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not enough isk/sp after the round

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Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.15 14:33:00 - [1] - Quote i have been in this beta a little over a month, and dont see the benefits from using anything other than the starter drop suits. the isk spent per drop suit compared to what you get in return is a joke, you go thru 4 drop suits @50k isk a piece but only get about 110k-125k for the battle and that dont include ships/ tanks used and or lost. also the sp cost to upgrade things compared to whats earned is CRAZY! i want to keep playing but when i shield tank to survive, still die after 3 hits, and get 0 reward for my time spent playing its hard to stay into. there is just not enough reward for the isk spent per round and it makes the gameplay not so fun anymore.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.12.15 15:28:00 - [2] - Quote Play with what you can afford.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.15 15:31:00 - [3] - Quote EVE online rule number 1: Don't fly something you can't afford to lose. Dust 514 rule number 1: EVE Online rules almost always apply to Dust
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.15 15:51:00 - [4] - Quote well that was kinda the point of the post, if you dont use the starter set up you cant afford anything. i want to live longer than 2 shots at me and how do you do that? better drop suits and mods. but if you dont get enough in return how can you enjoy the game? my point is the game does not pay out enough and using this weak, high cost low yield system wont bring players, it will chase them away. ill drop 1mil isk on drop suits and mods and will only make 1/2 of that back. its these game mechanics that are a BIG contributer to people leaving and/or not wantig to play
MItt R0mney Doomheim 58	Posted - 2012.12.15 15:53:00 - [5] - Quote CCP seriously needs to create a tutorial or video of some sort that emphasizes the fact that you are not supposed to be able to fight in your strongest/shiniest suit 100% of the time, just because you were able to unlock it. Not unless you are really good at staying alive. Or even market the game as such so that these rules of New Eden become common knowledge to anyone interested in this game.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:08:00 - [6] - Quote Seriously, guys, even CCP's economist has said he expects everyone to be able to support standard level gear at any level of player skill. This isn't possible right now. The rewards really are awful.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:10:00 - [7] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Seriously, guys, even CCP's economist has said he expects everyone to be able to support standard level gear at any level of player skill. This isn't possible right now. The rewards really are awful. Surprise surprise, I am able to do so and turn out a high profit. Your point?
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:11:00 - [8] - Quote then they need a SERIOUS buff on damage taken. a game that you waste resources, not gain them, and you cant use the things you unlock because they cost too much to use more than 1 of per round. i have had over a dozen friends say they would never play this game for these reasons and im doubting the length of time ill still be playing. who wants to play a game when they cant use the things they unlock, train and purchase because the game dont pay out enough to use the good things?? or when your gettin spawnkilled 4x in a row so you never get to use those 4 dropsuits and still lose all that money???? the game needs to pay out enough to at least maintain what you lost. IN EVE atleast you got isk from ship bounties and loot. and you could sell the things you didnt want or need.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:12:00 - [9] - Quote ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Seriously, guys, even CCP's economist has said he expects everyone to be able to support standard level gear at any level of player skill. This isn't possible right now. The rewards really are awful. Surprise surprise, I am able to do so and turn out a high profit. Your point? Are you one of the guys who consistently goes 0/8 or 2/7? Just because you can do something doesn't mean everyone can. FYI, I make considerable profit running 60k suits, so I'm not arguing for myself. Being able to sell our salvage would offset a lot of this, but for the time being, since we can't, the rewards are pretty bad for the low-end players.
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:15:00 - [10] - Quote ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Seriously, guys, even CCP's economist has said he expects everyone to be able to support standard level gear at any level of player skill. This isn't possible right now. The rewards really are awful. Surprise surprise, I am able to do so and turn out a high profit. Your point? well you must be 1 of the few because this is a common problem amongst the people i have talked to about it thats y i posted

Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:28:00 - [11] - Quote I think the pacing is but skillbooks can cost a lot. I had to play in nothing but starter kits for a couple of weeks until I acquired the basics. Perhaps for the sake of it being a beta and because everybody will reset on the release, we could have the books cheaper? Then players can concentrate on buying and customising their dropsuits, saving up for tanks, etc. The fun stuff!
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:40:00 - [12] - Quote Should probably increase it.. Just aslong as you can't run Adv+ Fits constantly and make a profit, I'll be happy.
