DUST Search - Just to give you an idea how rich some of us Goons are: (AKA EVE/DUST ECONOMIC L...

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

I'm a FPS player first and an EVE player second, don't just stereotype and assume that we're "zerging" like the other uninformed idiots out there. I like you're CEO, he's a good bloke and he knows what he's doing in a lot of things that i've seen thus far and have a lot of respect for your corp, don't sour it by being a **** and trying to stereotype us when we don't do that to you and just assume you're another stupid MAG clan.

If you'd like to have an intelligent discussion about the FPS side of things and how it will interact with EVE and how EVE ISK will still have an impact on Dust, even with things like player limits etc i'd be more than happy to have that discussion with you, but again, make it an intelligent discussion rather than just trying to sound like a macho ****.

The point of this thread was to show how much money some EVE players can throw away and start a discussion on it, we're by no means the only rich people in the game and if you want contracts from us, you should at least take the time to talk to us like people and not children. Sometimes the point of a thread is just to show of something cool and funny and that loss mail is something we laugh about and i'd like to share with my fellow Dusters, is that such a bad thing?... But it also allows people to see why Dust is going to be important to EVE as a huge ISK sink to stop people throwing away massive volumes of ISK like that on a single ship.

There's lots of reasons to share it and that can be discussed from it, why should i pick the specific topic of discussion? I decided to share something cool and funny. Why don't you choose to discuss something and add something to the thread?

Reg, i'd personally sponsor you for ***** and giggles and i'm worth several billion more each passing week.

Man, why are you consistently disrespecting MAG clans? "....assume you're just another stupid MAG clan"

Some of the best corps/players in the beta are from MAG. And to be honest, what would this beta be if it weren't for MAG clans?


