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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 01:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let's discuss
Because what is the point of the proto suit besides the extra slot? I can use a B-series Assault suit and have all that I'll need. Theree needs to be some sort of justification for the proto suit cost. The Bseries is twice as much as the type II yet the VK.1 is more than 4 times the Bseries!
If you've happen to die in a stocked up proto suit more than once, you've already lost money. There has to be an incentive to use it.....cause quite frankly, people see "PRO" and they think he's OP now. But it just offers an extra high and low slot and they die just the same.
There's a difference when you graduate from militia to Type II or Type II to Bseries. But Bseries to Proto is little difference because you can pretty much tango in any situation in a Bseries suit with 3 highs and 2 lows.
I don't know.....what do you guys think? I think the higher the suit is, the more base armor & shields it should have. So, the proto should have more than the Bseries and the Bseries should have more than the Type II |
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki
Onward Defrosted Tuna Team
485
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 01:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
With the current way matches are filled they don't need more hp. but when people are separated based on what they want to bring into a battle this would be fine. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
211
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 01:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
dear god man have you ever had to fight against a proto suit?? yes they are ridiculously expensive so people wont non stop spam them. and those extra slots can be used to great effect.
there is a reason most teams will play the initial game in militia suits and in the last five mins of the game swap to proto. That way the likely hood of loosing the suit before the end of the game is minimized. besides that extra 80 shield you can add with that on slot or 10%dmg means that you can play way worse then some one and still com out alive and them dead. Will you be able to roll lone wolf taking on multiple guys at once? no you shouldn't be able to.
proto suits are beefy enough with out an increase in shields and armor, they change the course of almost every battle I see them in.
ps if you are rolling in a scout or heavy, yes the extra slots don't help much but that has more to do with the proto assualt/AR combo being op as **** then with the failings of the current proto suits. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
For now, it should stay the way it is.
Ultimately, how it should work out is that there should be a new tier every level of something- the price, fitting requirements, and overall effectiveness should gradually increase. If CCP can fill the gaps between standard and advanced, then advanced and proto, they can afford to make proto more effectice. |
StrafeN AnD HeadShotN
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
67
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Posted - 2012.12.16 02:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:
ps if you are rolling in a scout or heavy, yes the extra slots don't help much but that has more to do with the proto assualt/AR combo being op as **** then with the failings of the current proto suits.
This is why Titian is a no name corp... just saying tho |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:dear god man have you ever had to fight against a proto suit?? yes they are ridiculously expensive so people wont non stop spam them. and those extra slots can be used to great effect.
there is a reason most teams will play the initial game in militia suits and in the last five mins of the game swap to proto. That way the likely hood of loosing the suit before the end of the game is minimized. besides that extra 80 shield you can add with that on slot or 10%dmg means that you can play way worse then some one and still com out alive and them dead. Will you be able to roll lone wolf taking on multiple guys at once? no you shouldn't be able to.
proto suits are beefy enough with out an increase in shields and armor, they change the course of almost every battle I see them in.
ps if you are rolling in a scout or heavy, yes the extra slots don't help much but that has more to do with the proto assualt/AR combo being op as **** then with the failings of the current proto suits.
You're not taking on a proto suit...you're taking on the player in a proto suit. Same guys that was probably doing damage with standard gear.
This will actually give some people a better chance. Having that extra slot for 4x the price isn't even really worth it. That's why I sgugest that all suits have an increase in base health as you advance...for all classes |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
253
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 02:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
They changed it this way because the difference in gear was wayyy too much back in older builds. I think the suits are fine the way they are now personally, the extra slots and CPU/PG are very nice :o |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.12.16 03:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Standard assault suits =4 module slots (2 high, 2 low) Advanced assault suits= 5 module slots (3 high, 2 low) Proto assault suits= 7 module slots and 2 equipment slots (4 high, 3 low)
So the difference between standard-proto are 3 module slots and ALOT CPU/PG. Knowing that you can fit much more expensive gear on proto suits as you would be aible to do on a standard or advanced. Another thing is the proto assault suits are capable to carry 2 equipment which in my opinion should be used for nano hives and a nano injector. When you maxed out your CPU/PG skills you have a walking behemoth that will stomp on anything when you are willing to put enough ISK into it. You just simply have the freedom to fit your proto suit however you want to. Giving better suits even more a advantage would be gamebreaking and thats why CCP removed the HP bonus from all dropsuits. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2012.12.16 03:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think the suits should improve according to their speciality: Logistics already accomplish this with higher capacity. At the moment, proto heavies & scouts just aren't worth the cash, but improving their capacity wouldn't make sense. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 03:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Modules need more oumph if they keep suit hp as is. as it stands right now i dont see the benifit of going higher level modules. |
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xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
if anything there should be greater mobility in the proto suits. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:They changed it this way because the difference in gear was wayyy too much back in older builds. I think the suits are fine the way they are now personally, the extra slots and CPU/PG are very nice :o
this. the huge advantage gear gave u back in older builds was alot worse than it is now ppl complain how guys run around in proto suits this build imagine if they played back in the old builds like i did lol
extra CPU/PG and fitting slots give enough of an advantage already with being able to fit alot more higher tier gear than lower tier suits so absolutely no need to add more base health on higher tier suits.....too much of a crutch
PS: Proto heavy vk.1 suit........CCP........fix the price.......quarter mill for the suit alone? gtfo |
Sytonis Auran
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
52
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Standard assault suits =4 module slots (2 high, 2 low) Advanced assault suits= 5 module slots (3 high, 2 low) Proto assault suits= 7 module slots and 2 equipment slots (4 high, 3 low)
So the difference between standard-proto are 3 module slots and ALOT CPU/PG. Knowing that you can fit much more expensive gear on proto suits as you would be aible to do on a standard or advanced. Another thing is the proto assault suits are capable to carry 2 equipment which in my opinion should be used for nano hives and a nano injector. When you maxed out your CPU/PG skills you have a walking behemoth that will stomp on anything when you are willing to put enough ISK into it. You just simply have the freedom to fit your proto suit however you want to. Giving better suits even more a advantage would be gamebreaking and thats why CCP removed the HP bonus from all dropsuits.
