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NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen rediculously strong tanks on the battle field that not even A full clip of missiles from my Darkside swarm launcher, (I'm also running a Complex light damage mod +10%) 2 others using swarms of unknown type and a forge gunner this tank took it all, killed us one at a time then drove off and ran someone over. The moral of this story is that all tanks can be absurdly strong but you have to put a crapload of points into it.
Just like in EVE just because you have the minimum amount of skill to get into one doesn't mean you should. Train up your tanking skills, toss in some resist mods as well as just extenders or plates, get a repper of some sort and you'll find that vehicles are alot stronger than you think. Not to mention most of the time vehicles are support units they aren't meant to be weapons of mass destruction that roll entire teams alone, work with your team cover them and have them cover you. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
WHz DS9899 wrote:Ok so Having over 3 million sp into my HAV and climbing everyday isn't enough? While you have to put in what, 3 million to get the perfect role for a fit? And that's not eve taking into how much these fittings cost compaired to your most expensive ones. My cheapest tank is so much more expensive than your most expensive suit. Yet you can one shot me? Then you got to take in the fact that the only way to have any help is by getting a person that will repair you, and I haven't found a single person who would. You think that being able to one shot someone that's spent way more is fair, but it isn't. First, the militia Forge Gun needs to become weaker, second, the AV grenades needs to be far weaker than they are, as I've been one shotted from them as well, by standard ones, with proto resistances active,and The bug to where militia swarms can one shot needs to be fixed, because it's making me lose money.
^ To that I can only laugh. Do you REALLY put shield or armour resists on your tank? You insist it is a "one shot" But there is absolutely no weapon that can one shot a tank other than someone with no or very little skill in a malitia tank. Even trained to max with damage mods no single weapon can one shot a solid tank. Period. As for Malitia forge guns, just like all malitia gear they have the same stats as TI weapons they just take more CPU and Grid to fit them, the fact in this case being only heavies can fit a forge gun and they have a rather large amount of CPU/Grid to play with.
Not to mention that they actually won't hit as hard as your typical TI seeing as you need to train weaponry to Lvl V which would add an additional 10% damage. So already they are weaker than your average forge gun. And really you've been "one shot" by AV grenades? Those things barely have enough in them to blow up a LAV and if you put a tank on a LAV and it'll survive one so how your "Expensive, Proto resist, 3mil SP HAV fit tank" can be "one shot" is well... it's impossible. Tanks are not meant to sit and take sustained fire they are made to flank and maneuver. You shoot you move or get near some cover shoot and fal back if needed, sitting in the open will get you killed. Also another handy tip from EVE 'If you can't afford to lose it don't use it'. You say you're losing money? Then stop using it until A) you have enough isk and B) you have a better tank on it so it won't die to all these magical "one shots", simple. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 15:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
WHz DS9899 wrote:NovaShadowStorm wrote:WHz DS9899 wrote:Ok so Having over 3 million sp into my HAV and climbing everyday isn't enough? While you have to put in what, 3 million to get the perfect role for a fit? And that's not eve taking into how much these fittings cost compaired to your most expensive ones. My cheapest tank is so much more expensive than your most expensive suit. Yet you can one shot me? Then you got to take in the fact that the only way to have any help is by getting a person that will repair you, and I haven't found a single person who would. You think that being able to one shot someone that's spent way more is fair, but it isn't. First, the militia Forge Gun needs to become weaker, second, the AV grenades needs to be far weaker than they are, as I've been one shotted from them as well, by standard ones, with proto resistances active,and The bug to where militia swarms can one shot needs to be fixed, because it's making me lose money. ^ To that I can only laugh. Do you REALLY put shield or armour resists on your tank? You insist it