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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.16 14:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll say the same thing I always say to this topic when someone makes a new thread...
Doesn't work.
We're NOT playing in the finished game universe. We aren't relying on a player marketplace with fluctuating prices for everything. The game CAN'T accurately measure how much ISK you spent in a match, because gear WON'T HAVE A FIXED VALUE.
In some places, that AR you paid 5,000 ISK for might cost you 20,000. One of your friends might sell you one for 3,000.
EVE has "material value" which is used for insurance, and is signifcantly LESS than a sale or purchase price will be for the item. They could have a similar system for DUST, but it wouldn't really tell you how much ISK you lost. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.18 03:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
SickJ wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
We're NOT playing in the finished game universe. We aren't relying on a player marketplace with fluctuating prices for everything. The game CAN'T accurately measure how much ISK you spent in a match, because gear WON'T HAVE A FIXED VALUE.
So how about we just get stats for the current value of the gear we lost?
Current value where?
The planet you're on?
The average value of the gear for the system you're currently in?
Some arbitratily-determined location you may or may not have access to?
Or use a system like the game uses for insurance, and measure material value? Like I already suggested.
No matter what figure you work from, the numbers won't (and shouldn't) be 100% accurate to how much you spent on the gear. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to give players an indicator of item value, just that it's not going to be an absolutely accurate "you spent and were given Y so you made Z profit" that doesn't require you to put any thought in for yourself. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.18 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:NovaShadowStorm wrote:
And lets have your "basic maths" solve this one for me, say a suit is worth 10k in material. 3 people buy it one buys from a seller who sells high but sells in an easily accessible location so person 1 buys for say 15k, person 2 buys from a distant system to get a better price and gets it at 12k and finally person 3 buys from a friend who manufactures them and is willing to sell at a very slim profit and gets it at 10.2k all 3 die in a battle how much isk should be displayed on the screen that each lost taking into account the game can't tell how much they bought the suit for?
Love Story Problems. This is too easy. Player 1 lost 15k per death, player 2 lost 12k per death, and player 3 lost 10.2k per death. They all take their total loss and subtract it from their total winnings. They put the price they paid in the fitting name and were able to calculate their losses. However, I will take it a step further to satisfy your hunger. Say the sellers bumped up their price by 2k. Now when they go to restock, it is more expensive right? Truth is, that doesn't apply. The suits only cost them 15k, 12k, and 10.2k at the time. From then on, however, they couldn't have the same fit for the same price, so they must rename their suits and adjust their calculations from then on. It's not all that hard. Just take the price you bought them at, multiply it by deaths per fitting, and subtract that number from total earnings. "Elementary my dear Watson"
And then when you start looking in-depth at things, you get slightly more complicated stories.
Quote:I bought one set of this fitting in X system, and it came to a total of 8,000 ISK, a little below the market average thanks to a discount I got through a friend of a corpmate. I died testing it, but it worked, so I decided I was going to restock and use it more often.
Then I bought 3 more at the market average of 10k from a HighSec NPC seller. Later on, I got 6 fittings' worth of gear for this fitting as loot from the battlefield, costing nothing, but spent another 8k on the dropsuits required to complete them, because I was in Nullsec and behind enemy lines at the time.
In that time, I lost 7 of these suits. How much ISK did that cost, and what should I have listed as the 'price' of the suit?
You can see how calculations like this are just going to build up exponentially, right? I'm not saying the game should hand us everything on a silver platter (far from it, I'm closer to agreeing with you than the other guys), but it would be nice if we got a "standard market value" listing for the suits, or a "material value" listing - something that gives an indication of your costs, but doesn't necessarily tell you specifically how much ISK you just spend when you get blown up (and lets you work that out for yourself).
EDIT: put story into quote tags. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.18 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:At least you made a good reasoning I will give you that. It's just that I hate to see the human species devolve so much as to become completely reliant on a computer to do basic math.
I definitely won't argue with that.
But sometimes, the math you'll need in DUST is a few steps beyond "basic" and a bit of a helping hand is a reasonable request.
Like I already said though, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the game to do ALL the math for you, which is why I think they should have a less precise estimated value for your suits, instead of the game working from the exact price you'll pay for replacements, or the exact price you paid to buy each fitting you lost. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.19 01:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Im actually looking forward to this game to practice economics and trade. I feel like it will be equally a business tycoon simulator. I want to do phony business to understand real business better, you know?
But I want to practice probability and calculations on my own sometimes, it keeps me sharp.
That reminds me of my latest blog post.
Cross Atu wrote:Bojo & Garrett,
I think you guys are missing the main value of this feature. It's not a matter of having it as a "auto-calculator" for the player, it's main value is to track stats as a corp or alliance. Sure having the feature there for an individual player could make things easier, but it's the organization of larger groups and coordination where it becomes of significant value. A player could manually track their ISK gain/loss ratio, but a CEO (let alone an Alliance head) cannot realistically cover that manually, nor can it reasonably expected that 70-1000 people can be organized to track all of this manually. In addition to all of that it's useful for both recruiting members and for deciding on who to offer contracts/who to take contracts with/against.
And for that purpose, having the game track material value destroyed vs. material value lost would be more than sufficient. |
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