Exactly, spot on. The advantages of higher meta suits are the extra fitting and extra module slots. I don't see the need to stack extra HP on top of that.
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jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
back in the old days, the different levels did have different HP and it did actually cause a bit of a stir when they where changed.
CCP argued it was for balance and that the different levels with all the modules and health caused way too much difference, making a newbie with militia almost impossible to kill a full proto, and that is sorta the case still, but back then it was much worse.
I personally liked the Health difference, right now there are some suits that have little to no point to be upgraded beyond advanced like the heavy |
Dust Goon
Doomheim
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
You'll see bonus's added to suits in the future, possibly the next build. Such as Assault dropsuits doing a bonus % of damage with AR's or reduced CPU/PG use of AR's etc
It will allow suits to have a specific purpose. Logi suits get a reduction in fitting requirements for logitools for example of faster cycle times etc.
There are plans to diversify the suits and give them more purpose. |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just for perspective's sake, in Replication I could take out multiple Heavy's with the HMG of old, in a Prototype Assault Suit with a decent AR. Badassery on a whole new level. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 04:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:if anything there should be greater mobility in the proto suits.
That's the beauty of having more slots and CPU and pg, if you want a speedy assault, build one. Want one to tank damage? Build it. Want one that will dish out damage? You guessed it, build it. You can have hives + injector/ REs/ Proxy Mines/ uplink or whatever else you can put into equip slot.
With adv. and proto. you get more flexabilty to do what you want, all at a price. This is all based on assault dropsuits, not sure on other suits but one idea to get heavies into proto, give them a equip slot, I'm sure you would see a ton of fatties in this suit. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 05:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why not suits with increased Hp, and less modules? For example a VK2 suit with 225 base shield, 175 base armour, but only 3 high and 3 low slots, and only a single equipment slot. Slower movement too. CCP can play around with new suit variants for the next 7 years, so I think tbh were all pretty happy as things are.
IMHO the problem comes when damage mods receive a stacking bonus. I dont think I like the reduction in overall hp, combined with no decrease in the overall weapon damage, except a 5% reduction in weaponry (SMG too but meh).
Answer? More suits, and add racial modifiers to each suit archetype. Without muffing balance totally. |
Super Cargo
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 06:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Extra slots = more damage or more shield health or more weapons/equipment.
You are getting a buff, you just have to choose what you buff. I don't support adding additional health on top of a suit that can stack shield extenders, armor extenders, and damage improvements. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 07:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Let's discuss
Because what is the point of the proto suit besides the extra slot? I can use a B-series Assault suit and have all that I'll need. Theree needs to be some sort of justification for the proto suit cost. The Bseries is twice as much as the type II yet the VK.1 is more than 4 times the Bseries!
If you've happen to die in a stocked up proto suit more than once, you've already lost money. There has to be an incentive to use it.....cause quite frankly, people see "PRO" and they think he's OP now. But it just offers an extra high and low slot and they die just the same.
There's a difference when you graduate from militia to Type II or Type II to Bseries. But Bseries to Proto is little difference because you can pretty much tango in any situation in a Bseries suit with 3 highs and 2 lows.
I don't know.....what do you guys think? I think the higher the suit is, the more base armor & shields it should have. So, the proto should have more than the Bseries and the Bseries should have more than the Type II
HELL NO!!!!!!
