DUST Search - This game is fundementally broken at the core.

Maken Tosch wrote:

Ziot Reitrenner wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

@zoit,

Would you prefer CCP use their in-house engine (carbon) instead which is relatively new, experimental, and requires massive resources? It's the same engine that powers Incarna avatars in Eve.

Anyways, I understand what you mean. But your hate toward the unreal engine is just based on personal preference. CCP had to choose the engine because of time constraints and because the engine is easier to work with for a company that never made a first person shooter in their entire career. Other engines would be nice no doubt, but how easy are they to work with compared to unreal?

IdTech3 would have been the optimal choice, in my opinion. If you want a smooth game, with a consistent feel to it. It's the same game engine used to make the Call of Duty 4 multiplayer engine, which has been used in everysingle Call of Duty game since 4. It can handle vehicles and everything, and while Call of Duty may use a lot of smoke and mirrors to give it that crisp look, it's an ideal multiplayer engine, and would have made a much prettier game than the muddy, ugly, barren thing we have right now.

The texture pop-in on this game is freakin' CRAZY. You simply turn around while exploring the map and the textures will load in front of your very eyes.

Dust 514 is an ugly game. That's saying A LOT considering UE3 is pretty much a Graphics Showcase engine, it's sole purpose besides housing game code is to put a bunch of pretty stuff on the screen. I can appreciate artistic design. But there is no way they intended for all of the terrain in this game to be a mostly featureless grey/brown/yellow expanse. I get it, we're on freshly colonized worlds, but even mars has some texture to it. Without the architecture to break up the drab earths with some metals, this game would be totally devoid of any kind of life. TRIBES had cooler looking maps than this.

That doesn't answer my question. Forget graphics and map layouts. I'm talking about ease of use here.


