DUST Search - Farming, so what.

Abron Garr wrote:

I wasn't sure if they were still heading in that direction. My question is will WPs be "banked" after matches so that drivers can use them at the start of a match or will they have to be earned in each match? There are serious problems with both avenues. One makes pilots/drivers useless for a good portion of a fight. The other potentially makes PS spammable (which is why we needed the repair WP nerf). If they're banked, are they a corp asset or a personal asset? Can we buy/sell WP? etc.

As a non-vehicle user I can (selfishly) see the benefits of making drivers and pilots deal with infantry before being allowed to call in their favorite pwnmobile. But I also realize that would **** off a lot of drivers/pilots and turn them into shooting clays for half the match. Even though the idea of reducing the number of vehicles on the map sounds appealing at first, it makes me hesitant to actually favor that idea. I enjoy blowing up vehicles and the tank spam encouraged me to level up an AV-Heavy.

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fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.04 12:17:00 - [1] - Quote logi, and vehicle spawn and damage incentives need to be returned. So what if people are farming thats why we have a cap no?? there is no reason to spec into anti vehicle because of the meager point returns on them. Sure if you kill a tank you get ok returns but half a team can chase an uber tank around the map for half the game and still not kill it, that's a potentially very large loss for who ever participated in hunting it. better that you get some WP for every 1-2k dmg you do, and only 50 for the kill. same with spawn modules why should I sacrifice then tank on my very expensive vehicle with a module that is not easy to fit for no returns. I dont use the logi at all any more why bother. im for more dangerous in every other suit, and therefore I point better.the only reason for the logi is team support especially with armor. but a nano on my scout can get to a needy heavy faster, its easier to sneak an uplink behind enemy lines with a scout, why bother with rep-tools its too much of a time investment for no returns, and every one worth a damn rolls with a needle. Agreed all of this only affects pub matches, but this is where people learn the game and decide where they want to spend skill points. why should new people invest or people only interested in the much lauded logis stick around. I could care less about SP farming more power to you if you find that fun, Personally I don't, so ill just play the fun way.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.12.04 12:33:00 - [2] - Quote It's not just SP, it's also WP. Enough WP gets you an Orbital Bombardment. Before they took the temporary measure of removing repair SP we were dodging Precision Strikes every minute and a half.
Musta Tornius BetaMax. 265	Posted - 2012.12.04 12:35:00 - [3] - Quote It ruins public games, that's all.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2012.12.04 13:20:00 - [4] - Quote Not one to pick but the English in this forum is astounding.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.12.04 13:34:00 - [5] - Quote You don't follow up on development do you? CCP said that they will return war point gains for logistics players once they figured out a long term solution to the orbital strike spamming that occurred once every minute. What you are seeing now is nothing more than a temporary stop gap measure.
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2012.12.04 13:37:00 - [6] - Quote Captain Who cares??
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2012.12.04 20:11:00 - [7] - Quote I feel that all of the above posts make sense, as in they are all logical deductions. My solution if anyone cares is to break WP into categories. So therefore Orbital Strike WP requirements could only come from kills, hacks, and vehicle destruction, while the other categories such as equipment use are just a nice additional layer of WP you've earned. As far as farming goes, the repper should not give WP to your own vehicle, and have a cap of WP (or time interval break) per one thing repaired. Thus you have to repair more than just one item to actually farm WP, which would aid your team.
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.12.04 20:21:00 - [8] - Quote I want to farm some isk.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.12.04 20:37:00 - [9] - Quote Honestly, I never really liked the idea of WPs. Why not just put Precision Strikes on a 10 minute or so CD? Each team gets to use at least one, but you have to make it worth it. The way the system currently plays, the PS is more of a coup de gr+óce rather than a pivot that changes the battle. The teams dropping the most PS usually are winning anyway and the team losing usually doesn't produce enough WPs to drop one effectively. There are exceptions, of course, but most of the battles I see usually follow that rule. Orbital Strikes should have more liberal mechanics in Null/Low, IMO. But when it comes to using PS from a War Barge, I don't see a reason to tie them strictly to WPs. Also, If we ever get any more battles that have assigned Attackers and Defenders (I assume we will, otherwise what's the point of holding Sov?), I'd like to see the Attackers get the current PS from the War Barge and a different visual for the Defenders (Perhaps a bomber run or an artillery strike). Same damage, same length of time on target - just more "flavor" and immersion.
Beyobi Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 44	Posted - 2012.12.04 20:58:00 - [10] - Quote [quote=Bojo The Mighty] My solution if anyone cares is to break WP into categories. So therefore Orbital Strike WP requirements could only come from kills, hacks, and vehicle destruction, while the other categories such as equipment use are just a nice additional layer of WP you've earned. WP are stictly for calling in Orbital support. There are no other Uses for WP currently. So what you are asking is to be given points that do nothing. Why earn WP if it goes to nothing? It's not just another score to rank people by.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.04 21:07:00 - [11] - Quote Farming isn't fun and is just a very boring means to getting points. CCP shouldn't be facilitating gameplay that isn't fun. Abron Garr wrote: Honestly, I never really liked the idea of WPs. Why not just put Precision Strikes on a 10 minute or so CD? The plan was (is?) for vehicles to require WP to call in eventually as well. Presumably there'll be other things tied to WP on top of that.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.12.04 21:42:00 - [12] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Farming isn't fun and is just a very boring means to getting points. CCP shouldn't be facilitating gameplay that isn't fun. Abron Garr wrote: Honestly, I never really liked the idea of WPs. Why not just put Precision Strikes on a 10 minute or so CD? The plan was (is?) for vehicles to require WP to call in eventually as well. Presumably there'll be other things tied to WP on top of that. I wasn't sure if they were still heading in that direction. My question is will WPs be "banked" after matches so that drivers can use them at the start of a match or will they have to be earned in each match? There are serious problems with both avenues. One makes pilots/drivers useless for a good portion of a fight. The other potentially makes PS spammable (which is why we needed the repair WP nerf). If they're banked, are they a corp asset or a personal asset? Can we buy/sell WP? etc. As a non-vehicle user I can (selfishly) see the benefits of making drivers and pilots deal with infantry before being allowed to call in their favorite pwnmobile. But I also realize that would **** off a lot of drivers/pilots and turn them into shooting clays for half the match. Even though the idea of reducing the number of vehicles on the map sounds appealing at first, it makes me hesitant to actually favor that idea. I enjoy blowing up vehicles and the tank spam encouraged me to level up an AV-Heavy.