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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
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Posted - 2012.12.09 02:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:Eternal Technique wrote:Corp matches aren't rewarding? Depends on the contracts you accept I suppose. Considering if you met that group in a pub match, every player would get at least 1m+ individually at the end of the game, yes they aren't rewarding. true but the idea of hisec pub matches isnt to be a corp stomping ground infact ccp should encourage corps to get out of hisec right now contracts dont mean much but i expect that to change. CCP needs to make hisec unrewarding for corps so they look to seek greener pastures if by implementing a teamwide grouping mechanic where ppl can fill entire teams and get decent to great rewards u take away any reason for the majority of corps to even go losec and play FW corp battles. Caz mentioned this in 1 of his posts and i agree with him 4 man squads are fine for 16v16 6 man squads are fine for 24v24 8 man squads are fine for 32v32 that way games arent totally dominated by 1 corp just showing up for a free win to farm red dots and the casual players and solo players can still wonder around and play without having to constantly worry or back out of games for fear of just gettin wrecked everytime and not enjoying themselves. Ppl gotta look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture is there are always alot more casuals playing a game than clan oriented players. We already have lowsec and nullsec for corps to stomp around in dont need to take away the only place the majority of the playerbase can have some fun as well
Maybe the idea shouldn't be get corps out of high sec, it should be to get randoms into corps. We are playing a team-based game that doesn't allow organized teams. Remember MAG? Yeah... The whole no clan deploy thing was GRRREEEAAATTT....
Honestly, I get sick of hearing "protect the casuals". Make DUST a hardcore game, and the hardcore fans will support it to its death. And slowly the game sill grow larger. FOTM players aren't gonna be incentivized to play more by iving them boring pub games with a team full of random bluedots. Corps are the main draw of DUST, and thats where the focus should be, not the butthurt feelings of casual #736265227 who is mad he got trumped by teamwork.
Pubstomping is a reality of any large team based game. And honestly, thats fine. The people who will stay with DUST will find a corp to join and avoid getting pubstomped, and the casuals will leave anyways like they would have done.
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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 02:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:Eternal Technique wrote:Corp matches aren't rewarding? Depends on the contracts you accept I suppose. Considering if you met that group in a pub match, every player would get at least 1m+ individually at the end of the game, yes they aren't rewarding. true but the idea of hisec pub matches isnt to be a corp stomping ground infact ccp should encourage corps to get out of hisec right now contracts dont mean much but i expect that to change. CCP needs to make hisec unrewarding for corps so they look to seek greener pastures if by implementing a teamwide grouping mechanic where ppl can fill entire teams and get decent to great rewards u take away any reason for the majority of corps to even go losec and play FW corp battles. Caz mentioned this in 1 of his posts and i agree with him 4 man squads are fine for 16v16 6 man squads are fine for 24v24 8 man squads are fine for 32v32 that way games arent totally dominated by 1 corp just showing up for a free win to farm red dots and the casual players and solo players can still wonder around and play without having to constantly worry or back out of games for fear of just gettin wrecked everytime and not enjoying themselves. Ppl gotta look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture is there are always alot more casuals playing a game than clan oriented players. We already have lowsec and nullsec for corps to stomp around in dont need to take away the only place the majority of the playerbase can have some fun as well Maybe the idea shouldn't be get corps out of high sec, it should be to get randoms into corps. We are playing a team-based game that doesn't allow organized teams. Remember MAG? Yeah... The whole no clan deploy thing was GRRREEEAAATTT.... Honestly, I get sick of hearing "protect the casuals". Make DUST a hardcore game, and the hardcore fans will support it to its death. And slowly the game sill grow larger. FOTM players aren't gonna be incentivized to play more by iving them boring pub games with a team full of random bluedots. Corps are the main draw of DUST, and thats where the focus should be, not the butthurt feelings of casual #736265227 who is mad he got trumped by teamwork. Pubstomping is a reality of any large team based game. And honestly, thats fine. The people who will stay with DUST will find a corp to join and avoid getting pubstomped, and the casuals will leave anyways like they would have done. The way the gaming industry works is this - You get casuals to obtain hardcore. Since they're concentrating on launch casuals should be there focus. Afterwords, the hardcore players get the love.
