that new players don't feel they can compete and leave. A side effect to be aware of may be that the player base ends up being split and the 'hardcore' gamers might end up playing the same people over and over. If CCP do want new players to be able to catch up, then i think they need to look at an alternative to the SP cap system they have n place at the moment. I disagree with your reasoning that a new player catching up with an old payer cheapens their achievement, and it certainly doesn't rob them of anything and I don't understand your apparent infatuation with the boosters. As it currently stands, the SP cap is 500k a week. So, if two players ( lets call them player A & player B) both start new characters at the same point and player A plays 500 games each earning him 1000 sp during a week, and player B played the exact same games, earning the exact same score, but with the boosters active, they'd both have earned 500k sp. the only difference is that player B would have done it sooner and would have played a number of games after the cap was hit without earning sp. In this situation, both players have invested the same time and effort, and both have had the same rewards. No-ones efforts are cheapened, no-ones been robbed. Why does time scale make it any different?
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.26 00:10:00 - [6] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Anyanka Shadowmane wrote: So, if two players ( lets call them player A & player B) both start new characters at the same point and player A plays 500 games each earning him 1000 sp during a week, and player B played the exact same games, earning the exact same score, but with the boosters active, they'd both have earned 500k sp. the only difference is that player B would have done it sooner and would have played a number of games after the cap was hit without earning sp. In this situation, both players have invested the same time and effort, and both have had the same rewards. No-ones efforts are cheapened, no-ones been robbed. Why does time scale make it any different? First of all your logic is flawed and circular...omg. In your example player B has an active on.....it wouldnt take him 500 games...........because the ACTIVE BOOSTER multiplies his WP to SP payout PER match.So player B gets 500k in 250 matches.But goes on to play another 250 he now has 1 million SP....Player A has to play 1000 games to keep up with player B.As this continues that margin becomes greater until it is physically impossible to play enough matches to keep with Player B, as player A literally runs out of time to play matches between downtimes.What dont YOU understand? player B wouldn't earn 1 million sp because the cap is 500k a week. He would hit the cap after 250 games, then the next 250 would only earn him ISK.
Anyanka Shadowmane Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2012.12.26 00:44:00 - [7] - Quote HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote: Wow nice troll.Thanks for restating the obvious.What is your point exactly?That you think the cap should not be in place yes?Am I Understanding that right?Im assuming that you are not in favor of a cap?Sooooooo By your example both player A and player B play for the same amount of time per week.Who has more SP ay the end of the week.This game is supposed to be f2p. A player with no cap and boosters on will always be ahead of that guy in YOUR scenario.Thats the need for the ******* cap. My point is; Before being able to properly make suggestions to CCP as to how they can achieve heir aim, we need to know what their aim is. I have stated no preference as to if we have a cap or not. What I want doesn't matter. What I want to know is what CCP wants, if they want new players to be able to catch up with old ones or not. Then we can try to work out how to achieve that.