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.04 23:32:00 - [13] - Quote Beyobi wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: My solution if anyone cares is to break WP into categories. So therefore Orbital Strike WP requirements could only come from kills, hacks, and vehicle destruction, while the other categories such as equipment use are just a nice additional layer of WP you've earned. WP are stictly for calling in Orbital support. There are no other Uses for WP currently. So what you are asking is to be given points that do nothing. Why earn WP if it goes to nothing? It's not just another score to rank people by. Actually, WP are mainly for showing who contributed the most to their team. More WP also = more rewards, since you're on the top of the leaderboard. Allowing farming right now is to allow people who do nothing to help their team get credited as the team's "MVP", and rewarded likewise, while the people who actually do help don't get as much credit as they deserve. On the other hand, legitimate logis (such as myself) got a massive WP nerf, yet we still do our job, and don't get the credit to reflect it. Not to mention dropship pilots who actually do their job instead of farming kills NEVER got the stack of WP they deserve.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:08:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You don't follow up on development do you? CCP said that they will return war point gains for logistics players once they figured out a long term solution to the orbital strike spamming that occurred once every minute. What you are seeing now is nothing more than a temporary stop gap measure. ya my bad thanks for the response.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:21:00 - [15] - Quote I didn't realize that repping was causing spamming of PS, and that I agree is a deal breaker. As for only repping one thing giving diminishing returns, bad idea thats where a logi is most effective. The Idea that only some WP apply to PS is not a bad idea tho kinda awkward and gimmicky to implement. I dunno be interesting to see if we can come up with a solution here.
DJINN Riot Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:31:00 - [16] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: It's not just SP, it's also WP. Enough WP gets you an Orbital Bombardment. Before they took the temporary measure of removing repair SP we were dodging Precision Strikes every minute and a half. That has been fixed with the Orbital hotfix that occured at the same time the WP hotfix came out. Orbitals used to take half as many WP's.
DJINN Riot Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:37:00 - [17] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Beyobi wrote: [quote=Bojo The Mighty] My solution if anyone cares is to break WP into categories. So therefore Orbital Strike WP requirements could only come from kills, hacks, and vehicle destruction, while the other categories such as equipment use are just a nice additional layer of WP you've earned. On the other hand, legitimate logis (such as myself) got a massive WP nerf, yet we still do our job, and don't get the credit to reflect it. Not to mention dropship pilots who actually do their job instead of farming kills NEVER got the stack of WP they deserve. Massive? You must be kidding me, I hardly got WP's for repping before the hotfix anyways. You had to rep for a certain amount of time to get credited with the SP's, and it was almost impossible on assaults/scouts.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:11:00 - [18] - Quote Abron Garr wrote: I wasn't sure if they were still heading in that direction. My question is will WPs be "banked" after matches so that drivers can use them at the start of a match or will they have to be earned in each match? There are serious problems with both avenues. One makes pilots/drivers useless for a good portion of a fight. The other potentially makes PS spammable (which is why we needed the repair WP nerf). If they're banked, are they a corp asset or a personal asset? Can we buy/sell WP? etc. As a non-vehicle user I can (selfishly) see the benefits of making drivers and pilots deal with infantry before being allowed to call in their favorite pwnmobile. But I also realize that would **** off a lot of drivers/pilots and turn them into shooting clays for half the match. Even though the idea of reducing the number of vehicles on the map sounds appealing at first, it makes me hesitant to actually favor that idea. I enjoy blowing up vehicles and the tank spam encouraged me to level up an AV-Heavy. The way they talked about it, they specifically referred to WPs indicating an "escalation of conflict". I can't speak for them obviously, but I don't believe they'd want any WP banking. Instead, they'd maybe keep stuff like LAVs as either being 0 WP to call in, so that you can have vehicles initially, you just can't immediately roll out 5 tanks like you can now. And I'm not sure it's as much about reducing vehicle numbers. Having stuff require WP adds a layer of strategy where once there was just 5 tanks. Do you call in an orbital strike, or get another tank? It also makes tanks themselves have more value than simply the wallet expense of whoever bought the thing, as a tank wasted is WP wasted. The net result might be fewer tanks, but I think the goal is really to just make corp fights involve a more intelligent level of strategy, as you'll need to carefully decide what you want your WP to be spent on. As the game progresses, and more vehicles and installations and other stuff is added, it'll only get more involved.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:12:00 - [19] - Quote DJINN Riot wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Beyobi wrote: [quote=Bojo The Mighty] My solution if anyone cares is to break WP into categories. So therefore Orbital Strike WP requirements could only come from kills, hacks, and vehicle destruction, while the other categories such as equipment use are just a nice additional layer of WP you've earned. On the other hand, legitimate logis (such as myself) got a massive WP nerf, yet we still do our job, and don't get the credit to reflect it. Not to mention dropship pilots who actually do their job instead of farming kills NEVER got the stack of WP they deserve. Massive? You must be kidding me, I hardly got WP's for repping before the hotfix anyways. You had to rep for a certain amount of time to get credited with the SP's, and it was almost impossible on assaults/scouts. yea heavys or almost dead assults were the only thing that you could really point on oh and vehicles.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:17:00 - [20] - Quote DJINN Riot wrote: Timothy Reaper wrote: It's not just SP, it's also WP. Enough WP gets you an Orbital Bombardment. Before they took the temporary measure of removing repair SP we were dodging Precision Strikes every minute and a half. That has been fixed with the Orbital hotfix that occured at the same time the WP hotfix came out. Orbitals used to take half as many WP's. With 2 players spamming repair WPs, the increased WP requirement wouldn't have made much of a difference.

fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:33:00 - [21] - Quote now that you mention it DJINN riot I never did any better point wise repping neddleing and nanoing a very agressive heavy all match long. hell assaults and tanks net far more WP in a match but theyre not getting any nerfs. COMMENCE FLAME WAR!!!
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:35:00 - [22] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: now that you mention it DJINN riot I never did any better point wise repping neddleing and nanoing a very agressive heavy all match long. hell assaults and tanks net far more WP in a match but theyre not getting any nerfs. COMMENCE FLAME WAR!!! an assault can't sit still and accumulate all them wp, vehicles on the other hand pre missile nerf netted stupid amounts of wp because of the vehicle assist points to everyone on board.
HECATONCHIRES GYGES Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:53:00 - [23] - Quote It really is kind of Dumb that there is no Damage wp to tanks like there was in previous builds...if no one has the incentive to pick one up then why will they......leading to tank nerfs/small missle turrets and taking the game off in tangents instead of a positive direction......if there is no wp for damage no one SPECS proto swarms.Everyone get powned by tanks ... QQ in forums...tank nerf. They have reppers on them tanks/drop ships you used to get the wp for damage...I know how the repp mechanic was abused ok. I got it. Weve had all these vehicle nerfs in this build because of this issue with there being A)no random picking up a swarmmer B)not skilling it to proto C)not being able to completely kill it because of either driver skill/shields D)no one playing Logi when the tank roles up and owns so no pick ups because no reason to skill Logi.Resulting in less logis in battle. E)No incentive to play Logi because you are not getting these wp so then no recognition on the Leaderboards/for Wp F)No one playing Logi so the Devs are getting no feedback on sensor modules. G)No one skilling Logi Lav's H)No one skills Logi Armor tanks become worthless The solution is simple ...do not allow repping behind the enemy redline of advance.This person (the farmer) will have to do this out where he can be seen.I personally would pick up a sniper rifle and shoot this guy repeatedly and farm him....problem solved.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.05 08:40:00 - [24] - Quote Here here


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