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Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:13:00 - [1] - Quote http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14154867 That's over 10 billion isk lost in fittings and the hull cost of a single ship. This is why the economy has to be balanced and done gradually or people like us who can afford to throw that much money away on small gang PVP, not even Nullsec warfare, will have a huge advantage. Now all have a laugh at uncle SUAS's loss mail because it's one of my favs and i take the **** out of him every time i see him now, but still worth sharing with you guys just how rich we are. :EDIT: This fast turned into an economic thread and a serious discussion by the end of this page: Take not kiddies.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:33:00 - [2] - Quote I'm a FPS player first and an EVE player second, don't just stereotype and assume that we're "zerging" like the other uninformed idiots out there. I like you're CEO, he's a good bloke and he knows what he's doing in a lot of things that i've seen thus far and have a lot of respect for your corp, don't sour it by being a ** and trying to stereotype us when we don't do that to you and just assume you're another stupid MAG clan. If you'd like to have an intelligent discussion about the FPS side of things and how it will interact with EVE and how EVE ISK will still have an impact on Dust, even with things like player limits etc i'd be more than happy to have that discussion with you, but again, make it an intelligent discussion rather than just trying to sound like a macho . The point of this thread was to show how much money some EVE players can throw away and start a discussion on it, we're by no means the only rich people in the game and if you want contracts from us, you should at least take the time to talk to us like people and not children. Sometimes the point of a thread is just to show of something cool and funny and that loss mail is something we laugh about and i'd like to share with my fellow Dusters, is that such a bad thing?... But it also allows people to see why Dust is going to be important to EVE as a huge ISK sink to stop people throwing away massive volumes of ISK like that on a single ship. There's lots of reasons to share it and that can be discussed from it, why should i pick the specific topic of discussion? I decided to share something cool and funny. Why don't you choose to discuss something and add something to the thread? Reg, i'd personally sponsor you for *** and giggles and i'm worth several billion more each passing week.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 00:48:00 - [3] - Quote It's going to be very, very, very difficult for CCP to balance it and i dont think they'll ever be able to balance it perfectly prior to breaking the walls down and letting the two economies interact with each other. Personally, i have HUGE concerns about this and it's going to have a massive impact on one of the games while allowing the players of the other game to gain a lot of money or stock one way or the other. Either way i'm personally sure to profit having that i play both games and i'm pretty spacerich but still, that don't limit the worry that i have about this, it's got to be my biggest concern about both games. If they put too much emphasis on Dust from the EVE side they will loose EVE players over it because they can be that fickle about things and they if put too little emphasis on it Dust won't have a respectable player base that that could really hamper the games future, especially considering how the game plays right now, it's no battlefield thats for sure. Also, that Rattlecock as we called it was SUAS's bait and tank ship as you can obviously tell as an EVE player, look at what it took to take down that little battleship, 2 deadnaughts and 23 other ships, mainly battlecruisers. That ship could take one hell of a beating and was amazing for drawing out people to fight us when used as bait. Was pretty funny when SUAS lost it though.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 01:03:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Also, that Rattlecock as we called it was SUAS's bait and tank ship as you can obviously tell as an EVE player, look at what it took to take down that little battleship, 2 deadnaughts and 23 other ships, mainly battlecruisers. That ship could take one hell of a beating and was amazing for drawing out people to fight us when used as bait. Was pretty funny when SUAS lost it though. That's one expensive bait. I'm also surprised that it took a Revelation and a Moros to kill it. We'd often get bored on gate camps etc in Syndicate and the whole gang would open up on SUAS just to see if we could ever break his tank, sometimes there was 30-40 of us messing about and couldn't scratch it, it's an amazing ship to FC from and killmailwhore but not very practical if you ever want to kill things, i much prefer a Vindicator for that personally. Being able to pop cruisers in a single volley is a pretty great feeling. SUAS is hardly short on ISK either, he did steal a titan from us at one point as i'm sure you all know from his song. http://soundcloud.com/shutupandshave/i-robbed-a-goon
