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BPO's and the future of Dust. (long read)

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DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:12:00 - [1] - Quote One of my biggest pet peeves in this game, and in real life, is wasting money on something that doesn't last. Because I feel if I purchase an item, it should last long enough for me to get my money's worth, plus some. The big problem with Dust, is that even the most expensive suit loadout can be lost in an instant, there is no guarantees. Whether it be from legitimate PvP, by means of lag, frame-rate problems, disconnections, being unlucky, or by spawning right in front of an enemy... there is so many ways to lose a suit without getting much, or any, use out of it. I often find this to be the case when I use my decent suits. I have this nice suit that I pay a premium for, only to lose it way too quickly and be out all that ISK with little or nothing to show for it. This irritates me to no end, and I find I use my cheapest garbage suits most of the time to avoid wasting all that ISK. Not only does this give me a disadvantage on the battlefield, but it also makes skilling up for better suits and equipment a moot point, because if I don't get my money's worth on a 65k suit and never want to use it, then why would I want to buy a more expensive suit and load it with more expensive modules, weapons and equipment? Due to the low payout of ISK, even my 65k suit would give me a loss of ISK if I lost 2 or 3 of them in a single match. So why would I ever want to buy and use a 100k, 200k, 700k+ suit? Granted this is a beta, and it has many problems that will eventually get fixed. But even with a near glitch-free and lag-free game, even the best suit can be lost instantly for very stupid or unforeseen reasons. I am playing a game to have fun, but I do not have fun losing something so easily that costs so much, even if it is in-game money that costs nothing. -- With that said, here is what I think needs to be done to make this game much more enjoyable. We need BPO's for every weapon, suit, module, and piece of equipment. And I am not talking about AUR BPO's, but ISK based ones too. Now I know there is going to be many people that believe that this is a game of consequences and should remain that way, and having BPO's for everything would negate that. But hear me out, what if the ISK for these BPO's was extremely high? Say for example the BPO for the GEK-38 could be 10 million ISK. That is a pretty hefty chunk of Dust currency for a single weapon right? So you may ask, why would I pay 10 million for one weapon but get so butt-hurt about losing a 65k suit every so often in matches? Simple, it gives me something to work towards that lets me use that weapon indefinitely without cost, which means I could lose the weapon for some stupid reason in the game, but not have to worry about losing ISK. That to me would be well worth the initial high payout. Plus the idea of consequences is still true, as if you are going to plop down millions of ISK for a single weapon, you better be darn sure you are going to use it a lot! As in my example, 10 million for the GEK-38 would be equivalent of about 600 deaths using that weapon, as the GEK is a little more than 17k right now. But even given that statistic, I still believe it would be worth it, as instead of playing the game always worrying and getting irritated about losing ISK if I use my good suit and die, I can work towards buying an entire BPO fitted suit, so that one day I can use it as much as I want and only worry about my KDR. To me the idea of working towards something so beneficial will make the game exponentially more enjoyable for players, because as it stands now I really don't feel like spending hard-earned SP to upgrade my suit, as that only means more ISK lost when I use it and lose it.... I am basically upgrading stuff just to be more aggravated when I lose it. That to me is not what a FPSMMORPG/whatever game should be about, I play games to escape stress and to enjoy myself, not to get extremely irritated when I permanently lose something I worked so hard on to build and pay for. *-- CONTINUED ON NEXT POST --*
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:12:00 - [2] - Quote *CONTINUED...* -- So Ok, lets say you've read this far and are thinking; "Hey, what about when EVE comes into play and is able to give billions of ISK to Dust players?" Well, unless they do something to the Dust currency to match it with EVE, one alternative I can think up is that the BPO items can only be purchased with ISK earned directly from playing in Dust. Therefore no amount of EVE money or donations will enable players to buy BPO's, only ISK they have earned themselves will be capable of buying them. But leukoplast, what about BPO vehicles? Honestly I do not think vehicles should have BPO's in the same manner as the suits (as I described above), because they can already survive an entire round without worrying about being insta-killed by something really stupid like suited players can. Suits of any caliber, except perhaps heavies, are extremely vulnerable. Vehicles on the other hand get exponentially stronger and more versatile as they upgrade, and have a much higher chance of survivability due to unforeseen events. A militia suited player can still take down a proto suited player, but I seriously doubt a starter tank with barely any shields and armor could even begin to touch a proto tank. -- In conclusion, I truly believe BPO's are going to be the key to making Dust more popular, mainstreamed, and fun. As I can't see myself enjoying this game for too long if upgrading my suits and weapons, means I lose more and more ISK each time I die. Upgrading should be fun and something to look forward to, but I find it difficult to look forward to upgrading because it simply means I end up wasting more ISK every time I die (especially if the reason for dying is extremely lame). Having BPO's for every weapon, suit, module and equipment at a premium ISK payout, provides long-term goals that are extremely beneficial, sought after and what most FPS players are used to.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:24:00 - [3] - Quote Altessan Vigarde wrote: Or you could, you know, just play COD. Come on, I spent a lot of time writing this out and putting decent thought into it, you could at least read it before poo-pooing the idea.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:36:00 - [4] - Quote 1CLIP 1KILL wrote: It's my understanding that if you're good, EVE corps will buy you **** to use. They've got billions, so you can get (almost) negative KDR using all proto suits and still not go broke if you get paid. See that's the thing, I have over 20 million ISK right now, cost is not am issue at the moment for me. It's the fact that I am just throwing away ISK (and AUR) every time I die and rarely have much to show for it... especially if I die for really stupid reasons (which seems to be the case about 90% of the time). As somebody who is fairly budget conscious in real life, I find it extremely aggravating to waste money, even if it's just in-game money. Worse if that currency is AUR! The idea of working towards something that may cost a lot up front, but in the end lets you use it forever, would be amazing for this game. I like working towards gaining SP and ISK, but if upgrading means I lose more when I die, then where is the motivation?