is a "one shot" But there is absolutely no weapon that can one shot a tank other than someone with no or very little skill in a malitia tank. Even trained to max with damage mods no single weapon can one shot a solid tank. Period. As for Malitia forge guns, just like all malitia gear they have the same stats as TI weapons they just take more CPU and Grid to fit them, the fact in this case being only heavies can fit a forge gun and they have a rather large amount of CPU/Grid to play with. Not to mention that they actually won't hit as hard as your typical TI seeing as you need to train weaponry to Lvl V which would add an additional 10% damage. So already they are weaker than your average forge gun. And really you've been "one shot" by AV grenades? Those things barely have enough in them to blow up a LAV and if you put a tank on a LAV and it'll survive one so how your "Expensive, Proto resist, 3mil SP HAV fit tank" can be "one shot" is well... it's impossible. Tanks are not meant to sit and take sustained fire they are made to flank and maneuver. You shoot you move or get near some cover shoot and fal back if needed, sitting in the open will get you killed. Also another handy tip from EVE 'If you can't afford to lose it don't use it'. You say you're losing money? Then stop using it until A) you have enough isk and B) you have a better tank on it so it won't die to all these magical "one shots", simple. I call BS on that entire reply. HAV's ARE ment to soak up fire. and it's not impossible when it's happened several times to me. I've even seen sagris's get blown up by one standerd AV grenade... a fully fitted Sagris shouldn't be done like that. And what does it matter that only heavies can fit them? Most people that's skilled toward ground troops have have heavy skills by now (or should have them anyways). They would also have Forge Gun skills, and grandier skills at max. How about this: you try using a HAV and see how fast just one AV grenade kills you. You see how fast just one Forge Gun kills you. And don't tell me how to drive my HAV. I move around the map, and give help where needed. It's not fair when I get one shotted by a Forge Gun sitting in a hill that I can't even hit them at. HAV's are not supposed to be glass cannons, LAV's especially the high tier ones shouldn't be made out of paper, and the ShitShips souldn't be ****. For a 600k HAV, I should be able to without turning on any modules, take at least 8 Forge Gun shots before dying, a fully fitted T1 LAV should be able to take 4, and a fully fitted T1 Dropship should be able to take 5 At advanced level Forge guns (regular). None of them should one shot something that costs way more.
Ugh... the webpage ate my post and it was a long one too... ok main points since I'm too lazy to type it all out again.
1. There is no way in hell a standard AV grenade can deal over 6k Damage to OHK a Sarg
2. I with no HAV skills have a Sica shield tank that for 500k can take at least 3-4 FG blasts before going boom so long as I rep early enough, if you wiith your 3 mil SP, proto resists and expensive tank can't match me then you sir FAIL.
3. TANKS ARE NOT INVICIBLE. They are not made to sit in open space and take fire they can take hits but can't sit in sustained fire which is a stupid thing to do anyway.
4. AV weapons are called AV weapons because surprisingly enough they are made to take out vehicles. Yet there is no way in hell any AV weapon fully trained or not can take out a well tanked tank in 1 hit it is IMPOSSIBLE. A standard AV grenade taking out a full shield, full armour, well fit Sarg is even more impossible and the biggest joke of all.
5.I have come across tanks I haven't been able to blow up even with a few other s helping me with Swarms and FG's and it was a freaking Soma so they can be made insanley hard to kill what ever you're doing you're doing it wrong.
6.Get your skills up and if you don't like losing that mush isk... STOP DEPLOYING TANKS!!!!
7.If you must continue to argue this with me then do this before you post again find a match where someone has a tank, use AV weaponry whether it's a Malitia FG, Swarm or your "Holy AV grenade" and see if you can OHK it I am willing to bet you won't be able to. Thus rendering your argument moot.
End of Story. Good day sir. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 13:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
WHz DS9899 wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Django Quik wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It takes 3 shots for a bad forge to take out my best LAV (with my actives going), by the time they're ready to fire the second shot, they'll already be under my tires.