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 01:23:00 - [5] - Quote LOL that's a good reply. I'll give you a +1 for that. I'm use to these forums being excessively hostile and i've been on a break so you'll have to forgive me for jumping to conclusions! Just look at the response i got from ZionShad in the CSM discussion thread, not much love there. A single person will not effect my opinion of a group of people no, but i do for some reason tend to expect all players of the came corp to act in a similar manner, i know people are individuals but stereotypically people pick corps based on similar interests and ideals and maybe its years of Goon indoctrination but i just expect some semblance of similarity from people of matching tags. Call that old age on my part if you like. This is by no means a EPEEN thread, it's title may make you think that but typically anything with the wood GOON in it gets peoples attention around here and i like a good thread every once in awhile, i'm no where near as spacerich as some folk, i'm pretty poor in really but if you compare my balance to that of your average EVE player i'm considered pretty rich because i can afford to fly around in a 3 billion isk ship myself and pay for my game time using in game cash rather than real life money. It's all about perspective i guess but you did come into the thread all guns blazing to be fair.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 01:24:00 - [6] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: It's going to be very, very, very difficult for CCP to balance it and i dont think they'll ever be able to balance it perfectly prior to breaking the walls down and letting the two economies interact with each other. This I totally agree with. I think I just contributed positively to the thread, ugh. OP SUCCESS then i guess. I've no idea where to even begin speculating on how they're going to even get this to work, maybe a chat CCP_Nuthin is in order, is he still around on the forums?
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 02:31:00 - [7] - Quote I didn't attack him, i voiced an opinion i knew he wouldn't like because i hate "shmoozers" i think you americans call them that, correct me if i'm wrong. It's interesting to come back after a little break and see how certain individuals have managed to convince large portions of the community to support their own selfish agendas when there's little to no reason for it at all just yet. Someone had to say something and there's a good chance a lot of people who've been here while i've been away have failed to notice it as a large change in direction for many people simple because its been done gradually so as not to attract attention. Anyway, moving on! People love EPEEN Mushroom stamps here, it's what i hate about the console community myself but i think that could just be an age things as you're average console gamer is younger than me now a days. They've attracted more users over the years and i've just got older. Yes i see the similarities you mentioned too, which is part of the reason i like you guys so much, you attract a lot of ** for the same reasons so i can relate because i know a lot of it is just jealous idiots. I wouldn't say Goons don't let people be individuals, we actually encourage it but anyone who's just an outright idiot or does something that you couldn't get away with in the real world, like sexism, racism etc is instantly called out over it and typically hung drawn and quartered publicly. We do expect a certain level of maturity from our guys internally at least, we couldn't a give what do to non goons as many people know. Project anything you like, i respect people with opinions and who are straight up a hell of a lot more than those manipulative types as i'm pretty sure you've worked out already, i'm always rubbing someone up the wrong way though, though voicing my opinion, being older or just being a part of a culture a lot of people don't get, i stopped letting it bother me years ago. Omnipotens Zitro wrote:** Cerebral, I totally agree with you. TBH I don't think CCP can do anything to stop the flow of ISK really. We are going to be given contracts from EVE corps and alliances. They will be the ones giving dust Merc ISK. So how can CCP stop the flow of ISK? The CSM has actually released their agenda for the winter summit recently there's to be discussions by the CSM on the EVE/Dust link, i've formally requested that the CSM also bring the topic of conversation over here as it's important that part of the discussion takes place here with us not being limited by the NDA and not everyone here being EVE players either. I hope they listen because this is massively important stuff and shouldn't be left just to a single community to discuss. As far as your post, the theory right now, as far as we know is that EVE corps will place contracts to pay Dust corps so obviously there's going to be a cross over and a link but it's the larger economic stuff that worries me, manufacturing, item costs etc. There's nothing stopping Goonwaffe putting up a 100 billion isk contract up on the first day for a planet directly to our corp and paying us even if we loose i'm guessing and that's got to be addressed. There's also the fact that corp contracts don't pay individual corp members, it's deposits the funds into the corp wallet for the CEO/Directors to distribute which i also think is open to abuse for isk transfer reasons so i've actually emailed CmdrWang about it hoping to get some more details because i've got some ideas on it that can stop it being abused and everyone knows how good Goons are at thinking outside the box to abuse game mechanics. It would make more sense to me for example to just allow the corp to set a flat tax rate that takes away what ever percentage that corp decides from the overall corp contract reward and to distribute the rest of the funds evenly between those who took part in the battle. For me doing it in it's currently way i'd just get Mittens or someone to set up a contract for a few billion isk, once its in the corp wallet i can transfer it myself right away and that will be abused.