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Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 06:13:00 - [1] - Quote I just want to drop in and say that this game is easily the biggest disappointment I have ever experienced since the launch of Halo 2 back in 2004. I sincerely believed that this game was going to be the game that pulled console FPS out of the hole that the genre found itself in after the launch of that atrocious pile of digital *****. I KNOW that this game is currently in beta, and I KNOW that it's not finished. But this game can NEVER be fixed, because of one extremely unintelligent decision on behalf of the game developers. The use of Unreal Engine 3 in a game of this magnitude on a CONSOLE is absolutely unacceptable. This game will ALWAYS be a sub-30 FPS, stuttering, rubberbanding, mess. You can't patch out the failure, and that's all the Unreal 3 engine has ever been. A failure when it comes to delivering stable online experiences on the consoles. Every single online game released in this engine has been a freakin' mess. Even the Gears of War games are bug ridden, inconsistent, garbage, and this game is no exception. The saddest part is, is that this pile of crap is going to haunt CCP forever. This can NEVER be undone. You can NOT cancel this game, this late in the development cycle. This game was supposed to make FPS on consoles a legitimate Genre, a TRULY legitimate genre. The DESIGN genius is ABSOLUTELY there. I love everything about this game, but no amount of well wishing will ever improve it. NO FPS SHOULD EVER STUTTER AND FREEZE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAMN GAMEPLAY. If for whatever reason, you manage to make this game run respectably on the PS3, you can consider me impressed. I don't know a single game that uses the unreal 3 engine that can hit above 30FPS on any console. THIS GAME WAS SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE FPS GENRE. I BELIEVED IN YOU CCP! HOW COULD YOU USE SUCH A GARBAGE ENGINE. YES. I AM TOTALLY MAD. And I waited three months to tell you. WHY CCP? I thought you were a competent developer. I am sorry if this post sounds harsh. You honestly can not even begin to understand the depths of my disappointment when I saw that Unreal Logo pop up on the screen after I was finally able to install the game after waiting three months to get into the beta. This game is unfixable. The very essence of the game is FLAWED. This game needs a smoother frame refresh rate than 15-25, while fighting ONE enemy. This is two-thousand and twelve people. The most important thing in the game is how smooth it plays, not how many polygons you can fit on the damn screen. I would say use a much more consistent engine, but the damage is done, and it can never be un-done. This game is ruined.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 06:44:00 - [2] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I was reading this out loud to my brother and we were laughing. So much caps lock, so much exaggeration, so much rage. I especially enjoyed the part about FPS on consoles not being a "legitimate" genre, whatever that means. You ranting on doesn't help the game improve, you said nothing constructive that can actually help. I also enjoy the part about you playing for 3 months, never once coming to the forums to report bugs or provide feedback, and then finally coming here for whatever this is to call the devs incompetent. You show that you have no interest in actually helping the game improve. Console FPS is a joke. This game was supposed to change everything. The entire genre of FPS has been ruined by these slow console shooters. This game was supposed to be different, and not because I had this image in my head of what this game was SUPPOSED to be. The game as it currently stands is well designed, but it's always going to be flawed, and the TRUE issues with the game will NEVER be undone. Unreal Engine 3 is a BAD engine for online FPS. Especially on consoles. This game has atrocious graphics, horrible stuttering framerates, and borderline unacceptable rubber-banding. There are issues with ALL unreal engine games on consoles. This was supposed to be an FPS from one of the best PC developers of ALL time. The only MMO developers that have managed to grow their MMO consistently every single year of its existence. They are using an engine notorious for being subpar for online games with FAR less detail/players/interactions than Dust 514. especially on consoles. To use this garbage engine on a game of THIS SCALE, is absolutely mind boggling. They chose a graphics showcase engine to deliver a mass scale, online FPS. If you don't see the problem with this, and the problems with the game in general. You can't be reasoned with. Period. This game has every right to play as smoothly as Call of Duty, or any retail FPS it has the potential to be FAR superior to all of those games. Especially considering the fantastic addition of keyboard and mouse controls. This game deserves FAR better than Unreal 3. CCP will not be able to fix the issues with this game in time for launch, or ever. That's the nature of the beast. This game will forever be left to the dustbin of failure, because of such a subpar engine choice. If you can prove to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt that this game will run at AT LEAST 30 frames per second when it leaves beta and hits launch, I will shut my damn mouth. I waited 3 months to get into this beta. My god damn heart sank when I saw that damn unreal engine 3 logo. I immediately expected the worst, and my fears were confirmed within 10 seconds of playing this game. This is the biggest gaming related disappointment I've ever experienced. I am not even exaggerating. How could a dev like CCP choose graphics over SMOOTH GAMEPLAY? It doesn't make any god damn sense, man.