DUST Search - Can someone explain to me why did CCP reduce the "stats" difference be...

Berserker007 wrote:

Gunner Visari wrote:

Also you CHOSE to spec all your SP into proto gear to get an edge rather than looking at all the skills available like i did. Granted ive only been in the game 2 weeks so i have the benefit of coming in after all the changes(which is why you guys should have gotten a wipe).

But first thing i realized was there would be no way to sustain high tier gear for long. Instead i took what AUR i did have and get tier I militia BPO suit and modules and tier I armor gear.

Instead of trying to get fancy dropsuits ive left my dropsuit spec at 2 and speced into shiled boost, shiled enhancement, and field mechanics, to get native boosts to my character regardless of what equipment i have on, same with weaponry, 1 weapon operation and sharpshooter.

This gives me the most bang for my buck regardless of gear. Perhaps if you did this you wouldnt feel iike you wasted SP in gear you shouldnt be using yet anyway.

If you take the security model into acct it makes sense that you first buildup your character then you buildup equipment. Its like trying to curl 150lbs before you can even bench press 150lbs.

Thats just the way you do it in RPG's. YOu dont get the shiny toys before youve got the base stats built otherwise their bonuses are just a waste.

Edit-Stop blaming the devs because of the way you chose to spend your skill points. That was your choice to go that route just because it isnt reaping the benefits you like doesnt mean the game is wrong. You just mismanged the points. Do what i did and create a new character and dont expect to be a god inside of a month let along a week or two.

you do realize that in your 2 week experience, most of us have been playing for 6 months; so everything you said we already know and have done. Don't assume we all went straight proto suits, and have nothing into other categories; as people do things at their own pace and need.


