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Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2012.12.22 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:What's the point of playing a RPG if you can't develop your character and have so much better things?
I mean, SP loses sense if you play to get better and use Proto things but you have not so much difference with an "advance" guy or a "milita" guy.
You need to play like 3 weeks and get all the SP just to train the skill to use Proto suits. If you spend 1 240 000 SP in just 1 skill, i think you want to feel powerful, stronger, etc, but it doesn't look to have a great difference with advance suits, or combat II suit, and you already need to be worried about don't die to preserve your ISK.
Also with weapons. The difference between Proto and Standar weapons, it's not so much, at least in AR.
I just want to know the reason of this "change" because now, SP it doesn't look so important for me.
Sorry for the english. See you
Well TBF, the game cycle is designed so that when game lauches it would take 7 YEARS to develop every skill in the game. So yea i wouldnt expect nor do i want anyone to be a god in this game after a month or two. Thats what generally breaks every FPS/RPG game ive ever played the short duration it takes to become godly, after which all skill/challenge is lost from the game.
Yes you don't get more health from proto suits but what you get is more CPU/PG and slots in those build to create a stronger build but how you do and what you do with it is entirely up to your skill, if this game became just another here play it for a few months and grind and then you will be unstoppable it won't be any fun or challenging. I can tell you first hand how difficult it can be to kill a Proto scout or assault class suit with just my miliia or exile weapons and suits in a 1v1 situation. But in numbers yes we can win. But anything in numbers should beat anyone who is solo no matter how expensive the build. In fact it kind of works as self-regulating balance.. don't want to lose that shiny expensive gear don't get solo and you generally wont. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The lower discrepancies factor in the bonuses you get from higher skill levels so the gap is still there, but isn't excessive.
So should standard suits be competitive in nullsec then? Because that's where this game is currently going.... Suits are another issue. With the bonuses you get from higher skill level, you still get barely any advantage for upgrading. I know a lot of people think the hp upgrades were excessive in E3, removing them completely just makes me want to stick with a Type-II. no ppl want crutches ur higher cpu/pg and mod slots already give u a bigger advantage over the lower tier player so why do u need a BASE hp buff when u already can get ALOT more HP by fitting MORE HIGHER end mods?
Also the nullsec/highsec argument is being thrown around without any idea yet what the isk rewards are going to be in those ares. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 20:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
o. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 21:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jarlaxle Xorlarrin wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Berserker007 wrote:i have to agree w/ Telc, Mavado. As it currently stands, what you are asking for is to allow people of equal skill to be on equal footing running basic gear as proto gear.
lolwut? if both players are equal skill then with how it is currently the guy with better gear has an advantage already i never said everyone should be even yall just want the gap to be too big why should only the rich corps be allowed to play FW? why shouldnt a poorer corp that is alot more skillful be able to come into FW and **** rich EVE funded corps who might be terrible? competitive clans wont take this game srsly if better gear wins u battles and skill takes a back seat. ^ this +1
And here is where the divide between FPS minded and RPG minded players come crashing head to head. Since i play both i can easily sympathize with both. If they buff the protos they dont need to necessarily cost too much to be worth using the rewards in highsec need to be low enough to deter them from being used. Conversely Mavado, if the ISK rewards are high enough in nullsec you will be able to use them there and generate nice profits, because your corp has the skill to earn those yields, it would just take a while establishing your smaller corp to get the funds to get there. If you could just go in with militia gear and do well because the stats line up nicely enough, then that would make having the protos useless(yes i finally understand the fundamental argument that players asking for a buff are talking about, it just took a while for the light bulb to click) as everyone would run militia gear everywhere and since the loot drop is partly determined by the gear of your opponents it would just plain suck being in nullsec, why run proto if you can compete in militia. Like anything else you buildup you save and then you invest. Thats the RPG side of this game and it does need to be there as well.
Is this basically the divide that sums up the philosphical difference b/w the two camps? |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Weapons and suits, etc still are tiered. Proto stuff still gives you an advantage, just not as much.
Not sure if you were in early builds Ydubbs, but literally a mediocre proto player could crush groups of 2-3 highly skilled players using militia gear. The militia players didn't stand a chance. Now a proto player can still easily dominate in 1v1 against militia (as long as they are the better player)
The problem people have, is that they can no longer 1v3 militia players. (unless the militia players are really bad)
This was originally my viewpoint as well. However this balance works for the current build which is a highsec only zone. What happens when there is lowsec and nullsec, should ppl be able to go into lowsec with militia gear and be competitive. IMHO no they shouldnt. The rewards and payouts are much larger there and it wouldnt be fair for corps waging large scale massive warfare in these zone to be challenged by anyone with just a basic set of gear. These areas need to noob crushing at its fullest to act as a deterrent from ppl entering until they are ready(thats the RPG side of the coin).
Yes as is the game is balanced but its being balanced around an artificial playground that only exists in this one area of the New Eden universe.
I think they should make proto gear better but not yet at least not until those other security sectors drop and they can fully flesh out their market economy and risk/reward system for these areas so that proto gear doesnt show up in the current highsec area because one death would utterly destroy any chance of profit because the payouts are so ungodly low. And if someone does put on proto gear in a highsec area they get an immediate bounty placed so the enemy team knows who they are and go after them full force so they die and it deters them from trying to noob stomp in a noob area.
Im not saying that you who say it is balanced are noobs im just trying to iterate that this area should be an area dominiated by basic to adv gear and proto gear should be the gear you need to survive in the harsher nastier lowsec/nullsec zones and that if someone tries to bring them in highsec CCP makes it so that they do it once and after they see how much of a money pit the prospect of using one of those suits in highsec is will never do it again(creating balance for the guys using miltia/adv gear in this zone) Conversely if someone tries to go into lowsec/nullsec with miltiia to Tier-III maybe even Tier IV gear they will get crushed to they will have a very difficult time of being profitable.
Once you are able to go proto you will want to use proto in lowsec/nullsec because that is where the profits are for that kind of loadout.
I think that is something that needs to be considered when we create this "balance"
Edit- As it is now i find myself being able to handle proto gear players fairly easily with my tier all BPO set which mean that i could enter nullsec with this gear and wreak havoc for EVE players and takedown territory with little time investment(1-2weeks) it will basically allow corps to fund low leveled players to take over these "precious" zone that are real areas in the New Eden universe without much time investment and without much risk for those New Eden corps.
it's nice that i can handle myself against them better for now, but it wont be nice when i can use that same low leveled gear to turn areas in the new eden universe without time invested into the game, it will utterly destroy the New Eden playground(something that has been vibrant for a decade) in the matter of weeks instead of years which is what i want for this game.
At the end of the day we need to look at Dust as an extension of the New Eden Universe and not as a separate entity and we need to realize that if we make the game too balanced around this one sector of the New Eden Universe (Highsec) then it will make the lowsec and nullsec areas too easy and volatile when they should be the most punishing and taxing sectors of the game.
But this is why i think we leave the current system as is for now so players can compete in this very small arena effectively but when lowsec/nullsec zone drop we buff the protos back while lowering the rewards and possibly raising the costs of proto in this zone to deter them from being used to pubstomp. |
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