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 06:54:00 - [3] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is a troll. I am trying to save this game from ending up like MAG.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 06:56:00 - [4] - Quote whoops.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 08:15:00 - [5] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Ziot Reitrenner wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is a troll. I am trying to save this game from ending up like MAG. So you bash the game and give no constructive feedback to make it better = troll logic This is unbelievable. Three times in a row, this forum has eaten my god damn posts. This game deserves better than unreal 3. CCP made a horrible mistake when they picked this engine. That is all I have to say. This game was supposed to be the savior of the FPS genre. It ended up being another victim of UE3's garbage optimization on consoles. You can not even begin to understand the depths of my disappointment with CCP's decision making. You can not even begin to understand how amazing this game could have been if CCP took the time and money to make a decent engine for this ambitious game. If you disagree with me, that's fine. But you know nothing about games if you think this one is in any shape to be even worthy of such an absolute blind defense on your part. CCP BLEW IT. You have no idea how hard they blew it. They took what should have single handedly rejuvenated the competitive FPS scene, and turned it into a minute distraction the Call of Duty 'brogamers' will play while they wait for the next Call of Duty game. This game plays poorly. It's the engine's fault entirely. I am seriously beginning to doubt you've played this game at all. The state it's in is completely unacceptable. And it can't be fixed. Period. This is seriously the most disappointing thing of all time.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 08:29:00 - [6] - Quote My complaints with this game are with netcode, hitboxes, graphical fidelity, and gamefeel. Not gameplay. I personally feel the game itself is perfectly fine in regards to design. It just feels like garbage. The low framerates, rubberbanding, general freezing and stuttering, long loads, and even the horrendous buggy animations are unacceptable for a game this far along in development. The ACTUAL PROBLEM isn't the GAME. It's the ENGINE. How hard is it to grasp this? I've said it 3 times. Unreal 3 is a GARBAGE engine for online games. All I want to know is why CCP decided to ruin their ambitious game with such a mediocre engine. They are perfectly capable of writing a much superior engine for this game. But it's too late. This game will ship, and it will sink. Why play this when Call of Duty plays MUCH smoother, and generally FEELS better. Why would I play a game that can barely maintain 30 frames per second? Why wouldn't I play a game like Call of Duty that maintains a steady, smooth framerate, even online? Don't give me that guff about player count either. Call of Duty LOOKS, PLAYS, and FEELS better than this game in every way, because it's on a SUPERIOR GAME ENGINE. Call me a troll, but what I'm saying is the truth. CCP dropped the ball HARD. There is no way the public will embrace the game in the current state it's in. And it WILL NOT get fixed. The game will NEVER look like those e3 trailers. Ever.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:17:00 - [7] - Quote Nayrson wrote: So...a show of hands from those who see the words BETA splashed across the top when you sign onto DUST. This one remembers seeing that. Its even a closed BETA even, with changes undoubtedly still in the pipeline. JSTR BETA means Not Complete, subject to lots of changes and adjustments based on PROPER feedback. Alas, it would be very trollish of me to say the OP is shedding carebear tears, but I don't want to troll and I am not even sure DUST has carebears to tear as yet (unless the hapless masses getting caught in spawn camps count?) Beta or not. This game is fundementally flawed by the very engine used to power the damn game. Have you ever played another game online using the unreal 3 engine? The piece of crap can barely handle 4v4 Gears of War without spazzing the hell out. CCP expected to operate a massive landwar in this engine? Online? On a god damn 6 year old console? What the hell, man? I am not asking CCP to re-write the entire game. I just hope they NEVER make this mistake again. I never said that the game is finished. I know it's a beta. I am WELL AWARE of that fact. That doesn't change the fact that the CORE problems with the playability of this game WILL manifest throughout its entire existence. This has been the case with every single Unreal 3 game on consoles since the original Gears of War, brah. THIS GAME RUNS AT 25 FRAMES PER SECOND, JUST CHILLING. NOT EVEN IN COMBAT/VEHICLES. Even the god damn menus lag. That's just absolutely unacceptable.