Regardless, this is pretty stupid. Not sure what your point is here? You've got a great LAV that can withstand these apparently OP FGs? Well done - I am genuinely impressed. And to the guy saying 7k shields on his tank aren't enough - you must not be using your tank very well then because when I generally see tanks like that on the field, it's a serious challenge and takes a really coordinated effort to take them down. That is unless they are driven badly and left out in the open with their rear weak spot on display. I've said it before and it was mentioned a couple of posts back but it really doesn't matter how expensive your suit/jeep/tank/ship are, cheaper things can and should be able to take it down - in real life one hit from an ANTI-TANK weapon is a serious problem for standard tanks; this is because they are specially designed to take tanks down. But real life tanks cost thousands of times more than those weapons. The answer? Those real life tank drivers don't whinge and moan that ANTI-TANK weapons are too powerful; they learn how to avoid and counter them; they have squads of tanks working together. What we see on Dust is pretty much always a single tank on its own with not so much as infantry backing it up. Often these tanks don't even have more than a driver inside manning the turrets! This is insane and stupid. You want to protect your millions of isk investments? Stop trying to single handedly stomp the enemy on your own! Exactly. Couple this with the fact that in order to use the "OP" Swarm Launcher you have to dedicate your main weapon slot to it. Leaving you with a less efficient pistol or SMG as your anti-infantry weapon. Forge Guns arent really all that much better either. Ive taken out plenty of Forge Gunners trying to take out my little assault guy doing his fairy dance and it usually doesnt work out for them very well. Ive even chucked some AV grenades at a tank one time and it didnt do nearly what I thought it would. AV options are exactly where they should be. My only complaint is how the Swarm fires sometimes and how it always aims for the base of installations now that results in misses quite a bit. 1: either of these weapons can be fired from the redline, or on a mountain, while I won't be able to even shoot back. 2: If you can't use a Forge gun, scrambler pistol, or SMG as a primary, then you are bad. 3: AV grenades are even worse than SL's and FG's 4: People can even hide behind things and if anyone (even a sniper in the back of the map) on the other team has LoS of you, can fire off rounds and hit HAV's, which is just sad. 5: With skills and modules, You can have a Forge gun deal out over 8k damage, and AV grenades deal out about 7k damage. I don't know about SL's but it'll most likely be around that damage range. 6: The highest you can make the shield/armor without severly limiting yourself is about 7k-10k. Like I said, I've seen, and have gotten My own HAV's 1-2 shotted, and it still happens. Also, I've noticed that the CPU/PG of qll vehicles, as well as their armor/shields, plus the values for some important modules have been nerfed.... again. WHY? Really, I wouldn't mind if all the damage values for all turrets got nerfed (although missiles are a oke and need fixing) as long as tanking abilities got fixed. O and the active resist modules actually worked as well would be nice, becuase they litterally don't work.
So since you're still here arguing this I assume you've gone out and OHK some tanks have you? Blown them up with a single shot from a Malita FG or a standard AV grenade? Tell me you have, come on for all this complaining you must have tried the other side of this.
If AV weapons are as strong as you say you should be raking in WP every match especially with your OHK AV grenades. Come on tell me how many Tanks you've OHK'd with them, in fact tell me how many things you've OHK'd with them that aren't the Malitia LAV's because that is like the only thing that a standard AV grenade can kill in 1 hit. As for me I came across a tank in a battle the other day. On those small Asia gameshow servers. Had half the team using Swarms, AV grenades, FGs and could not kill it well at least for half the time of the map, eventually killed it but then he respawned and brought in another after his team took out all the AV users. And you can't fall back on well your team's AV gear must of sucked because according to you ANY AV gear is OP and can OHK a tank and even more so should more than one hit land at a time. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 21:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Encharrion wrote:While the OP is clearly exaggerating, I do believe there is a problem here. This problem is that the vehicles in DUST 514 are too fragile to invest in. I would trade any other stat on my vehicles for more defense, I would trade damage, or speed, or both. Why? Because in a worst case scenario, I would prefer something that creates minimal effect on the battlefield but survives to the end than something that has a big impact for the 10 seconds it takes to wipe it out. I spent money on those vehicles, I don't want to have to constantly replace them when they cost so much. Low health - High cost does not work.
