DUST Search - So, about the Ishukeone sniper rifle

Sleepy Zan wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

William HBonney wrote:

Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field.

Actually, when you think about it, it's actually 19 plus your percentage bonuses, so if you maxed out weaponry and sniper rifle proficiency, I'm pretty sure you get a 1.4 multiplier (40% more basically, 25% from weaponry and 15% from SRP) which means you are getting 26.6 more points of damage, and that's if you don't use damage modifier modules.

Unless it has changed, I remember weaponry being a 10% damage increase when maxed out.

Also not to mention the charge was buffed as well, now with 25% skills it's doing the same amount of damage as a proto sniper could before the nerf with the old 40% addition in skills and a Complex damage mod.

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Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 03:33:00 - [1] - Quote I was finally able to play a few matches just now and I noticed that the proto sniper only does 19 more points of damage than the standard sniper. Now I understand that CCP nerfed proto gear but this seems pretty ridiculous for two weapons that have a price difference of over 30,000. Now by no means am I QQing, I will just adapt and switch to a much cheaper standard sniper over my old Ishukeone, or even better switch to the recently buffed charge sniper that deals 266 damage per shot. The normal standard sniper already gets enough one shot kills with headshots I can't imagine what the charge is capable of now with the extra bit of damage along with the skill points added onto it. I'm just questioning the logic behind these decisions is all, nerf the ishukeone be to absolutely obsolete, but clearly preventing more one shot kills from the sniper rifle isn't the objective.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.12.22 03:38:00 - [2] - Quote Get good scrub. Lol. But Ishukone is still pretty powerful, and 19 points are a lot when sniping.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 03:48:00 - [3] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Get good scrub. Lol. But Ishukone is still pretty powerful, and 19 points are a lot when sniping. Definitely not 40,000 isk better
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.12.22 04:09:00 - [4] - Quote Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field.
Jarlaxle Xorlarrin SyNergy Gaming 67	Posted - 2012.12.22 04:12:00 - [5] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. +1
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.22 04:27:00 - [6] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. damn, bonney; if you weren't an imperfect i'd say a blue dot finally what has been brought up the last 2 days :P PS: got thales sleepy ; they are yours if we get trading before a reset
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 04:52:00 - [7] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. Yep, now I do understand not making proto gear into god-mode but like you said fielding high end gear right now is really just for showing off at this point. The build before this the balance between the different levels of equipment was fine imo, yes it was more of a challenge to kill upper tier players but it was far from impossible. Anyone who complained about the gap between gear should have played the game before the hp nerf.
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Legacy Rising 49	Posted - 2012.12.22 04:57:00 - [8] - Quote I still use the Ishukone with 3x complex dmg, get a lot of OHK. 19 dmg is better than nothing and I rarely die more than a couple times in my sniper fit (sometimes not at all) so I still end up making money each round (made close to 1.5M ISK this evening). Including my assault and sprint hack fits I probably died less than 10 times in 7-8 rounds. Lost 2 Ishukone and 0 Thale. You can make some good fits with the C27-N too because of it's low CPU/PG requirements...I seem to get those more often in Salvage.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2242	Posted - 2012.12.22 05:28:00 - [9] - Quote snipers quit shooting at me on that new three point map. Nothing like having an epic battle taking out a few folks then when your down to to the last one ......pop. Wtf was that. Ishukune sniper on the kill feed.
1CLIP 1KILL Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2012.12.22 05:56:00 - [10] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: snipers quit shooting at me on that new three point map. Nothing like having an epic battle taking out a few folks then when your down to to the last one ......pop. Wtf was that. Ishukune sniper on the kill feed. Sniper alley 2.0. Did you know that on the rare occasions that I snipe from the hills/buildings behind the red line, I'm usually playing one-handed? I just get so turned on by doing it like that. I imagine other snipers are the same way.