In Replication when a Heavy had 1500 HP in just armour PLUS whatever plates were stacked on the reaction when turning a corner and seeing a protoheavy was this:
RUN!!! if you want to live!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxgLwrW9h_A
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 07:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wait, in older builds the suits had more health? I didn't know that....ok, so they tried it and it didn't work. Hmm, ok then....forget it |
Vexen Krios
Doomheim
95
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 08:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah there were a lot of complaints about it because u couldn't get sp in games cuz of proto guys owning the battles but they also had the farming issue too. So they should do it again increase health of the suits as u advance the tiers.maybe by like 50 for both shields and armor get the biggest jump from lvl 1 to advanced and less as you progress but still offer it. The problem was ppl sp farming to get to proto. If they did it now it would make more sense. A militia ar or smg shouldn be able to take down a proto imo |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 09:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
A long long time ago (I.E before this build) the prices on the suits weren't so high and there -were- HP increases with the advanced/prototype suits. It made having them all the more useful.
Then they standardized everything.
Then they increased the prices.
Now you have issues like the Amarrian Heavy Suit which isn't honestly worth having for the amount you're paying for it.
I'm cool with one or the other but having both really hits the suits hard. Sure, you're not -supposed- to use them all the time but there should be a point to using them - if you're going to spend the same amount of isk on a Prototype suit (and it's fit) as you would a FRIGATE in Eve Online, there should be a lot more benefit to having it.
And let's face it - being run over by some jack off in an LAV and losing -that much ISK- over a pointless and stupid death is just silly. I argued that much over the Dropships being used to bump into people and kill them, I'll argue it to death until something changes with the prototype suits. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 09:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Wait, in older builds the suits had more health? I didn't know that....ok, so they tried it and it didn't work. Hmm, ok then....forget it
As stated in my post - they had more HP and were a LOT less expensive. Now the prices don't match up with the quality of the product. |
Mikel Dracionas
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 10:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Let's discuss
Because what is the point of the proto suit besides the extra slot? I can use a B-series Assault suit and have all that I'll need. Theree needs to be some sort of justification for the proto suit cost. The Bseries is twice as much as the type II yet the VK.1 is more than 4 times the Bseries!
If you've happen to die in a stocked up proto suit more than once, you've already lost money. There has to be an incentive to use it.....cause quite frankly, people see "PRO" and they think he's OP now. But it just offers an extra high and low slot and they die just the same.
There's a difference when you graduate from militia to Type II or Type II to Bseries. But Bseries to Proto is little difference because you can pretty much tango in any situation in a Bseries suit with 3 highs and 2 lows.
I don't know.....what do you guys think? I think the higher the suit is, the more base armor & shields it should have. So, the proto should have more than the Bseries and the Bseries should have more than the Type II HELL NO!!!!!! In Replication when a Heavy had 1500 HP in just armour PLUS whatever plates were stacked on the reaction when turning a corner and seeing a protoheavy was this: RUN!!! if you want to live!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxgLwrW9h_A
i miss those days you had to play the role you chose lol
i think they should in moderation 50 to 100 points per level of suit at the very least |
Mikel Dracionas
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 10:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Wait, in older builds the suits had more health? I didn't know that....ok, so they tried it and it didn't work. Hmm, ok then....forget it As stated in my post - they had more HP and were a LOT less expensive. Now the prices don't match up with the quality of the product.
very much agreed to much skill points and isk not enough product |
Mikel Dracionas
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 10:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Just for perspective's sake, in Replication I could take out multiple Heavy's with the HMG of old, in a Prototype Assault Suit with a decent AR. Badassery on a whole new level.
before or after the hmg nerf |
Mikel Dracionas
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
14
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Posted - 2012.12.16 10:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:They changed it this way because the difference in gear was wayyy too much back in older builds. I think the suits are fine the way they are now personally, the extra slots and CPU/PG are very nice :o this. the huge advantage gear gave u back in older builds was alot worse than it is now ppl complain how guys run around in proto suits this build imagine if they played back in the old builds like i did lol extra CPU/PG and fitting slots give enough of an advantage already with being able to fit alot more higher tier gear than lower tier suits so absolutely no need to add more base health on higher tier suits.....too much of a crutch PS: Proto heavy vk.1 suit........CCP........fix the price.......quarter mill for the suit alone? gtfo
the biggest complainers in this whole thing are the lone wolfs a lone wolf shouldnt be able to take out a proto at full health and sheilds unless at that lvl themselves the team players in militia gave me grief when i ran proto in the old builds.
not as much as they could have but they did at times |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 11:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Based on my calculations it's actually like... 6x the price... |
Dust Goon
Doomheim
22
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Posted - 2012.12.16 12:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Why not suits with increased Hp, and less modules? For example a VK2 suit with 225 base shield, 175 base armour, but only 3 high and 3 low slots, and only a single equipment slot. Slower movement too. CCP can play around with new suit variants for the next 7 years, so I think tbh were all pretty happy as things are.
IMHO the problem comes when damage mods receive a stacking bonus. I dont think I like the reduction in overall hp, combined with no decrease in the overall weapon damage, except a 5% reduction in weaponry (SMG too but meh).
Answer? More suits, and add racial modifiers to each suit archetype. Without muffing balance totally.
I wouldb't be surprised to see this at all.
We already know theres a lot of new suits to come in a future build, we was meant to get them in codex along with the plasma cannon and crusader suits but they got pulled at the last min.
Not to mention webbing mines. |
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