I understand in relative terms yes vehicles are seemingly a tad on the fragile side however with a really good fit it's incredibly hard to kill them. For now I recommend getting your shield/armour skills up your fitting skills up (CPU/Grid mods) Then fitting a strong tank at the expense of using weaker weapons. Drive around get a feel of it don't try to kill things just try to survive, then after you get a small feel for it start trying to kill stuff. |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 08:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
WHz DS9899 wrote:Got a alt to be able to use proto Forge Guns, put some modules on the heavy suit, and blew up 3 tanks, 2 of them was a one shot, and the other was a 2 shot. Tried out AV grenades, and their just as strong. Lastly, I tried the Swarms, and their weaker, but not by much, and they can shoot from across the map. DOn't tell me I don't know how AV feels, because I do. stupidly OP.
Yeah my point made exactly. Congratulations. You sank a large deal of points into your AV spec to be able to do that not just grabbed any malitia weapon with no training and was able to do it like you're claiming. And I am still calling BS on a standard AV grenade being as strong as a proto FG because that is simply impossible. May as well have scout suits running around with AV grenades just sprinting up and lobbing them at tanks if they're that strong. And Swarms can shoot from almost all the way across the map but that relies heavily on 2 things 1. Being able to get a lock which often you can't at such ranges and 2. The tracking in the swarms seems to run out just as it gets to the other side and if you can see them coming from that far away it's not hard to avoid them they don't go around corners if you drive behind cover when they're half a map away. Really how many maps do you know that are so flat and obstacle free that you can hit someone with swarms from across the map while they are moving about? |
NovaShadowStorm
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 08:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
WHz DS9899 wrote:NovaShadowStorm wrote:Encharrion wrote:While the OP is clearly exaggerating, I do believe there is a problem here. This problem is that the vehicles in DUST 514 are too fragile to invest in. I would trade any other stat on my vehicles for more defense, I would trade damage, or speed, or both. Why? Because in a worst case scenario, I would prefer something that creates minimal effect on the battlefield but survives to the end than something that has a big impact for the 10 seconds it takes to wipe it out. I spent money on those vehicles, I don't want to have to constantly replace them when they cost so much. Low health - High cost does not work. I understand in relative terms yes vehicles are seemingly a tad on the fragile side however with a really good fit it's incredibly hard to kill them. For now I recommend getting your shield/armour skills up your fitting skills up (CPU/Grid mods) Then fitting a strong tank at the expense of using weaker weapons. Drive around get a feel of it don't try to kill things just try to survive, then after you get a small feel for it start trying to kill stuff. I can use all proto defensive modules, both T2 HAV's, and almost can use proto turrets. I have over 8k eHP, and spent about5m. SP just on making my HAV's really hard to kill. But because active resist modules don't work, blasters have **** range, Railguns have no splash, missiles got nerfed to hell, and AV's can hide in places that I can't even hit them, it's just not fair.
Drive into places that you aren't easy to hit, keep moving, hit from the flanks, support your team because they will support you in turn. And I used my tank the other day my Sica, no HAV training, managed to last a good 6 mins took out about 10 people, survived a few FG blasts and AV grenades and a few swarms (not all at once) until someone hit me with a Advanced forge twice in rapid succession. Again TANKS ARE NOT INVINCIBLE. What you want just won't happen, back a few major patches ago tanks were that strong swarms did jack all, FG's could only chip at shields and a whole team rolled in tanks killing everything in their sights. You would rather that again since that seems more fair to you that a team that has tanks should obviously win against a team that doesn't? Once again I have seen rediculously strong tanks around that are so freaking hard to kill. Just like Dropship pilots had to adapt after they changed them from easy flying to that new helicopter flying style, you have to change how you play because if you are dying that quickly with all that proto gear then you're staying in sights of people far too long. |
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