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:50:00 - [13] - Quote im not even asking for enough to make a profit, i just ask to make enough to re-up with my suits and mods. this is a beta and if you want more players these are changes that are needed to increase to likeability of the game and bring in more players. that is the ultimate goal right? more players?
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.15 17:28:00 - [14] - Quote Panda Rapeist wrote: ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Seriously, guys, even CCP's economist has said he expects everyone to be able to support standard level gear at any level of player skill. This isn't possible right now. The rewards really are awful. Surprise surprise, I am able to do so and turn out a high profit. Your point? well you must be 1 of the few because this is a common problem amongst the people i have talked to about it thats y i posted I'm a decent player, not that great. I just make sure not to rush mindlessly into an enemy camp expecting to win. I scout the area from afar, wait for my team mates to make a push and then use the knowledge I gathered to take down the area. A few tips: 1.Don't go rushing in expecting to insta win 2.Wait for your team mates, you are not powerful enough to take down a whole team defending an area 3.Make sure to scout around the area. (Go to a high place and zoom in with an Assault rifle or something like that) 4.Don't go head to head with heavies, seriously Iv'e seen so many people do that and die horribly -What you're supposed to do in this situation is to use your speed to your advantage, tear down his armor with bug bites, his shields regenrates much slower than assault and scout shields. 5.Don't run in the open without having some nearby cover, you're just asking for a sniper to pop you 6.If you're in the unlucky situation of having to deal with an area without scouting it, only reveal a part of yourself behind cover and look for enemies. 7.If you see a tank and you're alone, run, don't be a hero 8.Don't be afraid to deal with players with Prototype or Advanced gear, aim for the head and you should be dandy. 9.Try to talk in your mic to see if anyone else has one, if you're lucky and they do start working together. 10.If you see someone and he doesn't see you, take your time and aim for the head 11.Don't be afraid to mele, it saved me countless of times 12.Don't run into players with shotguns, if you see one, don't move backwards, turn around and run 13.Don't run straight to a sniper position, that's just asking to be killed, instead go from cover to cover 14.Hope you have good team mates ^ That's really the basic stuff. You should always use the area to your advantage. Also, don't forget old and proven tactics, they are your best friends. (Attack from above, flank, use darkness for cover, etc') Tiel Syysch wrote: Are you one of the guys who consistently goes 0/8 or 2/7? Just because you can do something doesn't mean everyone can. FYI, I make considerable profit running 60k suits, so I'm not arguing for myself. Being able to sell our salvage would offset a lot of this, but for the time being, since we can't, the rewards are pretty bad for the low-end players. Standard gear doesn't cost too much per suit. I had my share of being pwned to dust (pun intended) when I was playing in the middle of the night when I usualy play badly, and I still turn a profit because standard gear doesn't cost too much. When you get better, use better gear - and not the opposite. A bad player with Prototype gear is still bad.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2012.12.15 19:30:00 - [15] - Quote ISK payouts have changed throughout the beta - and every build. They will change again.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.12.15 19:45:00 - [16] - Quote SP can stay how it is, though i'm not very keen on the cap as it is now. I wonder about ISK payments in the final release though. If it's coming out of nowhere from a NPC source like it is now, players are going to join forces and farm warpoints by taking turns hacking a installation or something.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.15 20:18:00 - [17] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: SP can stay how it is, though i'm not very keen on the cap as it is now. I wonder about ISK payments in the final release though. If it's coming out of nowhere from a NPC source like it is now, players are going to join forces and farm warpoints by taking turns hacking a installation or something. NPC contracts in high sec, player contracts in low/null sec.
Jeiger Tilraun BetaMax. 6	Posted - 2012.12.15 20:37:00 - [18] - Quote its not all about the SP/isk investment in modules and suits. sometimes yes, but for a long time I played in the silkweave militia suit with silkweave gear, to include the militia AR. I still went about 10/5 each round. I've upgraded some things and now I got about 13/3 skill, tactics, and working together is better than modules and the amount of isk you throw down for a suit. I think it is fine the way it is. As the one guy said before: play with what you can afford. Dont spend all your money on a Raven if you cant replace it, and especially if you dont have the proper support skills. Before I upgraded, I had both my shield boost and armor boost (shield management and mechanic) to level 4 before I started spending the money on good suits. So far its paid off.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.12.15 20:53:00 - [19] - Quote ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: Edu Ashbourne wrote: SP can stay how it is, though i'm not very keen on the cap as it is now. I wonder about ISK payments in the final release though. If it's coming out of nowhere from a NPC source like it is now, players are going to join forces and farm warpoints by taking turns hacking a installation or something. NPC contracts in high sec, player contracts in low/null sec. Well there would lie a problem. Corp A and Corp B are allies but they fight eachother on a NPC contract and grind warpoints.
