DUST Search - I MAY BE WRONG..BUT.......

Tectonious Falcon wrote:

Overlord Ulath wrote:

With the sharpshooter skill the HMG can reach AR range easily. Have you never met Blondie Rhoads from halfway across the map before? And the spread reduction they get from skilling up makes sure 90% of those 2000 RPM hit with pretty decent reliability.

And do you have any idea how easy it is to tank a heavy fit once you have shield management and mechanics maxed out? That's a 25% bonus to both armor and shields when they are all the way up.

Assault Vk.1 suit has 225 shield and 105 armor hp, add on 25% and it sits at 131.25 armor and 281.25 shields.

Compare that to a heavy Vk.1. Base 270 shields, 320 armor. With skills it's at 337.5 shields and 527.5 armor.

That's right around 400 HP difference BEFORE mods.

So... tell me again how assault suits are better?

So a heavy has to level up sharpshooter skill to reach AR range. What if the AR user levels up sharpshooter? HERESY AR's are the god weapon shouldnt need anything done to them to be better!!!! Face it an assault rifle will always be able to beat a HMG range wise if they put in equal amounts of sp

Have you never met Sensimilla ST from across the entire map before? He is in to light weapon sharpshooter proficieny, so don't try to tell me a HMG can reach as far when I have proof that it can't.

Also yes I do know how easy it is to tank a heavy. I have mechanics maxed out and shield management to level 3. No one uses proto heavies because they are useless, so obviously your not a heavy user or you'd know that. I have friends in my corp using proto assault suits to get 401 shields and 428 armour. That almost as much as a heavy and they could still fit a duvolle tactical.

So in short, a proto assault with 800 hp, a prototype weapon with huge range and plenty of mobility versus a proto heavy with 1k hp, a short range weapon and almost o mobility whatsoever.

That's how an assault suit can be better.