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:28:00 - [8] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Exactly why was this game suppose to rejuvenate the Fps genre? Taking a company which has never made an fps and putting them on that high of a pedestal is flawed logic. And exactly how do you know the Ue3 engine isn't just for the beta phase of the game? I'm almost completely sure you've never played this game as if you were qualified to give accurate feedback on this game, it would've been done months ago. You can't just change the engine like that without completely rewriting the code, it would be the equivalent of starting the game completely from scratch. But yes, Vermaak has a point. As much as your points may be valid with the Unreal 3 Engine, dear Ziot, you are giving CCP way too many expectations and demands. Sure, they have created a succesfull PC MMO that keeps growing every year, but expecting them to create an FPS that would completely rewrite the genre is just ridicilous. This game was meant as a new way to link two completely different games together, not to completely blow everyone's mind with new gameplay mechanics that no one has ever seen before and be the benchmark to all FPS, especially from a developer that has never made an FPS before. So for short, your expectations are way overblown, you give CCP unrealistic demands and just generally exaggarate things. I didn't ask anything of CCP. I'm not the one losing anything when this game launches, they are. If you think for one second that these issues will sort themselves out by release, you're crazy. This game is dead on arrival.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:39:00 - [9] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @zoit, Would you prefer CCP use their in-house engine (carbon) instead which is relatively new, experimental, and requires massive resources? It's the same engine that powers Incarna avatars in Eve. Anyways, I understand what you mean. But your hate toward the unreal engine is just based on personal preference. CCP had to choose the engine because of time constraints and because the engine is easier to work with for a company that never made a first person shooter in their entire career. Other engines would be nice no doubt, but how easy are they to work with compared to unreal? IdTech3 would have been the optimal choice, in my opinion. If you want a smooth game, with a consistent feel to it. It's the same game engine used to make the Call of Duty 4 multiplayer engine, which has been used in everysingle Call of Duty game since 4. It can handle vehicles and everything, and while Call of Duty may use a lot of smoke and mirrors to give it that crisp look, it's an ideal multiplayer engine, and would have made a much prettier game than the muddy, ugly, barren thing we have right now. The texture pop-in on this game is freakin' CRAZY. You simply turn around while exploring the map and the textures will load in front of your very eyes. Dust 514 is an ugly game. That's saying A LOT considering UE3 is pretty much a Graphics Showcase engine, it's sole purpose besides housing game code is to put a bunch of pretty stuff on the screen. I can appreciate artistic design. But there is no way they intended for all of the terrain in this game to be a mostly featureless grey/brown/yellow expanse. I get it, we're on freshly colonized worlds, but even mars has some texture to it. Without the architecture to break up the drab earths with some metals, this game would be totally devoid of any kind of life. TRIBES had cooler looking maps than this.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:56:00 - [10] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ziot Reitrenner wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: @zoit, Would you prefer CCP use their in-house engine (carbon) instead which is relatively new, experimental, and requires massive resources? It's the same engine that powers Incarna avatars in Eve. Anyways, I understand what you mean. But your hate toward the unreal engine is just based on personal preference. CCP had to choose the engine because of time constraints and because the engine is easier to work with for a company that never made a first person shooter in their entire career. Other engines would be nice no doubt, but how easy are they to work with compared to unreal? IdTech3 would have been the optimal choice, in my opinion. If you want a smooth game, with a consistent feel to it. It's the same game engine used to make the Call of Duty 4 multiplayer engine, which has been used in everysingle Call of Duty game since 4. It can handle vehicles and everything, and while Call of Duty may use a lot of smoke and mirrors to give it that crisp look, it's an ideal multiplayer engine, and would have made a much prettier game than the muddy, ugly, barren thing we have right now. The texture pop-in on this game is freakin' CRAZY. You simply turn around while exploring the map and the textures will load in front of your very eyes. Dust 514 is an ugly game. That's saying A LOT considering UE3 is pretty much a Graphics Showcase engine, it's sole purpose besides housing game code is to put a bunch of pretty stuff on the screen. I can appreciate artistic design. But there is no way they intended for all of the terrain in this game to be a mostly featureless grey/brown/yellow expanse. I get it, we're on freshly colonized worlds, but even mars has some texture to it. Without the architecture to break up the drab earths with some metals, this game would be totally devoid of any kind of life. TRIBES had cooler looking maps than this. That doesn't answer my question. Forget graphics and map layouts. I'm talking about ease of use here. It's used every two years to pump out a new Call of Duty game.

Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: That still doesn't answer the ease of use question. Someone else please answer the question. Obviously i'm not getting any answers from this guy. It's a much older engine, with a lot more literature and knowledge put into it. Even the GOLDSRC and Source engine has bits of the Idtech2/Quake 3 code in it. It's not about ease of use. It's not like Dust 514 is a fan game. They are making a professional product. I am not here to rustle jimmies. This is a legitimate complaint. I see nothing but doom in this game's future, and I don't know how it can be rectified. I see the interest in this game falling off very quickly. You'd think a game this ambitious would be talked about more often on imageboards like /v/, but it's not. Even in a place where the NDA is pretty much nigh unenforceable people still aren't bringing up this game, whatsoever. It puzzled me until I too got my hands on the game. I was extremely excited for this game, but honestly it's unplayable garbage. This is a forum for feedback on the game. This is my feedback. I really don't know what else you want me to say. CCP dropped the ball big time, and I honestly hope they never make the same mistake twice. Unreal 3 can do some pretty amazing stuff, especially on PC. But this is NOT a PC. This is a 6 year old console. This game is going to FAIL, and I feel CCP deserves to know why.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 14:58:00 - [12] - Quote aden slayer wrote: look pal i don't know what's your problem but on behalf of all players enjoying the game i say this: We would prefer to judge the game in it's final form than it's Beta form. in a game beta you suppose to provide feedback and give ideas to improve it. but instead you would prefer to post your displeasure and rage on the forums like a bull with mad cow disease. I hope you are happy because you just humiliate yourself in front of hundreds of people with logic. That is exactly my point, bro. While CCP can, and most definitely should update the game systems, and the core game play with new features, weapons, maps, there is VERY, VERY, VERY, little they can do about the problems plaguing the GAME ENGINE. It's something SCORES of other developers have been unable to solve. and this failure to recognize the flaws of this engine are why a single little title dominates sales every god damn year, chief. This IS the game's FINAL FORM. It won't get better looking, better playing, or better FEELING. The only thing they can do is change the fundemental gameplay, squash bugs as many bugs as they can, and do balance tweaks. The core problems this game will face in the future have to do with inherent problems in the game engine itself. These are problems that have plagued the Engine since it first debuted in Gears of War back in 2006, and those EXACT same problems have found their way into this game as well. This really isn't a hard thing to understand. These underlying issues have already dealt a deathblow to this game's viability as a competitive shooter. It's inconsistent, there's massive stuttering, to the point where the game WILL FREEZE for a split second while in combat. To quote my friend Kenshiro. This game is ALREADY DEAD. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYyHtOeIV4I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhfyFlDzomE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXVvea5i6ZM I honestly can't name a worse pox on online gaming than this piece of crap engine.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 15:15:00 - [13] - Quote These problems won't go away at launch. If they do I'll gladly eat my just desserts. But the track record so far is clear as day. This game suffers from the exact same problems all games on the unreal engine suffer from when brought online.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.09 15:24:00 - [14] - Quote aden slayer wrote: Ziot Reitrenner wrote: These problems won't go away at launch. If they do I'll gladly eat my just desserts. But the track record so far is clear as day. This game suffers from the exact same problems all games on the unreal engine suffer from when brought online. once again you just assume these problems won't be fixed as if you have the power to see the future. Do you know how hard it is to develop a game? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XVusao6Mic Cool story, bro.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.10 01:08:00 - [15] - Quote CCP deserves to know why their game won't hold a fanbase.
Ziot Reitrenner Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.12.10 08:46:00 - [16] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: Talnos Nosslu wrote: It could help if you named one. Very well. For the utterly slow thinkers with an inability to do their own research. Here you go (In alphabetical order no less) : All Zombies Must Die, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Army of Two, Blade & Soul, Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway, Blacksite: Area 51, Borderlands, Borderlands 2, Bulletstorm, DC Universe Online, Fronlines: Fuel of War, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, Gears of War 3 (Yes, GOW is XBox but..console online was the criteria), Homefront, Lost Planet 3, Mass Effect 3, Medal of Honor, Medal of Honor: Airborne, Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, Painkiller: Hell & Damnation, Section 8, Section 8: Prejudice, Singularity, Spec Ops: The Line, Stranglehold, Tom Clancy's Endwar, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD, Too Human, Tron: Evolution, Turok, Unreal Tournament 3, and X-COM: Enemy Unknown. Satisfied? That's not even counting single-player or non-console. There isn't a single game in that list that is well known for its stable, multiplayer experience, especially on consoles. People call it "host advantage" but it's just the fact that unreal 3 is a garbage engine. Call of Duty has peer to peer multiplayer, but the non-hosts don't suffer any clear and present disadvantage. Pings are very consistent in those games, you might get one game out of about 20 where you're getting what some have called 'Magic Bullets." Where it looks like you're getting shot through entire buildings. Unreal Tournament 3 is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE online and that's where the god damn engine gets its name.