TechTwoTiger ZionTCD Legacy Rising 3	Posted - 2012.12.15 23:41:00 - [20] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: Well there would lie a problem. Corp A and Corp B are allies but they fight eachother on a NPC contract and grind warpoints. CCP isn't stupid, this won't be a problem.

NovaShadowStorm The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2012.12.16 07:33:00 - [21] - Quote Panda Rapeist wrote: i have been in this beta a little over a month, and dont see the benefits from using anything other than the starter drop suits. the isk spent per drop suit compared to what you get in return is a joke, you go thru 4 drop suits @50k isk a piece but only get about 110k-125k for the battle and that dont include ships/ tanks used and or lost. also the sp cost to upgrade things compared to whats earned is CRAZY! i want to keep playing but when i shield tank to survive, still die after 3 hits, and get 0 reward for my time spent playing its hard to stay into. there is just not enough reward for the isk spent per round and it makes the gameplay not so fun anymore. I'll have to echo the rest, don't use what you can't afford, at the start, start small, focus on making yourself harder to kill or hit harder, this will mean running around in frontline gear for a little and yes you will die alot but if you can make a few kills by playing smart you can start turning a profit and start buying better things, Malitia gear is essentially standard gear it just eats more Grid and CPU so you should be on even ground with standards apart from skill wise. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. Simple as that, don't use that tank just because you can get in it, more likely than not it will be 2-3 hit. Same with anything really train more than you have to, then use it.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 432	Posted - 2012.12.16 07:37:00 - [22] - Quote My SP turnout per match is down to like around~7,000 but make at least 130,000+ISK up to mid 200,000 sometimes and this is true even if I'm in the top 3. Firstly, is that normal, and secondly does breaking certain WP landmarks have anything to do with this, because if not SP definitely needs a boost, but ISK is alright where it's at.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.12.16 08:47:00 - [23] - Quote Advanced/proto gear are the rare occasion unless you're really good or you've been saving the isk/gear for special moments. I absolutely suck at these games, so i've planned my dropsuit budget around that notion. All bpo's except for a standard swarm launcher. So that ends up around 5k isk per death. Even if i do horrible and only get 100k isk for the match, that means I could die 20 times before I start loosing money. So i'll eventually end up saving a rather large amount of isk for advanced/proto gear, which i then only use when i see a tank. Know how much your gear costs and how much you normally get per match (low ball it so you can save isk). If you start to get close to that number from deaths, then switch to an all bpo or starter fit for the rest of the game. Only use the high end gear for something special. But I guess if you're really good, then you could do all this with the good gear, But I know i suck, so i don't. This is the way things are meant to be.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.16 09:32:00 - [24] - Quote I only run militia or T1 suits/gear/mods/equipment. Weapons are a different story. I have higher tier mods and equipment but I rarely use them anymore because I was hemorraging ISK. It was a hard lession to learn because I'm stubborn. And I, like Pent'noir stated, suck at this game. My suggestion is this: figure out what your best role is and buy the BPO's for that. Run that for awhile and build up your bank account. I understand this is supposed to be free to play (which it is) and not a pay to win game (which it isn't). But having BPO's helps A LOT. When you run almost free every match it's really hard to run out of ISK... I said hard, not impossible...