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 02:35:00 - [8] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I'm a FPS player first and an EVE player second, don't just stereotype and assume that we're "zerging" like the other uninformed idiots out there. I like you're CEO, he's a good bloke and he knows what he's doing in a lot of things that i've seen thus far and have a lot of respect for your corp, don't sour it by being a ** and trying to stereotype us when we don't do that to you and just assume you're another stupid MAG clan. If you'd like to have an intelligent discussion about the FPS side of things and how it will interact with EVE and how EVE ISK will still have an impact on Dust, even with things like player limits etc i'd be more than happy to have that discussion with you, but again, make it an intelligent discussion rather than just trying to sound like a macho . The point of this thread was to show how much money some EVE players can throw away and start a discussion on it, we're by no means the only rich people in the game and if you want contracts from us, you should at least take the time to talk to us like people and not children. Sometimes the point of a thread is just to show of something cool and funny and that loss mail is something we laugh about and i'd like to share with my fellow Dusters, is that such a bad thing?... But it also allows people to see why Dust is going to be important to EVE as a huge ISK sink to stop people throwing away massive volumes of ISK like that on a single ship. There's lots of reasons to share it and that can be discussed from it, why should i pick the specific topic of discussion? I decided to share something cool and funny. Why don't you choose to discuss something and add something to the thread? Reg, i'd personally sponsor you for *** and giggles and i'm worth several billion more each passing week. Man, why are you consistently disrespecting MAG clans? "....assume you're just another stupid MAG clan" Some of the best corps/players in the beta are from MAG. And to be honest, what would this beta be if it weren't for MAG clans? I was stereotyping for dramatic effect, if you check my post history, while quite large, you'll see i've actually backed up mag players from time to time, except when they are being dicks and stereotyping about EVE players. I like the MAG community and i've made many friends in Dust that are ex MAG players, it's the elitism i have an issue with, not the game of the player base. It will be the same when the came is released and we get the BF and COD players here except what you'll see then is the current (EVE/MAG) players siding together against to COD/BF players. It's a normal part of community integration but if you can honestly find something from me specifically targetting a MAG player who's not going off on one about someone just because they play EVE i'll admit to it happily as a mistake and apologise for it but i assure you, you're very, very wrong.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 02:39:00 - [9] - Quote Apu-Punchau wrote: Can I raise a practical question at this point? Are we gonna do "Stonehenge" tomorrow? Also, why would having EVE players dump ISK into DUST be bad? I already have more ISK in DUST than I can spend, personally. I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a Rifter today. I've got several million in the bank in Dust myself, i've got more ISK than i can use and that's without taking part in the ISK FEST event they held a few weeks ago. Long term, economically, it's going to ** both economies up if they don't deal with it right and it could mean the end of one or both games, that's the biggest issue i personally have with it. I've chatted with some of the major "jewbal" members in goonwaffe about this and we're in agreement that it could end very, very badly. Think of it this way, people from EVE transfer isk to Dust, select Dust players will have huge volumes of ISK to burn and that will give them a significant equipment advantage over new players.. New players get sick of being slaughtered all by the time by the advantage EVE players have and eventually leave. No new players means Dust will fail and if Dust fails its perfectly possible that CCP will fail and go under considering the size of the investment they've placed in Dust to make sure it works, if they ** up it could destroy the company, Dust and EVE and that's why it's important it's done correctly.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 02:56:00 - [10] - Quote ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: At first, I didn't really "like" this thread. After reading everything, it brings up a serious...question(?) that I find extremely interesting. +1 my good man. Not to the original post, to the posts by the original poster and the ones I find giving meaning/clarification to the original post. I'd write more things about posts, but i'm running out of ways to fill this post up with the word "post". POST EDIT: This post had a silly error, writing "right" instead of "write", nothing serious. I just like my posts to be the best posts the can be. I like this post. The OP was meant to just stirr things up a little, i may start a real economic thread tomorrow but it's 3am here and i really should be in the bed, the Mrs want's to go shopping in the morning. :effort: I'll be about on IRC at some point now i'm back into Dust after my break, i'm very rusty though, GLOO GLOO kicked my arse earlier a lot more than he did a month and half ago. I've got very, very deep and serious concerns about the economics of these games and the implications they could have on the future but it's hard to speculate with so little information on what's planned too. Is CCP_Nuthin still kicking around? As for Podside, that wouldn't happen in a billion years, ZionShad is very Anti-Goon and as such wouldn't do much to try and help me out. lol.

Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 03:25:00 - [11] - Quote ISK will always play a part in battles, maybe not in the short term but certainly over longer, more drawn out conflicts, look at the 2 great wars in EVE, they both lasted for a couple of years when you combine the time and must have cost trillions of ISK and that's going to be a massive factor in Dust when a Corp with rich EVE backing and no skills can constantly take on the top KD/R corps and simply win by them being broke and not being able to either afford the contracts or having to grind ISK elsewhere so they can afford contracts which would mean they spend less time defending districts. ISK's always going to be a major part of any prolonged type of engagement, it may not be a massive factor in the smaller scale stuff like we're seeing now but it will be the main driving force behind the game in the future.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:13:00 - [12] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: New players get sick of being slaughtered all by the time by the advantage VETERAN players have and eventually leave. I substituted VETERAN for EVE for a better fit. IMO it doesn't matter if you're an EVE player, but it does matter if you're a veteran player. You will have information those coming into the DUST game won't. It's not as big a learning cliff as EVE but for FPS players it's close. But let's say that EVE players come in with trillions of isk and others come in with millions. Won't matter. As DUST mercs we support ourselves as is through public games, this won't change regardless of EVE involvement. So even scrubs like us can make enough/give enough to corp to keep everyone in the best suits/vehicles. My point... ISK will matter a little bit, but not more than skill at shooting people. Shooting people makes isk, if you dont have skill at killing and have tons of isk, who cares. Some of what you say i can agree with, but believe me, ISK will have much more of an impact on this game than people can even imagine right now. Non of you guys has ever had to deal with a fully player driven market before like EVE has and it's a really big game changer.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:15:00 - [13] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Cygnus Gogela wrote: Hay... fair warning to anyone reading this thread: LOTS or INDIVIDUALS have far more ISK than that in EvE. The Goons will rob you blind if you give them the chance though. They will take everything they can get from you and leave you high and dry. That's just how they roll. Google them before you apply to join them is all I'm saying. If you don't know what the SomethingAweful forums are, you are not able to join the goons at all. You've been warned. /troll/ SomethingAweful? Is that like 4chan? /endtroll/ SomethingAwful is where the guys behind 4Chan came from, if you do your homework you'll see that 4Chan is run my old members of SA who happened to be banned from the community for various reasons, like acting as children and enjoying child ****. Ir's also worth mentioning that being a member of SA alone will not get you in Goonwaffe or Immobile Infantry, we've strict regulations on even our own members to prevent spais getting in.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 14:19:00 - [14] - Quote G-SLicK wrote: i dont know if this could work and i havnt finished reading everything in this thread, but couldnt ccp just raise in-game isk in dust (isk gained from rewards/prices on weaps and everything) to make dust seem like an isk sink for eve? It can't be seen as an isk sink or EVE players won't invest in Dust, they need to get something out of Dust for them to make the financial investment for a start, raising the ISK rewards on things wouldn't make much difference either because that would create what we call a larger "ISK Faucet" it's just another source of ISK coming into the economy from nowhere and adding more ISK the economy which is compounding the problem and making it worse. It has to play driven and it has to be expensive for things to work but it also has to have a reason for EVE players to make the jump without the price being so steep that they ignore it totally.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.02 18:26:00 - [15] - Quote Friendly Woodsman wrote: Something can be an ISK sink and still provide a nice income for the people involved. Just look at Faction Warfare. For the economy as a whole, Faction Warfare is considered an ISK sink (I don't have the articles to link to for stats, sorry) largely because players trade ISK and Loyalty Points for faction items which have to made out of other items purchased from the market. The pilots in Faction Warfare make a killing selling these valuable items, but because they had to pump resources into the NPC factions to get those goodies, the market as a whole loses those resources for good. AFAIK we don't really know how the goodies in DUST are going to be produced, but if any part of the production chain includes giving ISK to an NPC faction, then it's going to be a sink, even if there are individuals making billions. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am also a little worried about the wealth balance, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it will be quite so apocalyptic. There will be the occasional obvious imbalance in forces, but that already happens in sov war. As far as a return on investment for EVE players, how about sovereignty? If DUST districts become an integral part of holding sov, EVE players will have plenty of reasons to be involved. FW as an ISK sink? Yeah, technically it is but just look at the total ******* hash that CCP made of FW and how it was abused to get people billions and billions of ISK by just flying around a beacon and not even playing the game. Yeah, nice job there.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.03 04:37:00 - [16] - Quote Argo Filch wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: FW as an ISK sink? Yeah, technically it is but just look at the total ******* hash that CCP made of FW and how it was abused to get people billions and billions of ISK by just flying around a beacon and not even playing the game. Yeah, nice job there. FW is an isk sink. Because those billions of isk you're talking about are in assets lying around in peoples hangars that had to be bought with isk one way or another. Those isk are gone. These people get rich in isk on their wallet after they sell that stuff to other people for isk. And those isk come from other players wallets. The only thing that happend is that a few people get isk from many other people that created that isk via other means like ratting or mission running. But FW doesn't create isk. And that those people got them LP for orbiting buttons with prop fitted frigs (I like how the iPhones autocorrect wanted to make that frogs ;) doesn't even mater. Isk was sunk. Farmers got their money from other players. You're missing my point, i'm well aware of the mechanics of FW and how it works as an ISK sink technically though what i'm saying is that it's a very, very poor comparison for something like Dust based how CCP messed up the FW mechanics, can you imagine if they did that to Dust and what it would do to the community?!...