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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2012.12.10 14:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Right now, I think flux grenades have their uses, but are overshadowed by locus grenades. What are flux grenades useful for? Well, they can instantly down the shields of almost all (if not all) infantry, while dealing a hefty amount of damage to vehicle shields. They can also destroy equipment if for some reason you're too lazy to shoot it.
The advantages to using these, in reality, are too limited right now. In most cases, a locus grenade will do more damage to infantry than flux, while trying to throw a flux grenade at a vehicle just ends in the grenade exploding too late. Plus why would you want to waste a grenade on equipment?
A very simple solution to this would be changing flux grenades to impact grenades- or at least a variant. Another would just be to simply shorten the fuse.
In any case, there needs to be a realistic reason to use flux grenades over other grenades. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 15:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
They should be sig radius seeking as in homing to whatever has the largest shield hp |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
They are actually usefull for downing people using the Assult Type 2, B, and VK1 which are superior to the other classes when the sheild is out then they are screwed in fairness as the amour is extremly weak,
A idea to improve it would be if it shut down some of the electronics on suits and on vehicles such as Tac Net at the very least needing a 30 second for example reboot, this could also shut down other things the suit has going sheild recharge for ___ seconds, and the exos which assist movement in these suits which would slow you down or stop you from sprinting the exo also absords recoil of guns so if its shut down guns would be rather difficult to control |
MItt R0mney
Doomheim
58
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Posted - 2012.12.10 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
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Posted - 2012.12.10 18:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
MItt R0mney wrote:This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage.
Good point all of the above would be far over powered a caldari and minmatar killer right there |
RECON BY FIRE
BetaMax.
51
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:MItt R0mney wrote:This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage. Good point all of the above would be far over powered a caldari and minmatar killer right there
Why a Minmatar killer? Minmatar are well known for making everything with rust and duct tape. Barely any electronics in there at all. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
172
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 22:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Getting through enemy shields is tough sometimes, especially when facing a group, so I use them for take out all the shields at once (say, around a heavily controlled area) and then fire a bunch of mass driver rounds to deal massive damage to their armor. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 22:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:A idea to improve it would be if it shut down some of the electronics on suits and on vehicles such as Tac Net at the very least needing a 30 second for example reboot, this could also shut down other things the suit has going sheild recharge for ___ seconds, and the exos which assist movement in these suits which would slow you down or stop you from sprinting the exo also absords recoil of guns so if its shut down guns would be rather difficult to control I like the idea |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 22:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:MItt R0mney wrote:This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage. Good point all of the above would be far over powered a caldari and minmatar killer right there Why a Minmatar killer? Minmatar are well known for making everything with rust and duct tape. Barely any electronics in there at all.
Well both caldari and minmatar encorperate sheild tanking therefore they are more supseptable to EMP than Amarr or Gallentee |
Fluffeh Ingle
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.12.10 23:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a Caldari HAV pilot I would like to say they already do more then enough as is. Nothing should be able to one shot over 4k of shields. |
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
285
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 11:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Right now, I think flux grenades have their uses, but are overshadowed by locus grenades. What are flux grenades useful for? Well, they can instantly down the shields of almost all (if not all) infantry, while dealing a hefty amount of damage to vehicle shields. They can also destroy equipment if for some reason you're too lazy to shoot it.
The advantages to using these, in reality, are too limited right now. In most cases, a locus grenade will do more damage to infantry than flux, while trying to throw a flux grenade at a vehicle just ends in the grenade exploding too late. Plus why would you want to waste a grenade on equipment?
A very simple solution to this would be changing flux grenades to impact grenades- or at least a variant. Another would just be to simply shorten the fuse.
In any case, there needs to be a realistic reason to use flux grenades over other grenades.
They are far more versatile than you give them credit for. They have the highest DPS vs shield tanks, not to mention the heavy use of B-Series assault suits by the hardcore AR players. It's also immensely satisfying to take out an Onikuma with small arms fire before the passangers have time to realise the thing has suddenly lost most of its hp.
In short, they surprise & devastate the otherwise confident shield users. |
Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
104
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 12:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
I haven't used them, but wouldn't they be excellent for clearing objectives of remote explosives? They are supposed to fry enemy equipment after all. |
RECON BY FIRE
BetaMax.