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:47:00 - [5] - Quote Belzeebub Santana wrote: Read it and no. This is not the way to go, losing isk every death teaches you many things and is one of the original things this game has going for it. This is true, but only if the reason for dying was a legitimate one, meaning something I earned by my own mistake or by poor tactics. Spawning in front of an enemy and getting insta-killed is not much of a learning experience. In fact, it seems most all of my deaths when using good gear are due to ridiculous reasons that have nothing to do with my skill or ability, but rather pure luck.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 03:55:00 - [6] - Quote DTOracle wrote: You do understand that CCP needs to make money off this right? I agree ISK pay outs should be higher. But otherwise the system is fine the way it is. What u suggest would dissuade people from spending real money, & dust will go no where like that. AUR BPO's would still be there for those who don't want to take the time to earn/pay that much ISK to buy weapons and gear. Just as AUR items are now, it will still be a "shortcut". In fact, I bet they would make a LOT more money of there was AUR BPO's for everything I spoke of. I mean heck, the Raven suit now is what, 12,500 AUR? That is $6.25 if 40k AUR is $20. CCP would clean up, they are probably already making decent money from all the people buying AUR in the beta, I know several people who have already spent hundreds on AURUM purchases. Could you imagine the insane influx of AUR purchases if BPO's for every suit, weapon, equipment and module were available for AURUM purchase? There would still be other AURUM things to be purchased that aren't permanent, like vehicle stuff, boosters, UVT etc etc.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 04:19:00 - [7] - Quote Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Man this is like Care Bears asking for infinite ships! Dumbest idea ever. If you spent this much time writing this, you should of at least spent more than double the time researching or just playing EVE. BPO's will be the rarest and most expensive items for dust.(the higher tier gear) Only the most powerful and richest corps will have a strangle hold on almost all of them. A few might get lucky and keep them. Only the militia and special event items will be easy to obtain. Dust and EVE are two completely different games with completely different gameplay, you can't expect them to operate in an identical fashion. Dust is primary a FPS that has elements of RPG (leveling up), it is really nothing like how EVE is played (market and upgrading style aside). Now if Dust was an open world game consisting entirely of vehicle play where battles are not constantly occurring in regulated matches with map boundaries and rules, then I might agree... but it's not. It's a FPS game in a restricted non open-world style that is time-based or objective-oriented. A game where even the best suited player dies repeatedly. I don't know much about EVE, but let me ask you... does EVE have matchmaking where it puts 8 dreadnoughts against 8 dreadnoughts and respawns them when they blow up? Does it do this 24/7 and is it the only way to play EVE?
