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Virgil Memphisto
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
7
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Posted - 2012.12.06 12:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Newtons laws mean there will always be some recoil effect. You apply a force to matter to force it one direction. That matter applies that force back at you. So even in the far future there is likley to be some recoil, even with plasma bullets. Recoil has been taken away from both sub and the AR. Given the AR's versatility it needs something or in its current form, it is too much of an all rounder. So much so the breach is now redundant.
The sub species of rifle need their own focus.
Standard and breach need same range but have them work differently. I would probably have these two as shortest range of the AR flavours, not sure on distances to apply.
Standard AR
The weapon used to walk up the screen when on full auto. Now it barely moves, so much so ads is redundant. Bring back the pull and judder!
Take away the zoom leave iron sights. (not sure about this but it would fit with suggested grouping)
Reduce mag size to the same as militia.(or45)
Breach AR
Iron sights
For now leave its recoil as is - to find a role and balance this rifle against standard will be hard
With same range as standard it should make a come back
Reduce mag to same as above.
The dps between these two may well have to be different, I suspect that the standard will have greater dps, but it's problem is hitting the target, a problem which the breach will not have to anywhere near the same degree.
Burst AR
Burst, this one I would class with the tactical, but reduce its effective range so it sits between tac and the two above. (a hybrid of standard and tactical)
Reduce mag to around 45
Reduce number of shots in burst to 5
Give it more kick than the standard (higher ROF) so you have to require target once fired
Keeps zoom sight
Tactical AR
Keeps its long range but like the laser make it useless up close, basis being the magnetic casing to propel the plasma simply has not disapated enough to let the plasma break out.
Give it the same kick as the breach
Keeps zoomed sight
Reduce mag size to say 22
Reduce ROF to slightly less than breach
The AR 's need to be balanced to one another but also have their own role with the group. The hardest one to place is the standard full auto. If it can hip fire then the breach is redundant. If it has silly range, it impinges on the tac and out ranges the laser. But for the game it has to be the general purpose gun, to which all others are compared. If the branches of the AR family cannot be balanced than its going to be hard to place and balance all others.
Damage up the tiers.
While people will complain, the difference in damage from new/casual player is huge. The full auto guns currently on the market have a full 20% increase, basic. That seems too high and increase, and will no doubt in the future put players off what is a f2p game. I would suggest that figure be halved if other things are to stay the same.. Or keep damage the same (so 30 for all auto rifles) and increase the ROF and recoil to the higher tier gun so the gun matches the player skilled with the sticks. The game needs to be playable to new players and reward those who have ground an those with natural ability with the input device of their choosing. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 16:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ironsights are coming fore some ARs, confirmed on twitter: https://twitter.com/CCP_CmdrWang/status/271879431184846848
AR imbalance is being addressed with recoil and range changes.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=381213#post381213
"Assault Rifles (Breach especially) - the ultimate weapons of DUST 514
Update: The recoil will be tuned up slightly as well as revisting optimal range for weapons in general in future updates. "
I disagree with your proposed changes, especially the reduction in magazine size.
With your proposed revision of higher weapon tiers, there would be no reason to use anything but militia. |
Virgil Memphisto
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
7
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
The reason why i suggested the change to damage so even new good players have a chance 6months from launch. as it stands the guys carrying the duvolle have 20% basic, plus 15% general gun skill, plus the spec skill another 15%? ( plus the reload, range skill etc.)
In theory the guy with the duvolle will have 50% more damage, and more armour than the new player. It is unlikely that the casual/new guy will get the kills to get the skills when armour and suit mods are thrown in too. That then makes the game a clique, and not one anyone can easily enter.
Time served and the skill levels should give a bonus but the above will put off new players as they cannot compete or do much apart from act as a meat shield, that's why it should be reduced.
The mag sizes, well the more often you have to reload means that for a few seconds you are vulnerable. It would help out balancing the game 6months from launch. The season guy is still going to be using less bullets to kill someone and his reload time would still be quicker than a new player. It would IMO just give that little bit more weakness and open the door to the newer players. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 16:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
There will be a matchmaking system for highsec (battles in high security where you fight for NPCs and not yourself or other real players, and battles have no real consequence), and it will match players by skill points, so new players won't be matched against vets. |
Free Beers
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1041
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 16:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Game play is more important than physics or reality or whatever. I do agree that a bit of recoil is needed.
CCP has already ruined the breach because of feedback like this. They always over nerf/change things. I fully expect to never be able to hit people with AR once they 'fix' the recoil bug. You are really asking to nerf individual skill and make it more gear dependent which is even worse for new players
Also while ccp cares about the new players you balance a game to the top not the bottom. What you are seeing a lot is high skill players using proto weapons with damage mods getting head shots. I kill people and get killed all the time with Milita assault rifles and it needs to stay that way.
You over thought the problem at hand. CCP is at tweaking statges with AR not scrap/start over. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2012.12.06 20:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Game play is more important than physics or reality or whatever. I do agree that a bit of recoil is needed.
CCP has already ruined the breach because of feedback like this. They always over nerf/change things. I fully expect to never be able to hit people with AR once they 'fix' the recoil bug. You are really asking to nerf individual skill and make it more gear dependent which is even worse for new players
Also while ccp cares about the new players you balance a game to the top not the bottom. What you are seeing a lot is high skill players using proto weapons with damage mods getting head shots. I kill people and get killed all the time with Milita assault rifles and it needs to stay that way.
You over thought the problem at hand. CCP is at tweaking statges with AR not scrap/start over.
you balance a game to the bottom than to the middle than to the top, starting players will always be at the bottom, thus the point of this thread, giving starting players a chance and not you fat rich cats that can run around in proto gear 24/7.
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Piercing Serenity
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
181
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Posted - 2012.12.06 21:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:Free Beers wrote:Game play is more important than physics or reality or whatever. I do agree that a bit of recoil is needed.
CCP has already ruined the breach because of feedback like this. They always over nerf/change things. I fully expect to never be able to hit people with AR once they 'fix' the recoil bug. You are really asking to nerf individual skill and make it more gear dependent which is even worse for new players
Also while ccp cares about the new players you balance a game to the top not the bottom. What you are seeing a lot is high skill players using proto weapons with damage mods getting head shots. I kill people and get killed all the time with Milita assault rifles and it needs to stay that way.
You over thought the problem at hand. CCP is at tweaking statges with AR not scrap/start over. you balance a game to the bottom than to the middle than to the top, starting players will always be at the bottom, thus the point of this thread, giving starting players a chance and not you fat rich cats that can run around in proto gear 24/7.
Free Beers is right. It is more important for CCP to keep players that they have - high end players - than people who might bounce in and out of the game. Secondly, you should watch your words. I'd argue that is you had the money and the SP investment, you would run prototype gear like us "fat rich cats".
It is unfortunate that ARs are killing you. It's even more unfortunate that they aren't as balanced as they could be. But the way you want to balance them seems to stem from the former concern.
Take care,
PSN: PiercingSerenity
Country: US
Class: Assault, Heavy
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