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.16 13:49:00 - [25] - Quote then whats the point of playing a game and unlocking things to just not use them???? that is stupid!! the amount of sp recieved is ok, the cost of upper skills is out of reach, most players will quit this system(since you cant effectivly use your good stuff) b4 t4 of most things. my shields are maxed, assault @t4 sniper@t4 but i play a shooter to run in and kill things not to hide the whole game just to save suits!!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.16 14:01:00 - [26] - Quote Pro-tip: Copy the Starter Fits (or use one as a base when selecting "create new") then add your more valuable gear to the basic fitting. That lets you bypass the cost of fitting a whole suit just to get a couple of new items onto the field. A player using Starter Fits this way can create a 10k fitting that performs almost as well as the 50k ISK you're spending per death. If you have AUR, you can pick up some of the Militia blueprint modules/weapons and use them in conjunction with the Starter Fits. That lets you have a larger variety of totally free fittings, and ALSO gives you the freedom to add some cost-saving upgrades to a fitting built around an expensive weapon or piece of equipment. You don't have to use ALL the fancy parts on EVERY fitting you own. You can fit for a specific role, then add cheap versions of the gear that's secondary to the core focus of your fitting.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.16 15:18:00 - [27] - Quote Panda Rapeist wrote: then whats the point of playing a game and unlocking things to just not use them???? that is stupid!! the amount of sp recieved is ok, the cost of upper skills is out of reach, most players will quit this system(since you cant effectivly use your good stuff) b4 t4 of most things. my shields are maxed, assault @t4 sniper@t4 but i play a shooter to run in and kill things not to hide the whole game just to save suits!! Descretion is the better part of valor. Pick your battles. If you run your best gear all the time, which is dumb, but don't have the skill to stay alive, there is no one hit kill/uber defense set up vs. everything, and you burn through all your best gear, which it sounds like your doing, than you are doing it wrong. This is a game about choices and consequences. Your complaining that the pay out for ISK is too low to run the best stuff your qualified to run all the time, really? If your not going to take the advice of the numerous people who have posted in the thread you started than here is the best advice I can give you: HTFU, adapt, get good, and don't use what you can't afford to lose. The upper tier isn't out of reach. Save your sp and specialize in something. Max it out and move on to some other skill that complements your play style and match a fitting to it, don't force a fitting into a role and/or situation it or you can't handle. That may require running and/or hiding. Wash, rinse and repeat. If you want to run in and kill things then you spent a bunch of SP on sniper rifles for nothing... I break out my best gear in critical situation or if I think I got a shot at one of the top players. That's it. And don't forget, a good player wearing all militia gear can take out a bad player wearing all proto. And teams generally trump the lone wolf. Find some squad mates. Take the advice these people have given you and try it out. It does work. It took me awhile to figure that out. This isn't Mundane Warfare or Checkers of Duty. You die in the chess game here there is consequenses other than your kdr... or will be after release... Btw - I've seen you in game a few times. You're not bad from what I remember. Take the advice in your thread and you'll get better returns on your sp/isk investments faster. And have some patience.
Panda Rapeist Flying While Intoxicated Apocalypse Now. 1	Posted - 2012.12.17 00:25:00 - [28] - Quote im gonna take everyones advise, and appreciate all of it. i brought this up because there have been times i go 8/2 and only get 50-70k isk, and to spend 3 weeks to gain the SP to unlock something you cant/ dont want to use all the time then why put in the work? being in beta is why im trying to push all my equipment and bringing up what i think ALOT of casual players will be turned away by. i like the game so far, this is the ONLY issue i really dont like. again i do thank everyone for the advice and will see you all on the battle field!
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.12.17 01:54:00 - [29] - Quote There are certain mods that punch well above their ISK cost, complex shield extenders for one. I think what happens at the start, you get better mods and weapons, but to use them you either have to use PG/CPU mods to fit them or you tend to go to the next advanced suit to fit them all on. But, what newer players are overlooking, once you get better fitting skills and electronics and engineering are just the start, then you can downgrade the suit saving cost, but achieving a similar effectiveness. This shifting up/down happens not just as your getting past militia, but for standard and advanced suits too. While you can fit primary and secondary weapons, grenades and equipment slots, you can achieve a similar hi/low module effectiveness and drop some of the other slots for a cheaper fitting. Sure you haven't got the same utility, but you save quite a bit.
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 90	Posted - 2012.12.17 03:19:00 - [30] - Quote Going to also add, don't forget about the SP cap. Once you start having some good matches for you, don't compare yourself to other players much, you will start to find that your SP gains start to drop. Thats where the booster come in. The active, so I've been told, also raises, or is suppose to raise, the weekly cap. Whether it does or not, it does help with gaining SP. The passive booster bumps your down time SP earning from 1 SP every 4 seconds to 1 SP every 3 seconds. Doesn't seem like much but over the course of a week or two it adds up quick. But both of them cost real money so, play what you can afford. You don't really need them tbh, but they do help in reaching those higher tier skills faster. Good hunting.



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