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 06:56:00 - [8] - Quote Omnipotens Zitro wrote: I fully understand the Dust and EVE are and will be two totally different games. You are stating that everybody should be able to buy BPO's of everything that they are skilled into. Should be able to buy and actually being able to buy, are two different things. The 10 million for the GEK-38 in my OP, was just some random number to show as an example, it could very well be 20 million, 30 million... 50 million. I also stated in the OP that perhaps money coming from EVE would not be allowed to be used in purchase of these BPO's, only ISK earned directly from the player in the game. The extremely high ISK price and inability for a quick buy from a billion+ EVE donation, would indeed make this nothing like COD, and could take a very long time to accumulate that amount of cash (depending on how much it would cost of course.) Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Totally kills the idea and purpose of the EVE/DUST universe. You are asking for a COD or any other generic FPS game, where you level up and can use that weapon you unlocked all the time with out consequence. The consequence is the very high ISK price and inability to get it from anything other than playing the game and completing matches, which makes it something the player would really have to think about before unloading their life-savings on a single weapon, piece of equipment, module, or suit. Also just because somebody might eventually have a fully BPO proto suit, doesn't mean they won't want to try another class and start from scratch again. I know personally I would like to do something other than assault, and if i ever get to the point of maxing out all my skills for that role, I will likely then move onto something else. This idea certainly wouldn't kill the EVE/Dust universe, more than likely it would be the opposite, as people will have even more motivation to play and work their way up in terms of SP, ISK and upgrades. Just as I said in the OP, I am at the point now where I don't really want to upgrade, as it just means paying and wasting more ISK each time I die, no matter if my death was my fault or not. How people find this fun is beyond me, I find it irritating and stressful. Omnipotens Zitro wrote: Seriously this is stuff that a kid comes up with. That's why COD and other FPS is so dumbed down and terrible. I suppose I just don't know what it is like to play games nowadays, I thought it was to escape and have fun, to get away from real life for a few moments and enjoy a fake artificial world that does things one cannot do in real life. I don't need to make-believe myself losing money in a fake world and stressing over it, I have plenty of that in my real life. That might have been something I would have desired when I was 8, but now I know what it's like and I don't strive to replay it in a video game. Playing daddy-doing-his-taxes, isn't exactly something grown gamers should be seeking out.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 07:39:00 - [9] - Quote Reimus Klinsman wrote: You are completely wrong. Dust have two things going for it which no other FPS competes with. 1. Persistant universe. 2. Risk vs Reward. For the past two decades FPS have NEVER had risk vs reward on this scale. If non militia BPOs continue to enter into Dust, the game WILL die. Remember, the lifespan of an FPS is very short. Dust has the potential to have a decade lifespan or more like Eve does. Ok, but what is the reward? SP for upgrading skills, giving minuet upgrades to various things. And ISK for buying gear, and re-buying gear lost in those matches. The thing is, even a proto suit, gear and maxed out skills, is no guarantee of anything. I could spawn in with that suit and die a second later due to something completely out of my control regardless of whatever tactics and skill I use. If I am to buy such a grossly expensive suit, it should at least be practically invulnerable, but it's not (for good reasons that I agree with). So therein lays the problem, proto suits/gear and upgraded skills do give an advantage, but is it worth it? Is the risk worth the reward? And if not, why would anybody want to waste that much time and effort to achieve them just to lose it in a blink of an eye? If such a top-tier suit and gear costs so much, then why is it so fragile? I mean generally in real life when you buy something that is 10x more expensive, you are getting something that is hopefully 10x better. So how come not in Dust? Answer to that, is balance. For which I agree with. But this balance throws a kink in the chain of reward, because of how the system is setup now, that reward is more akin to a slap in the face in comparison to the massive amount of risk taken. I mean seriously, say you use three 200k suits in a match, and lose them all. The reward for this is getting 250k ISK and a measly amount of SP. Now you are out 350k... so where is the reward? And when would that risk actually payout something that makes it a real reward? It's not as if the suits are much harder to kill than standard suits, so what... all that money just for a few extra slots that likely won't even get used before dying? If I had some kind of guarantee that I could live a lot longer using these suits, then yes they would be worth the risk. But that is not the case. So many times I have been near insta-killed by a militia rifle even if I have some massive amount of shields/armor. Heck, if the payout in ISK was multiplied as much as the difference in cost for the suit, then it would balance out. But it doesn't... so you take the risk of using a 700k suit for what.... at most 400k if you went 40-0 and capped every objective? Now tanks on the other hand, actually do have rewards. As the more you upgrade, they become exponentially more difficult to take out. Same goes for heavies (which I would say that they should not have these BPO's for the same exact reason). I imagine that is what it's like in EVE, as I assume people arent losing these massive and expensive ships at the same rate we lose suits in these 15-25 minuet matches. They pay a lot, and have a lot to risk.. but in the end are much more capable and harder to take out. So they live longer and get more rewards.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2012.12.14 07:44:00 - [10] - Quote Oede Usaema wrote: First things first dude, if you're getting stressed over not being able to use a proto loadout every spawn, why are you doing it? What's wrong with using cheaper items? Why do you think you MUST USE THE MOST EXPENSIVE STUFF OR NOTHING AT ALLLLLLL? Once you realise that there's absolutely no need for you to pimp yourself out at every turn, you will enjoy the game a lot more and maybe even improve your actual skills rather than relying on over-bloated equipment, because at the moment, it sounds a lot more like you just enjoy rolling pubs without expending any brainpower, which might very well be entertaining for you personally, but where's the upshot for anyone else? Stop being so selfish. If you read the OP, you would have read that I actually use my garbage suit most of the time. And yes, I actually have a lot more fun with it because I know I am losing so little due to several BPO's installed into it.

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