William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.12.22 05:59:00 - [11] - Quote Ooooo three dmg mods. Seriously why cant you guys do math. If you are completely leveled you will be doing 55% extra dmg...not sure if they fixed the stacking penalty yet...but still 55% of 19 is...10 dmg....wow...so now you do 29 more damage then you would be using a different rifle....half a complex shield extender. Lowered damage without lowered prices makes running top tier weapons pointless...actually due to higher cpu and pg costs it may not even be worth it if they were cheaper.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 09:16:00 - [12] - Quote Gaff Origami wrote: I still use the Ishukone with 3x complex dmg, get a lot of OHK. 19 dmg is better than nothing and I rarely die more than a couple times in my sniper fit (sometimes not at all) so I still end up making money each round (made close to 1.5M ISK this evening). Including my assault and sprint hack fits I probably died less than 10 times in 7-8 rounds. Lost 2 Ishukone and 0 Thale. You can make some good fits with the C27-N too because of it's low CPU/PG requirements...I seem to get those more often in Salvage. Three damage mods on a standard sniper would work just fine. It still stands that there is even less incentive to skill up into higher tier snipers when the gap between a standard sniper and a proto sniper nearly doubles in favor of the standard.
Daddrobit Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 277	Posted - 2012.12.22 12:32:00 - [13] - Quote Yeah, the standard tac rifle and militia variant are the only ones I run anymore. If you were using those slots for damage mods, dump 'em and put on 3 complex shield extenders. Let's do some math, (although I am going off of memory, so some might be off very slightly.) A standard does something like 190 damage base. With only weapons and proficiency 5, you do 25% more damage, bolstering it to 237.5. With 3 damage mods at 55%, you get 294.5. Using a proto that does 209 damage, with 55%, you get 323.95, a fair amount, enough to one hit the occasional scout. The difference between a standard rifle with no damage mods is 86.45 damage, again, a good amount. However, if you aren't using your slots for damage mods, chances are, you'll have /something/ there, and then chances are, it's going to be shield extenders. 3 complex shield extenders add to an additional 198 damage that you can take. Boom, you've just negated more than twice over the difference created by 3 damage mods on a maxed out proto weapon over a naked standard. You now /have/ to get a headshot on me to take me out in one shot. And if you were going to headshot me anyways, a standard with headshot bonus gets you 463.125 anyways, still enough to one shot most people. And once damage mods start stacking correctly, the negligibility between the two will become more and more apparent.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.12.22 15:32:00 - [14] - Quote I get OHK'd by snipers in a freaking Heavy suit sith over 800 eHp. That kind of annoys me.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.22 17:07:00 - [15] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. Actually, when you think about it, it's actually 19 plus your percentage bonuses, so if you maxed out weaponry and sniper rifle proficiency, I'm pretty sure you get a 1.4 multiplier (40% more basically, 25% from weaponry and 15% from SRP) which means you are getting 26.6 more points of damage, and that's if you don't use damage modifier modules.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 17:10:00 - [16] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. Actually, when you think about it, it's actually 19 plus your percentage bonuses, so if you maxed out weaponry and sniper rifle proficiency, I'm pretty sure you get a 1.4 multiplier (40% more basically, 25% from weaponry and 15% from SRP) which means you are getting 26.6 more points of damage, and that's if you don't use damage modifier modules. Unless it has changed, I remember weaponry being a 10% damage increase when maxed out. Also not to mention the charge was buffed as well, now with 25% skills it's doing the same amount of damage as a proto sniper could before the nerf with the old 40% addition in skills and a Complex damage mod.
Leovarian L Lavitz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 278	Posted - 2012.12.22 17:22:00 - [17] - Quote weaponry is a 2% per level skill
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.12.22 17:23:00 - [18] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Logi Bro wrote: William HBonney wrote: Actually 19 points is nothing when sniping maybe on a tac sniper, but on a normal sniper it is worthless. Calculate the dps and you will see. They closed the gap to make it more noob friendly but sadly they are just removing incentive for people to play and level...there is no more...oh man I cant wait until I can use "x." Because that is not worth the risk in isk to field. Actually, when you think about it, it's actually 19 plus your percentage bonuses, so if you maxed out weaponry and sniper rifle proficiency, I'm pretty sure you get a 1.4 multiplier (40% more basically, 25% from weaponry and 15% from SRP) which means you are getting 26.6 more points of damage, and that's if you don't use damage modifier modules. Unless it has changed, I remember weaponry being a 10% damage increase when maxed out. Also not to mention the charge was buffed as well, now with 25% skills it's doing the same amount of damage as a proto sniper could before the nerf with the old 40% addition in skills and a Complex damage mod. That's my bad, it is 10%, but my original idea still stands, you just get a 1.25 multiplier instead, which isn't as impressive, but still you get a larger increase than before.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.22 17:37:00 - [19] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: That's my bad, it is 10%, but my original idea still stands, you just get a 1.25 multiplier instead, which isn't as impressive, but still you get a larger increase than before. Even then it's still not that significant, you have only widened the gap by about 4-5 point. Frankly, it's not worth it along with the price and 3x more CPU and PG usage.
dethpuke Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2012.12.23 14:17:00 - [20] - Quote The HP difference is kinda null when you think about the range. Seems to me that the Protos have better range than the lower tiers. I've gone 1 on 1 with Sleepy and some of the other top Snipers in the game using all the different types of sniper rifles and even with my skills staying the same with Long Rang Sharpshooting Prof. and Sniper Rifle Prof. I get hits at longer range with the Proto rifles. And like Sleppy I pound the ground with troops and that little bit more range helps to snipe someone coming in full bore with a Duvall(Sorry bout the spelling)AR getting hits on me, across the board and that's not using a TAC Sniper Rifle. Add in the scope on the TAC and range is a major player. Also, I have had more hit detection issues with the lower tier rifles than with the Protos. I will get 2 or 3 kills in a row and then suddenly I stop getting hits. I can unload a full mag on a player and no hits. I go restock my ammo and maybe, just maybe I start getting hits again. I have actually had to commit suicide and come in again to start getting hits. With the Proto rifles, the same issue doesn't appear as often. When ur on a hill this is annoyin but when running the ground, it's an instant death.

Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES 53	Posted - 2012.12.23 15:50:00 - [21] - Quote Charge Sniper Rifle: 50 RPM Ishukone Sniper Rifle: 100 RPM I believe the Ishukone is a lot like the Tac Sniper Rifle. It does mediocre damage but has very little recoil and the ability to squeeze out a second shot, sometimes, before the enemy can react. So what you really have to do is double the damage of the Ishokune to see it's true damage. It's meant to shoot another shot faster so even though you don't get a headshot, you still can do more damage over time than the regular or even the Charge Sniper Rifle. And then if you get 2 headshots... :O
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.23 16:00:00 - [22] - Quote Yeah, this change is pretty stupid. I switched my LAV turrets from prototype to advanced just because advanced are now about the same as prototype- only far cheaper and easier to fit.
RECON BY FIRE BetaMax. 51	Posted - 2012.12.23 16:49:00 - [23] - Quote What about the differance in zoom? Doesnt the Ishukone have a better zoom than the lower tier rifles (except for maybe the TAC)?
dethpuke Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:12:00 - [24] - Quote Zoom on protos is the same as the lower tier rifles. TAC zoom is also the same on all rifles.
1CLIP 1KILL Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:16:00 - [25] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Charge Sniper Rifle: 50 RPM Ishukone Sniper Rifle: 100 RPM I believe the Ishukone is a lot like the Tac Sniper Rifle. It does mediocre damage but has very little recoil and the ability to squeeze out a second shot, sometimes, before the enemy can react. So what you really have to do is double the damage of the Ishokune to see it's true damage. It's meant to shoot another shot faster so even though you don't get a headshot, you still can do more damage over time than the regular or even the Charge Sniper Rifle. And then if you get 2 headshots... :O You're mixing up all the rifles. Kaal is tac, not Ish. Plus, charge rifle needs to charge. Use them before making comments about how others should use them :P.
Alixenus Omega protection service 36	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:43:00 - [26] - Quote CCP dares to sabotage Ishukone? Those Gallente loving scum! Mens Reppola shall hear of this! On a sidenote: dafuq does QQ mean?


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