51
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:MItt R0mney wrote:This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage. Good point all of the above would be far over powered a caldari and minmatar killer right there Why a Minmatar killer? Minmatar are well known for making everything with rust and duct tape. Barely any electronics in there at all. Well both caldari and minmatar encorperate sheild tanking therefore they are more supseptable to EMP than Amarr or Gallentee
Fair point. Although if we continue at this rate everyone will shield tank no matter what race/suit. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fluffeh Ingle wrote:As a Caldari HAV pilot I would like to say they already do more then enough as is. Nothing should be able to one shot over 4k of shields.
uh.... 4k inst enough my friend... your gonna need like 11k of shields... barely 11k of armor gets me through a match... |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 19:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm sorry, but Flux Grenades are already good Grenades of choice. I use the basic Flux Grenades and they are the only types of Grenades I'll ever use due to the fact they're amazing.
Impact Grenades are god damn awful, there shouldn't even be a variant for Locus Grenades. You can make fused grenades into "Impact" Grenades if you're a competent grenade user. Instead of just tapping the Grenade button, Hold it and wait, time it right and throw, it'll go off instantly.
Your comment about vehicles? Locus and Flux Grenades are not for killing Vehicles, that is why we use ANTI VEHICLE Grenades. Flux Grenades at a basic level will do 1200 Damage, you carry 3 of them so thats 3600 Damage. Me and Hughes found a Tank Driver (Must've been new) with a Railgun, we had Flux Grenades, Locus Grenades and a Nanohive. We chased that guy down, took his shields out and the majority of his armor before just killing him off with a Duvolle. Took us a few minutes but its proof enough we don't need to buff Flux Grenades considering I took off all his shields in 3 hits.
Flux Grenades have a larger radius than Locus Grenades and aren't affected by distance. That means I will do 1200 Damage in a 6m radius, it doesn't decrease like Locus Grenades do, if you're in that Radius your Infantry players will lose their shields.
Flux Grenades destroy deployed equipment. They can clear out mines, Nanohives and uplinks. Can't see that pesky uplink because it keeps disappearing? Chuck a Flux in the General Area, you'll probably take it out. 3 Remote Explosives guarding that objective and you don't want to shoot them due to damage? Chuck a Flux at it.
Before you decide on buffing them. actually use them well. They are quite balanced and probably my favorite grenades in the game.
Edit: a final mention of how good Flux Grenades are. We were fighting next to the Enemy CRU on the 5 point map (Compound with Green buildings?) when about 8+ players rushed a small group of us going towards it. We ran back behind a wall and I launched a Flux. I got a hit marker and my Squad rushed in, I scored about 200 WP from assists in that fight. They died ridiculously fast (literally, got the hit marker, then everyone rushed and it was over in seconds, no casualties).
Don't tell me there is not a realistic reason to using them :P I might not of gotten the kills at that point, but it was worth using them. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 23:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:I'm sorry, but Flux Grenades are already good Grenades of choice. I use the basic Flux Grenades and they are the only types of Grenades I'll ever use due to the fact they're amazing.
Impact Grenades are god damn awful, there shouldn't even be a variant for Locus Grenades. You can make fused grenades into "Impact" Grenades if you're a competent grenade user. Instead of just tapping the Grenade button, Hold it and wait, time it right and throw, it'll go off instantly.
Your comment about vehicles? Locus and Flux Grenades are not for killing Vehicles, that is why we use ANTI VEHICLE Grenades. Flux Grenades at a basic level will do 1200 Damage, you carry 3 of them so thats 3600 Damage. Me and Hughes found a Tank Driver (Must've been new) with a Railgun, we had Flux Grenades, Locus Grenades and a Nanohive. We chased that guy down, took his shields out and the majority of his armor before just killing him off with a Duvolle. Took us a few minutes but its proof enough we don't need to buff Flux Grenades considering I took off all his shields in 3 hits.
Flux Grenades have a larger radius than Locus Grenades and aren't affected by distance. That means I will do 1200 Damage in a 6m radius, it doesn't decrease like Locus Grenades do, if you're in that Radius your Infantry players will lose their shields.
Flux Grenades destroy deployed equipment. They can clear out mines, Nanohives and uplinks. Can't see that pesky uplink because it keeps disappearing? Chuck a Flux in the General Area, you'll probably take it out. 3 Remote Explosives guarding that objective and you don't want to shoot them due to damage? Chuck a Flux at it.
Before you decide on buffing them. actually use them well. They are quite balanced and probably my favorite grenades in the game.
Edit: a final mention of how good Flux Grenades are. We were fighting next to the Enemy CRU on the 5 point map (Compound with Green buildings?) when about 8+ players rushed a small group of us going towards it. We ran back behind a wall and I launched a Flux. I got a hit marker and my Squad rushed in, I scored about 200 WP from assists in that fight. They died ridiculously fast (literally, got the hit marker, then everyone rushed and it was over in seconds, no casualties).