I disagree. Make a game for casuals, and they move on when the newest ice cream flavor comes out. Poof, there goes your fanbase. Hardcore players are left disgusted, and now you got no one.
Too many casual games out there right now. DUST needs to differentiate itself to people; MAKE IT HARD.
Fun, rewarding, deep, but don't cater to the capricious whims of a casual.
My 0.02 ISK |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eh. I could agree with your points above, except it makes for boring gameplay right now. I don't really want to play against randoms all day in a 4 man squad. But the alternstive is a corp battle with only 8 players that doesn't award me any SP or ISK personally, and thats just pointless to me.
Honestly the crux of the disagreement is whether or not organized groups in pub mathes will ruin the game. I say it will make it more fun, at the moment I find DUST pretty bland. You guys think it will turn away casuals and kill the game.
I hate to say it, but their needs to be some form of corp match that awards ISK/SP, because otherwise I will never play this game in the low/null sec areas. I think at some point we are all just gonna have to deal with people farming SP in corp battles, because otherwise it makes the game pointless for those playing legitamitely. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 18:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:these nerds can't play the game as it is.
they are all breathily awaiting the day when some crappy codboi AI bot mode is released so they won't be losing to humans any more.
blaming the clans for pubstomping? so you're blaming the clans because YOUR team lost so bad? you guys have a team. you guys have mics. you DON'T use em so you blame the clans for you getting redlined? interesting technique.
agreed though... clans standing around in pube rooms beating up on you nerds does nothing for them, nor the game. but it's dust, not babysitting mmo, so if the devs want this game to tank, keep up with the handholding and protecting of the casuals from their own incompetence.
if they want this game to actually go someplace, at somepoint, they have to open the cages and let the mosnters out. that's just the long and short of it.
Peace B
My thoughts exactly.
The answer is not to protect the casuals, but to make joining corps so appealing, obvious, and easy of a descision that the people not in corps will be a minority... Kind of like EVE.
Also, I am still awaiting a good solution to the problem of how is a nullsec corp gonna get any SP when corp battles don't award SP.
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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 19:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:
@ J how is it like EVE? isnt the majority of players in EVE in hisec and carebears who mine rocks and dont pvp? so u want CCP to encourage corps to be carebears just sitting in hisec farming noobs in dust?
CCP should be encouraging corps to fight EACH OTHER not stomp randoms. This MAG mentality ppl got gotta drop.
Put zerg deploy in hisec and u'll never see another contract go up because teams wont take any risks they will just sit in hisec and pub their entire dust life i can guarantee u that.
To answer ur question about SP its simple u pub....whats wrong with pubbin with 1 squad? grind ur SP , do some PVE and grind SP there as well inbetween ur lowsec and nullsec fights. Simple solution is simple. Seperating the playerbase on a game that will have a small playerbase is a bad move so CCP also needs to make sure ppl play hisec pub games inbetween their low and null battles to keep games flowing.
I came to this game as a team based shooter.
If FW and 0.0 battles are as few and far between as you say, then I guess this game isn't for me, and in fact, I really doubt the success of it at all.
I will not be wasting my time on playing a team based game with only 4 people.
If FW and 0.0 battes are much more often (as I suspect they will be, there is a whole lotta planets in New Eden to take), then once again, where is the solution to the SP problem, once again?
All of your ideas are an immense turn off to a corp. I want to play with my friends, I don't want to get penalized for being a team, and I want to be rewarded like anyone else with SP for playing. This isn't my freaking job to play DUST. It is for my entertainment, and at the moment, I get no entertainment from playing in a 4 person squad, and I get no reward from playing contract battles.
How long has MAG chugged along even with zerg deploys? It still has players going solo.
Still protecting the casuals. What don't you guys get about them? They don't care about DUST at all, and when the next best thing comes out, they will leave. There is already a CoD and BF3 in the market. Make something different. Change the formula. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 20:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I disagree. Make a game for casuals, and they move on when the newest ice cream flavor comes out. Poof, there goes your fanbase. Hardcore players are left disgusted, and now you got no one.
