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ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to see for ammo to be purchaseable. It would be dirt cheap for the simple ones, but the more exotic ones will cost you a pretty penny. They won't be better per se, just different uses. (EM for shields, Thermal for Armor etc') On EVE side, they would also be dirt cheap to manufacture, 10000 per blueprint run for normal ammo and 5000 for exotic ammo seems reasonable. The mineral requirments will go up as the rarity comes up.
Militia weaponry won't require any ammo, it comes ready out of the box. Standard requires the most cheapest ammo type - call it Standard ammo. Advanced requires medium cost ammo - Advanced ammo Prototype requires high cost ammo - Prototype ammo
To make things more clear:
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work. What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. Yup, that was my idea. And Militia ammo is free. Standard and above costs you money. You can't use Militia ammo with Prototype gear, you need ammo that fits your weapon grade. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2012.12.24 14:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Down the road, lets get a functioning game first. |
Crm234
Wraith Shadow Guards
166
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 16:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
95
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Posted - 2012.12.24 16:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
You would equip that certain ammo type in your fitting screen or a supply depot you could get it resupplied but it will cost you some to equip it in the first place ; seems good enough to me. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 16:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create.
Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another.
Same answer |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 16:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create. Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. Same answer But that is still hell for logistics, either that or redundant, if ammo is one broad thing that is interchangeable, or if it really is unique and nanohives must be supplied with multiple types.
Also, think about it. Ammo is a minuscule cost for frigates in EVE, and those guns are actually pretty massive. Some of the frigate-class turrets are actually dual-barreled 280mm artillery cannons, and the ammunition for them costs very little. Imagine how insignificant the cost of ammunition in Dust would be. It really is unneeded. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create. Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. Same answer But that is still hell for logistics, either that or redundant, if ammo is one broad thing that is interchangeable, or if it really is unique and nanohives must be supplied with multiple types. Also, think about it. Ammo is a minuscule cost for frigates in EVE, and those guns are actually pretty massive. Some of the frigate-class turrets are actually dual-barreled 280mm artillery cannons, and the ammunition for them costs very little. Imagine how insignificant the cost of ammunition in Dust would be. It really is unneeded. Who said that Logis will have to bring multiple types of Nanohives? And yes, the price is miniscule, but its there. Imagine how many bullets are fired in a single match, then the price is noticeable. This can also cause for people to be more careful when firing, because missing will hurt where it hurts the most - the wallet. Also, have you ever seen how fast Frigates go through ammo? Now imagine how FAST we fire our guns. The cost per minute would be about the same. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Crm234 wrote:what would be the point of buying ammo , when you get it resupplied by nano hives and supply depots? Everyone would just drop a nano hive in the mcc the first spawn and defeat the purpose. Nanohives will require ammo to create. Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would either be redundant or hell for supply logistics. In EVE, its one thing, but in Dust, its another. Same answer But that is still hell for logistics, either that or redundant, if ammo is one broad thing that is interchangeable, or if it really is unique and nanohives must be supplied with multiple types. Also, think about it. Ammo is a minuscule cost for frigates in EVE, and those guns are actually pretty massive. Some of the frigate-class turrets are actually dual-barreled 280mm artillery cannons, and the ammunition for them costs very little. Imagine how insignificant the cost of ammunition in Dust would be. It really is unneeded. Who said that Logis will have to bring multiple types of Nanohives? And yes, the price is miniscule, but its there. Imagine how many bullets are fired in a single match, then the price is noticeable. This can also cause for people to be more careful when firing, because missing will hurt where it hurts the most - the wallet. Also, have you ever seen how fast Frigates go through ammo? Now imagine how FAST we fire our guns. The cost per minute would be about the same.
1. I said that if you had to put ammo in to make Nanohives, you'd either need multiple types of ammo to make Nanohives, or you'd need to make ammo interchangeable.
2. Standard ammunition for a single projectile turret in EVE to fire once costs 10-15 ISK, and that is a big round (12mm is almost .50 caliber, and the projectile turrets in EVE are up to 280mm). So, let's be generous and say that an Assault Rifle round costs 0.10 ISK. If you fire it one thousand times, that's still only 100 ISK, and most people don't fire it that often unless they like constantly running out of ammo. It really is insignificant. And no, the cost per minute wouldn't be the same.
Take for example, some turrets fire every few seconds. It costs around 10-20 ISK for any given turret to fire once. Let's say 20 times a minute, which is once every three seconds. Not terribly fast for a frigate-class turret. That would cost 300 ISK/minute. To do similar, an Assault Rifle at the previously stated generous cost would have to fire 3000 rounds per minute.
Combat works differently in EVE, as well, as your turrets are supposed to keep firing, independent of other actions you commit. You can't do the same in an FPS. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. |
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ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work.
What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work. What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. Yup, that was my idea. And Militia ammo is free. Standard and above costs you money. You can't use Militia ammo with Prototype gear, you need ammo that fits your weapon grade. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work. What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. Yup, that was my idea. And Militia ammo is free. Standard and above costs you money. You can't use Militia ammo with Prototype gear, you need ammo that fits your weapon grade. You really should have made it more clear about how it worked. In that case, I support. Ammunition is always fun.