Don't tell me there is not a realistic reason to using them :P I might not of gotten the kills at that point, but it was worth using them. So, you're saying one of the uses of flux grenades is because of bugs (can't see equipment), and for damaging infantry? Flux grenades can't do more than take out shields, while locus grenades usually kill or take out shields and a good chunk of armor.
As for range, that's a joke. At least for standard flux grenades, the actual blast radius is smaller than the animation makes it seem. |
CaptBuckle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Getting through enemy shields is tough sometimes, especially when facing a group, so I use them for take out all the shields at once (say, around a heavily controlled area) and then fire a bunch of mass driver rounds to deal massive damage to their armor.
This, and to some degree, what Jason Pearson mentioned, as well.
I don't think flux grenades are intended to be a solitary offensive weapon. They are best suited to a combined arms doctrine. That is, they seem best suited to soften up an entrenched enemy immediately prior to a heavy assault. Using them against a single vehicle is probably a waste, but sometimes you just gotta throw whatever you have in your hand...even rocks! :)
I haven't used them a _lot_...but what I have observed so far doesn't seem to need much tweaking. It would be good if the animation matched the actual radius...but oh well.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:I'm sorry, but Flux Grenades are already good Grenades of choice. I use the basic Flux Grenades and they are the only types of Grenades I'll ever use due to the fact they're amazing.
Impact Grenades are god damn awful, there shouldn't even be a variant for Locus Grenades. You can make fused grenades into "Impact" Grenades if you're a competent grenade user. Instead of just tapping the Grenade button, Hold it and wait, time it right and throw, it'll go off instantly.
Your comment about vehicles? Locus and Flux Grenades are not for killing Vehicles, that is why we use ANTI VEHICLE Grenades. Flux Grenades at a basic level will do 1200 Damage, you carry 3 of them so thats 3600 Damage. Me and Hughes found a Tank Driver (Must've been new) with a Railgun, we had Flux Grenades, Locus Grenades and a Nanohive. We chased that guy down, took his shields out and the majority of his armor before just killing him off with a Duvolle. Took us a few minutes but its proof enough we don't need to buff Flux Grenades considering I took off all his shields in 3 hits.
Flux Grenades have a larger radius than Locus Grenades and aren't affected by distance. That means I will do 1200 Damage in a 6m radius, it doesn't decrease like Locus Grenades do, if you're in that Radius your Infantry players will lose their shields.
Flux Grenades destroy deployed equipment. They can clear out mines, Nanohives and uplinks. Can't see that pesky uplink because it keeps disappearing? Chuck a Flux in the General Area, you'll probably take it out. 3 Remote Explosives guarding that objective and you don't want to shoot them due to damage? Chuck a Flux at it.
Before you decide on buffing them. actually use them well. They are quite balanced and probably my favorite grenades in the game.
Edit: a final mention of how good Flux Grenades are. We were fighting next to the Enemy CRU on the 5 point map (Compound with Green buildings?) when about 8+ players rushed a small group of us going towards it. We ran back behind a wall and I launched a Flux. I got a hit marker and my Squad rushed in, I scored about 200 WP from assists in that fight. They died ridiculously fast (literally, got the hit marker, then everyone rushed and it was over in seconds, no casualties).
Don't tell me there is not a realistic reason to using them :P I might not of gotten the kills at that point, but it was worth using them. So, you're saying one of the uses of flux grenades is because of bugs (can't see equipment), and for damaging infantry?
So I'm just giving uses, such as blowing up enemy mines that you cannot see (which is not a bug, they don't have symbols) or you do not have time to waste blowing up.
Quote: Flux grenades can't do more than take out shields, while locus grenades usually kill or take out shields and a good chunk of armor.
Look, they're designed to smash shields, they're not meant to be another Locus Grenade (Blue Variant). Obviously these grenades don't suit you but they suit many of us just fine. I only ever need to take out shields, it does its job.
Quote: As for range, that's a joke. At least for standard flux grenades, the actual blast radius is smaller than the animation makes it seem.
Pretty much does the range it says on the tin mate (though not to sure about the very edge of the radius, might be a little smaller).
You have your preferences about Grenades, and obviously you are much better suited to Locus Grenades. I am a support assault/dropship Pilot for my Squad,these Flux Grenades play a great role in my ability to assist my squad. I mean, you failed to comment on the fact we annihilated a large portion of an enemy team with a single flux grenades major help. Flux grenades aren't mean to be the best at everything, they're situational and they work well in most of my situations.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
You know what else is situational? Nova knives. But that doesn't mean they have a practical use. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You know what else is situational? Nova knives. But that doesn't mean they have a practical use.