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Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.09 01:42:00 - [1] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: DJINN leukoplast wrote: Once a heavy gets skilled up, they are practically invincible with the range of, or surpassing, most AR's. And the damage ability to drop even the toughest assault suit in a second or less. Basic heavies or ones not too skilled up, are pretty weak, I agree there. But they go from weak to severely OP very quickly. How does someone even think HMG's have more range than an AR? That is the craziest thing I hae heard for a long time. Also the toughest assault suit has about the same amount of health as a heavy, while still being able to fit proto weapons and damage mods. Face it a good assault suit is better than a good heavy suit. Especially with useless proto heavies. With the sharpshooter skill the HMG can reach AR range easily. Have you never met Blondie Rhoads from halfway across the map before? And the spread reduction they get from skilling up makes sure 90% of those 2000 RPM hit with pretty decent reliability. And do you have any idea how easy it is to tank a heavy fit once you have shield management and mechanics maxed out? That's a 25% bonus to both armor and shields when they are all the way up. Assault Vk.1 suit has 225 shield and 105 armor hp, add on 25% and it sits at 131.25 armor and 281.25 shields. Compare that to a heavy Vk.1. Base 270 shields, 320 armor. With skills it's at 337.5 shields and 527.5 armor. That's right around 400 HP difference BEFORE mods. So... tell me again how assault suits are better?
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.09 03:22:00 - [2] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: Overlord Ulath wrote: With the sharpshooter skill the HMG can reach AR range easily. Have you never met Blondie Rhoads from halfway across the map before? And the spread reduction they get from skilling up makes sure 90% of those 2000 RPM hit with pretty decent reliability. And do you have any idea how easy it is to tank a heavy fit once you have shield management and mechanics maxed out? That's a 25% bonus to both armor and shields when they are all the way up. Assault Vk.1 suit has 225 shield and 105 armor hp, add on 25% and it sits at 131.25 armor and 281.25 shields. Compare that to a heavy Vk.1. Base 270 shields, 320 armor. With skills it's at 337.5 shields and 527.5 armor. That's right around 400 HP difference BEFORE mods. So... tell me again how assault suits are better? So a heavy has to level up sharpshooter skill to reach AR range. What if the AR user levels up sharpshooter? HERESY AR's are the god weapon shouldnt need anything done to them to be better!!!! Face it an assault rifle will always be able to beat a HMG range wise if they put in equal amounts of sp Have you never met Sensimilla ST from across the entire map before? He is in to light weapon sharpshooter proficieny, so don't try to tell me a HMG can reach as far when I have proof that it can't. Also yes I do know how easy it is to tank a heavy. I have mechanics maxed out and shield management to level 3. No one uses proto heavies because they are useless, so obviously your not a heavy user or you'd know that. I have friends in my corp using proto assault suits to get 401 shields and 428 armour. That almost as much as a heavy and they could still fit a duvolle tactical. So in short, a proto assault with 800 hp, a prototype weapon with huge range and plenty of mobility versus a proto heavy with 1k hp, a short range weapon and almost o mobility whatsoever. That's how an assault suit can be better. An assault can reach the same level of HP WITH mods as a heavy WITHOUT mods. Big difference there. As for the range, I said they could reach assault rifle range, I never said they could surpass them or that AR's couldn't surpass HMG's at max range. That was someone else, reread my post. I am also fully aware of how far AR's can reach with light weapon sharpshooter, all I pointed out was that HMG's can reach the same range as an AR. An AR with basic skills put into it is an AR all the same, still a mid ranged weapon. Which makes it far more than the short ranged weapon you keep thinking of it as. The fact that HMG's can fire as far as AR's is more than enough to make them more deadly since they then dominate close and mid range with 2000 RPM and over 20 damage per bullet (that's over double the fire rate of an AR with well more than half the damage per bullet of all but the best AR's). FYI, I've run heavies plenty and am fully aware that no one uses proto heavy dropsuits, however since you said "the toughest assault suit has about the same amount of health as a heavy", I thought it was only right to juxtapose the highest level assault with the highest level heavy. I love how you make these assumptions though. As for you saying "AR's are the god weapon shouldnt need anything done to them to be better!!!!", when did I ever say they need to be improved? I have no interest in seeing them improved. If anything I think they need recoil added. My whole point is that HMG's and heavies are fine the way they are as well. A heavy's weapons have an optimal range just like every other weapon. When used in their optimal range, a heavy wins hands down 8/10 times when fighting equal level opponents. Unless they are no good with their chosen weapons of course. This is because they have overwhelming damage output withing the range of their weapon (NO light weapon does more DPM than an HMG) and can stand up to almost any kind of attack (due to their large amounts of HP) long enough to dish out enough damage to overtake the enemy. That's the whole point of a heavy.
Overlord Ulath Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.09 04:25:00 - [3] - Quote Tectonious Falcon wrote: You say you run as a heavy, but your words don't back it. Go back, put on an HMG, and go see how well you do vs an assault who has some range on you. I'm sick of these words. Utah, let's 1v1. You can choose your best assault player vs my HMG. Sit on A objective as me and your assault player duke it out between C and A. Make sure he's proto - I'll bring my best suit worth well over 350k. You can see first hand how out matched HMG users really are vs assault if we can't flank or use team work. And if a heavy needs teamwork to kill an assault - we call that broken. Oh, or better yet, let me put my AR vs your HMG, heavy on heavy. Watch me clean floor with him without ever needing to strafe. Heavies head hit box seems a bit OP IMO. Once again, medium to short range HMG tops AR. OF COURSE beyond the range of an HMG it is useless. You might as well be saying a shotgun beats a Pistol, or a SMG beats a laser rifle. It's all based on the circumstances. You are trying to have a argument with me over something I'm not saying. And you also keep changing your argument. First it was an HMG can't reach AR range, then it was an Assault suit has virtually the same HP (when even by YOUR numbers the heavy was up by around 200), and now it's "well, in this ONE situation where a heavy is farther away than his HMG can optimally reach, THEN the AR wins every time". Well no sht! Knowing the optimal range for your weapon is key in any fight. That has no bearing on the issue here. Why aren't you off comparing nova knives with sniper rifles if this is how you compare weapons? In any case, a heavy isn't meant to be played alone, but it can be. An AR has an easier time of it than a HMG because they are lighter and can go around and keep their distance from tight quarters where heavies can rip them apart more easily and have the range to tag distant targets, but I've seen plenty of HMG players top the list playing solo among decent players. I've also seen a full squad of heavies obliterate the enemy team. But you pose this as a one on one issue. This isn't a game made for solo players, it's a game made for squads who work together. You can play it solo, but doing so puts you at a disadvantage to any team you go against who works together no matter your build. 1 heavy maxed vs 1 assault maxed on open ground, 9/10 times the assault can get distance between them and finish it off. But if that heavy gets close enough, it's over. And once again, that's where teamwork comes in. As for the heavy head hit box, I can agree with that. It's WAY too easy to head shot a heavy with almost any weapon (mass drivers excluded, that sht takes some skill). So, how's this since you want to keep changing the issue around: Are you saying the AR is better than the HMG? Because that all depends on your play style. If you're a CQB-mid ranged player, then that's nonsense, but if you're a long range fighter, then you WOULD see it that way. But quite often to get a shot at a heavy, you have to get into those tight quarters where they can open up on you. Or are you saying the Assault suit is better than the Heavy suit? Because you might want to take that one up with Jack Boost. Seriously though, as with every single suit or weapon, it's situational as to which is better. The assault suit is generally good all around, but other suits specialize in things the assault suit cannot which gives them their own situational advantages. Side note: Currently running assault. Topped my heavy sht this build, made a new character, am working on topping my assault sht. I'm a beta tester, so I'm more concerned with testing everything out and giving feedback than trying to win every epeen contest that crosses my path.