Also, advanced and prototype are sort of like the Tech II of Dust. T2 ammo in EVE is far more significant costing than T1, so I guess that does make a difference. It shouldn't cost too much, though. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Nah, as it is certain weapon types are good against certain type of defense. This creates an inherent balance last thing i want is a Mass Effect type assualt class that can carry multiple types of ammo and and handle all threats with just one loadout. Only one. You choose it when you fit your gun. (When gun customization comes out) Yes, I would like to see the option of customizing a gun with ammunition, but I'm still confused about how it would work. What if you kept your own ammo in stock, and when you went to a supply depot or nanohive, it withdrew it from your own stocks, similarly to dropsuits and vehicles? That would be the simplest option, and probably the best. Of course, there should probably be a default militia ammunition. Yup, that was my idea. And Militia ammo is free. Standard and above costs you money. You can't use Militia ammo with Prototype gear, you need ammo that fits your weapon grade. You really should have made it more clear about how it worked. In that case, I support. Ammunition is always fun. Also, advanced and prototype are sort of like the Tech II of Dust. T2 ammo in EVE is far more significant costing than T1, so I guess that does make a difference. It shouldn't cost too much, though. If you support then a like would be appreciated :) |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. lol, perfect way to take down the shields of all of the squad. Antimatter ammo would be problematic, we aren't talking about ships here, a teaspoon of Anti-matter can do a LOT of damage to the Earth in real life, so I guess there wouldn't be antimatter in Dust. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. lol, perfect way to take down the shields of all of the squad. Antimatter ammo would be problematic, we aren't talking about ships here, a teaspoon of Anti-matter can do a LOT of damage to the Earth in real life, so I guess there wouldn't be antimatter in Dust. Most of the antimatter charge is actually just a containing material. The actual amount of antimatter would likely be much smaller than a speck of dust for a handheld weapon round, and quite a bit of it would be used up just travelling through the air. A true short-range ammo. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 18:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:It would be interesting to see how people react to ammunition. Perhaps it could be even more varied than in EVE. That would be fun. Gatling guns filled with EMP rounds? No one expected that!
On a side note, do vehicles use ammo? They probably should, then they would park next to supply depots to reload. lol, perfect way to take down the shields of all of the squad. Antimatter ammo would be problematic, we aren't talking about ships here, a teaspoon of Anti-matter can do a LOT of damage to the Earth in real life, so I guess there wouldn't be antimatter in Dust. Most of the antimatter charge is actually just a containing material. The actual amount of antimatter would likely be much smaller than a speck of dust for a handheld weapon round, and quite a bit of it would be used up just travelling through the air. A true short-range ammo. Well I guess it could work then. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
It sounds workable. Instead of making the ammo one round at a time make it in ammo packs. Only problem is the skill for max magazine capacity. Would still need different resists built into the game. Therm, Kinetic, EM, and Explosive. I'm sure it's doable and more then likely CCP has a plan on how to do it. Say 50 rounds per pack? Or what they could do is take out the skill for the amount of ammo per clip. And then make each weapon grade have a different amount of rounds per clip. Then just make the blueprint able to manufacture different sizes of packs and however many packs you need. That would be the easiest unless they went with different blueprints for each ammo pack size. |
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Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 20:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:It sounds workable. Instead of making the ammo one round at a time make it in ammo packs. Only problem is the skill for max magazine capacity. Would still need different resists built into the game. Therm, Kinetic, EM, and Explosive. I'm sure it's doable and more then likely CCP has a plan on how to do it. Say 50 rounds per pack? Or what they could do is take out the skill for the amount of ammo per clip. And then make each weapon grade have a different amount of rounds per clip. Then just make the blueprint able to manufacture different sizes of packs and however many packs you need. That would be the easiest unless they went with different blueprints for each ammo pack size. Not necessary. It would be the same with or without "packs", the only difference would be the numbers, and the inventory system handles item quantity very well. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Except I don't think anyone wants to sit and play manufacture single rounds at a time thing. Doing so wouldn't take long per round, just tedious. But having multiple 1000s of rounds in your inventory would kind of slow down the server when it has to check the database. And the database will only allow 1,200 items per hangar currently. It was originally 1,000 but they changed that with the recent expansion. I know this because on my EVE accounts I have several hangars with 100s of items and it takes the server between 5 and 10 seconds to access the database for my hangar. |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Except I don't think anyone wants to sit and play manufacture single rounds at a time thing. Doing so wouldn't take long per round, just tedious. But having multiple 1000s of rounds in your inventory would kind of slow down the server when it has to check the database. And the database will only allow 1,200 items per hangar currently. It was originally 1,000 but they changed that with the recent expansion. I know this because on my EVE accounts I have several hangars with 100s of items and it takes the server between 5 and 10 seconds to access the database for my hangar. Damn it, why don't you read the main post? He said it would be like in EVE, where ammunition manufacturing produces multiple rounds, except to an even greater degree.
Also, quantities of items are different. I know that EVE has a system that works, because I can have stacks of millions of ore and minerals, and I'm sure after the two are connected, the inventory system will be unified somehow. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ok, re-read it. Sounds good to me. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 20:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yay for sounds good |
Ulysses Knapse
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
73
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 21:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Oh, and there should be an option to quickly switch your ammo at supply depots so you didn't have to change your fit. Mostly for convenience. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 21:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Oh, and there should be an option to quickly switch your ammo at supply depots so you didn't have to change your fit. Mostly for convenience. Sounds good and easy to implement. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 05:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bump |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1594
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 05:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
One step at a time, young padawan. CCP has more important things to deal with first and you and I have a long road ahead in terms of how the game will improve over the years. Haste makes waste. |
kyan west
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 06:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
anyone notice the bullets in dust are incindeary? try shooting at a wall and itl start to burn where you shoot
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