I've already told you Flux Grenades are extremely useful but now you're just denying what I've told you and being a nob because you can't use them? Back to typical DUST replies then.
Get Fluxgame, scrub.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Again, tell me why I would use a flux grenade instead of another grenade? |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Again, tell me why I would use a flux grenade instead of another grenade?
cause its an AUR item right? and the ones playing AUR arent playing the game right, so they dont know how to use anything that their not paying for. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Again, tell me why I would use a flux grenade instead of another grenade? cause its an AUR item right? and the ones playing AUR arent playing the game right, so they dont know how to use anything that their not paying for.
Just to let you know, there are three types of grenades
Locus Flux AV
All of these are free grenade types, and I think with a few AUR variants.
Why should you use Flux Grenades? They're good against both Infantry and Tanks who specialize in Shields. You can do almost as much damage against a tank as you could with AV Grenades to their shields. Took out another tank earlier today with Crafty. Chucked Flux Grenades at it to make it retreat, rolled into an AV grenade from Crafty.
They are not killing tools, they're support Grenades.
See, Flux Grenades have a negative which is it cannot kill an enemy, but their positive is a large radius and instant depletion of shields for infantry and major damage to Vehicles. You ever seen those combined with mass drivers? It hurts alot more than Locus Grenades would simply because of how big a Flux radius is and how much damage it can do.
See I can easily take out 400 HP with a Duvolle in a clip, problem is if I run up against a Shield Heavy, I have a problem. Most Shield Heavies are around 400/400 on both, and despite their movement speed, they can just enough of a Locus Grenades radius to not take massive damage. Instead, lobbing a Flux Grenade at them with a larger radius will instantly deplete those 400 shields allowing me to put holes in that lovely suit.
Everybody has a different preference. To someone who uses Flux Grenades in every fit, your ideas seem quite one sided towards Flux Grenades and I feel you don't have enough experience with the weapon to make a good call on what needs to be buffed/nerfed. Practice some more, make the Flux your main grenade and learn how to use them. Do that for a while and then come back.
So tl;dr Flux Grenades are a good balanced grenade, don't just "try" them, use them exclusively for a month or so and get a proper feel for them. |
WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 02:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:MItt R0mney wrote:This might be too much, but I always figured that flux grenades should distort the electrical equipment in your helmet, creating a sort of glitchy-flashbang effect when you are within it's pulse radius.
Or it could be a stand-alone variant that deals little or no damage. Good point all of the above would be far over powered a caldari and minmatar killer right there Why a Minmatar killer? Minmatar are well known for making everything with rust and duct tape. Barely any electronics in there at all.
HEY! I'll have you know we only make our **** with duct tape! The rust is just paint. GTFO! |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 02:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Why should you use Flux Grenades? They're good against both Infantry and Tanks who specialize in Shields. You can do almost as much damage against a tank as you could with AV Grenades to their shields. Took out another tank earlier today with Crafty. Chucked Flux Grenades at it to make it retreat, rolled into an AV grenade from Crafty. Fair point, but the shortened fuse suggestion comes into mind
Jason Pearson wrote:They are not killing tools, they're support Grenades.
See, Flux Grenades have a negative which is it cannot kill an enemy, but their positive is a large radius and instant depletion of shields for infantry and major damage to Vehicles. You ever seen those combined with mass drivers? It hurts alot more than Locus Grenades would simply because of how big a Flux radius is and how much damage it can do. The radius difference isn't enough to make a difference. Also as far as vehicles go, GL hitting any halfway decent drivers with one. Tank drivers with brain cells won't get that close to a squad (as you say, it's a support grenade) while you don't have nearly enough time to hit an LAV with a flux as you do with AV grenades. Not once in all the times I've used LAVs have I gotten hit by a flux, and the only vehicles I've seen take a flux hit are the ones who are just begging to be taken out.
Jason Pearson wrote:See I can easily take out 400 HP with a Duvolle in a clip, problem is if I run up against a Shield Heavy, I have a problem. Most Shield Heavies are around 400/400 on both, and despite their movement speed, they can just enough of a Locus Grenades radius to not take massive damage. Instead, lobbing a Flux Grenade at them with a larger radius will instantly deplete those 400 shields allowing me to put holes in that lovely suit. There hasn't been a heavy that survived a hit from my remote explosives yet.
I used flux grenades exclusively last build with my mass driver scout, and a while ago this build as a logi with a mass driver. I've found that the situations that flux grenades actually help in are too rare for them to be worth using, IMO. |
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