Too many casual games out there right now. DUST needs to differentiate itself to people; MAKE IT HARD.
Fun, rewarding, deep, but don't cater to the capricious whims of a casual.
My 0.02 ISK This is absurd. The game can be good for BOTH casuals AND "hardcore" players. It's incredibly foolish to make it exclusively for one or the other, and hey, guess what, hardcore players often begin as casual players. If you drive away casuals by making the game ****** for them to play, you ensure that your playerbase will not grow and that your game will not succeed. +100 this is why hisec needs to be the casual free zone and those that gradually wish to seek more out of their gameplay experience will naturally gravitate towards finding lowsec and nullsec corps , some will even look for corps that heavy into gladiator arenas and tournament play 5x is right everyone starts off as a casual player, hell i did then i got a taste of clan battles back on KZ2 and became hooked on the more competitive side of games
Ok. Then make a place for corps to deploy full teams and still gain SP and ISK. Like, a seperate queue for those who want to play with a full team. Keep high sec 4 player squads only, but form an early precursor to low sec where full teams can play matchmaking in another queue. Randoms could still join, but they would know that there would be corps in there.
Is that a better solution? |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 21:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well, I presented a median solution.
On one hand, I have Mav saying "why do u care about SP" and on the other hand, a claim that a corp matchmaking shstem would promote boosting.
As I said before, I think my corpmates and I would rather play against organized opposition most of the time, and aboid high sec as much as possible. Making high sec the only place to earn SP is a poor design choice imo.
I just don't think I would find myself playing DUST much if I only ever earn SP in say, an 8 person swuad in a 64 player game. Like it or not, I have to care about SP because of the huge advantages it gives. If I simple don't care about it, I will permanently be at a disadvantage.
So the question remains... How do we have organized teams play pub matchmaking against other teams, whilst still earning ISK and SP? All while avoiding pubstomping randoms? |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Well, I presented a median solution. No, you didn't. You didn't present a solution, because there isn't a problem. If you want to fight in large, organized teams, you have corp battles which reward no ISK/SP beyond the contract terms to the winner. If you want to play with friends for ISK/SP, you can hop in a squad and queue for public games. Quote:So the question remains... How do we have organized teams play pub matchmaking against other teams, whilst still earning ISK and SP? All while avoiding pubstomping randoms? The question doesn't remain. The question was solved by CCP the moment they added in squads and squad-queuing for fights.
Missing the point again, and I don't know if I should repeat it, but here goes.
Limiting the only place you can gain SP to pub matches with a squad of 4 goes totally against the vision of teamwork in this game. Protoman made a solution very similar to mine; make a queue in high sec for solo players only, and make another one where its anything goes.
Problem solved.
I honestly don't undersrand why you want to limit corps this way, but to each their own I guess |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Harken Torkal wrote:Join public games for SP and ISK and recruits.
Join corp games for the challenges that are suitable for your skill as a player.
People who join public games with squads in high level gear with the intent of getting cheap kills are not worth the effort of spitting on. You do not build community, you do not encourage new players to stay, you do not encourage players to join your corp: you are bad people and serve as bad PR for the game. You are the cancer that kills the community from the inside.
If CCP gets the linkage right, Capsuleers will be pouring money into DUST514 in order to improve their space.
In the meantime, stop worrying so much about the SP needed for the next shiny thing, and focus on using your current shiny things as best you can. There is more player and team skill required in this game than SP with shiny things will compensate for.
SP is huge in this game, and don't tell me it isnt. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
SATORI CORUSCANTi wrote:I think one part of protoman's post got a bit overlooked. What is wrong with this idea? xprotoman23 wrote:CCP should simply add a "mercenary" playlist like COD does so people that want to be randomly matched up can have an enjoyable experience. EDIT: Mercenary playlist for those who don't know is a separate queue where groups cannot enter
This is the best solution I have seen yet tbh |
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