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Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 18:54:00 - [1] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: because DUST is also a FPS first and foremost and an "RPG" 2nd having Gear be the main decider in who wins gunfights is BAD for a FPS hence the suit nerf and now weapon nerfs the plan is to give u small advantages not large ones i do feel the prices of some stuff might need to be brought down a tad but so far working as intended and proto suits with higher cpu/pg and slots already give u a big advantage over someone who has to fit less powerful mods and guns on his lower tier suit. This attitude is bad for the game. I'll explain on irc if you want. This game should not be about endless hisec matches and unfortunately that is what this game is being balanced for as people cry for proto nerfs etc. This game should be about newer players and casuals running low ISK matches in standard fits in hisec. Proto fits in lowsec/FW. Better clans and players. Officer fits in nullsec. Most dangerous clans and players. The crying on the forums is ruining the game before it begins.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 18:59:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: The lower discrepancies factor in the bonuses you get from higher skill levels so the gap is still there, but isn't excessive. So should standard suits be competitive in nullsec then? Because that's where this game is currently going....
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 19:02:00 - [3] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: The lower discrepancies factor in the bonuses you get from higher skill levels so the gap is still there, but isn't excessive. So should standard suits be competitive in nullsec then? Because that's where this game is currently going.... Suits are another issue. With the bonuses you get from higher skill level, you still get barely any advantage for upgrading. I know a lot of people think the hp upgrades were excessive in E3, removing them completely just makes me want to stick with a Type-II. Substitute fit for "suits". The issue is the same. This game is getting worse because of the crying and "balance" done to proto gear.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 19:32:00 - [4] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: The lower discrepancies factor in the bonuses you get from higher skill levels so the gap is still there, but isn't excessive. So should standard suits be competitive in nullsec then? Because that's where this game is currently going.... Suits are another issue. With the bonuses you get from higher skill level, you still get barely any advantage for upgrading. I know a lot of people think the hp upgrades were excessive in E3, removing them completely just makes me want to stick with a Type-II. no ppl want crutches ur higher cpu/pg and mod slots already give u a bigger advantage over the lower tier player so why do u need a BASE hp buff when u already can get ALOT more HP by fitting MORE HIGHER end mods? I'm not going to be playing this game if it continues to be about pubstomping. It's tedious. If you and your scrubs want to stay in hisec stomping pubs with protogear have fun ;) Here is a transcript from IRC that you missed - Telc: its not really a particular set of nerfs/flattening Telc: its the general trend Telc: the game is getting wrecked by crying Telc: because there is gear in game that is being used where it shouldn't be used Mobius_Wyvern: For example? Telc: any proto gear Telc: do you seriously want us to be farming hisec players in 6 months? Telc: think about the game when it has other outlets for players Telc: ie FW and nullsec Telc: when FW is released Telc: the isk payouts in hisec should be radically reduced Telc: make it too expensive to run proto gear GoD-NoVa: preach it Telc: fw payouts should be much better Telc: so good players go to fw Telc: yet noone on the forums thinks about this at all Telc: they just cry and cry about getting stomped Mobius_Wyvern: Right now there's not really a reason to change Mobius_Wyvern: Plenty of reason to discuss it Mobius_Wyvern: But hi-sec is all we have right now GoD-NoVa: just like in eve if the good players want to get more money and better stuff they need to go to null Telc: imo its totally counterproductive Mobius_Wyvern: And we still need to test things Telc: we aren't testing **** Mobius_Wyvern: Say what? Telc: this is just endless thrashing of crappy balance choices Mobius_Wyvern: Ah, ok Telc: ie Telc: we are finely tuning the balance Telc: for an artificial situation Telc: a situation I won't be playing Telc: because its a tedious game this way Telc: i think that anyone coming into FW before they are ready Telc: should die really quickly Telc: ie Telc: they aren't geared for it Telc: and they aren't skilled enough for it Telc: so they have to work for it Telc: ie "progression" Mobius_Wyvern: Right Telc: so these proto suit/proto weapon flattenings Telc: have harmed a game that doesn't exist yet Telc: all to make a bunch of whiners happier with the "balance" Mobius_Wyvern: I gotta agree that I don't see the appeal in pub stomping Mobius_Wyvern: I'm going for FW as soon as I can Mobius_Wyvern: And I think a lot of people will be doing the same Mobius_Wyvern: They only people worried about pub stomping are the pubs Telc: we'll be waiting ;)
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 20:20:00 - [5] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: sorry but we dont intend to be pubstomping either we plan to be in FW and Null just like u do sir. also if the gear doesnt give u a big advantage then why would we be pubstomping with proto gear we dont even use proto suits in pubs most of my peeps in standard and adv sooooo yeaa.......... u arent seeing my side of the argument so its kool. competitive shooters take a look at them. DUST still gives u a good advantage with higher tier gear as is. Why should a clan v clan match be decided on who brought the higher tier gear? that goes against anything in a competitive shooter. The game is going to be stratified or layered by Hi/Low(FW)/Null I'm guessing people won't even be in FW if they can't field 16+ and are in corp that can front the ISK to be full proto. Look what I said about the ISK payouts now vs then. They should be radically reduced for Hisec so that even advanced is a bit of a stretch for pubstomping risk/reward (Btw I haven't even trained proto suits because I haven't really needed them.) I want good players to be FORCED to corp up, proto up and go to FW. Then all this balancing is pointless because you wont have good players in proto in hisec AND you wont have cheap scrubs in lowsec. I don't want anyone in lowsec in anything LESS than proto. We will be playing each other (I expect you to be there too bro) in lowsec GEARED with LOTS of ISK on the line. It will be a lot more fun.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 20:35:00 - [6] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Yes, new players should be at a disadvantage to experienced players. However everyone is being caught up in how it works in the beta as we only have pub matches. On full release, these players will be split so there shouldn't have been a reason to alter weapon play to make things more even; as that is what match type will do in full release. QFT
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 20:43:00 - [7] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: i still dont know what QFT is? and reedited, as left part out in that statment QuotedForTruth
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 20:44:00 - [8] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Gunner Visari wrote: Also you CHOSE to spec all your SP into proto gear to get an edge rather than looking at all the skills available like i did. Granted ive only been in the game 2 weeks so i have the benefit of coming in after all the changes(which is why you guys should have gotten a wipe). But first thing i realized was there would be no way to sustain high tier gear for long. Instead i took what AUR i did have and get tier I militia BPO suit and modules and tier I armor gear. Instead of trying to get fancy dropsuits ive left my dropsuit spec at 2 and speced into shiled boost, shiled enhancement, and field mechanics, to get native boosts to my character regardless of what equipment i have on, same with weaponry, 1 weapon operation and sharpshooter. This gives me the most bang for my buck regardless of gear. Perhaps if you did this you wouldnt feel iike you wasted SP in gear you shouldnt be using yet anyway. If you take the security model into acct it makes sense that you first buildup your character then you buildup equipment. Its like trying to curl 150lbs before you can even bench press 150lbs. Thats just the way you do it in RPG's. YOu dont get the shiny toys before youve got the base stats built otherwise their bonuses are just a waste. Edit-Stop blaming the devs because of the way you chose to spend your skill points. That was your choice to go that route just because it isnt reaping the benefits you like doesnt mean the game is wrong. You just mismanged the points. Do what i did and create a new character and dont expect to be a god inside of a month let along a week or two. you do realize that in your 2 week experience, most of us have been playing for 6 months; so everything you said we already know and have done. Don't assume we all went straight proto suits, and have nothing into other categories; as people do things at their own pace and need. Yeah its pretty tedious listening to scrubs like this talking down to people. But whatever.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.22 22:00:00 - [9] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Berserker007 wrote: i have to agree w/ Telc, Mavado. As it currently stands, what you are asking for is to allow people of equal skill to be on equal footing running basic gear as proto gear. lolwut? if both players are equal skill then with how it is currently the guy with better gear has an advantage already i never said everyone should be even yall just want the gap to be too big why should only the rich corps be allowed to play FW? why shouldnt a poorer corp that is alot more skillful be able to come into FW and **** rich EVE funded corps who might be terrible? competitive clans wont take this game srsly if better gear wins u battles and skill takes a back seat. This is a big problem with your outlook. This is a game that should be played for years. Not 3 months like cod4,5,6,7 So you seriously want the game to allow a newb to come into lowsec with no investment? No risk since they can run trash gear... No time investment and they are in lowsec from day one? That sounds terrible. I have no desire to play with players that are zerging nullsec and lowsec with no ISK invested and no commitment to the game. This game is supposed to be about risking your time and ISK. If you get your way it will just be another bad COD clone.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2012.12.24 07:22:00 - [10] - Quote Let me try again to explain to Mavado and others that agree with him. This is like poker. In poker there is the $1 table(hisec) the $100 table(lowsec) and the $10,000 table(nullsec). Mavado you want the guys at the $1 table to be able to come play at the $10,000 table. That's completely wrong. You are handwaving about "competitive fps" because you are bringing those games to Dust514 and Eve. Eve (and someday Dust514) should be about RISK. If you don't HAVE to risk $$$ to come fight to win $$$$ then you have broken the game.