DUST Search - did the math on armor thicknesses and why tanks should be hard to take down.

Sytonis Auran wrote:

GIZMO2606 wrote:

AV Grenade, the upper tier ones are good against a poor built armor tank. Tried it out on some randoms tanks and they work best on armor only. They can work good on poor fitted shield tanks but that is only if they stay still long enough.

Flux Grenade, These are nice but they lack actual damage so unless you have something that hits heavy fast like a swarm launcher or Mass Driver or a teammate waiting with one of those it isn't worth the time. Spent a nice chuck of ISK getting the Prototype version of these and they are not really worth it.

Mass Driver, A fun weapon but tank wise, not the best to bring in a battle due to the fact that even my Passive shield tank can take a whole squad of Mass Drivers and I can pick them off just as fast as they can shoot me with my railgun or a blaster.

Remote Explosives, I can't begin to say how much I love these but they are not that good on shield tanks. I've gotten a few armor tank kills though with them and same with the Proximity Explosives. Shield tanks though, not so good unless the shield tank is a poor fit.

Gotta keep in mind, poor fitted tanks are easy to take out with these but well fitted tanks not so much and those well fitted tanks normally have good pilots in them so it makes using the closer ranged weapons harder and you have to depend more on the hard hitting weapons and those main hard hitters are Forge Guns for Shields, Swarm Launchers for Armor, Blaster Turret for Armor and Railgun for both. A lot of this is also done by number crunching also. You have to apply the best out come of what the best tank could be to get the best full on effect of the weapons.

Sounding like your writing from the point of view of soloing tanks with these items?


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.26 11:49:00 - [1] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: not a lot of AV weapons and CCP is gonna add in a good selection of vehicles though? Not a lot of AV options? Swarm Launcher, Forge Gun, Laser Rifle, AV Grenade, Flux Grenade, Mass Driver, Remote Explosives, Proximity Explosives. All are viable AV options - some require the right combination of gear to be viable, or need you to coordinate with a teammate or two, but all of the listed weapons are effective against vehicles when used properly. Quote: Also, a good fitted team can keep a tank alive, hell thanks to someone spending a few hours, we have an invincible tank now. Yeah it leaves our squad down by 2 members but not even a forge dealing at least 8000 would be enough to touch it. A tank with good infantry support is invincible against a Forge Gun going solo. I don't see the problem. You CAN'T make your tank invulnerable AND keep it effective against good AV unless it's supported by good infantry to keep the enemy AV out of the picture.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.26 12:20:00 - [2] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: Sorry for the double post. What I really mean by lack of AV, the main damage dealing weapon against shield tanks is the forge and that is limited to the heavy only. Laser Rifle is nice but it has more limits than the forge gun. Mean the damage takes time to build up and if it over heats you die also. Laser Rifle has more limits, but also some advantages to balance it out. I've seen a couple of Scouts with Laser Rifles carve a Gunnlogi open then finish the job with AV grenades. Mobility was the core tool they had that a Heavy doesn't. And you're ignoring the entire rest of the collection of weapon options by fixating on a single good option that's not as effective as something with a different set of drawbacks and restrictions on its use. There are multiple AV weapons that are more effective against shields, and multiple weapons that are effective against armour.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.27 15:50:00 - [3] - Quote Sytonis Auran wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: AV Grenade, the upper tier ones are good against a poor built armor tank. Tried it out on some randoms tanks and they work best on armor only. They can work good on poor fitted shield tanks but that is only if they stay still long enough. Flux Grenade, These are nice but they lack actual damage so unless you have something that hits heavy fast like a swarm launcher or Mass Driver or a teammate waiting with one of those it isn't worth the time. Spent a nice chuck of ISK getting the Prototype version of these and they are not really worth it. Mass Driver, A fun weapon but tank wise, not the best to bring in a battle due to the fact that even my Passive shield tank can take a whole squad of Mass Drivers and I can pick them off just as fast as they can shoot me with my railgun or a blaster. Remote Explosives, I can't begin to say how much I love these but they are not that good on shield tanks. I've gotten a few armor tank kills though with them and same with the Proximity Explosives. Shield tanks though, not so good unless the shield tank is a poor fit. Gotta keep in mind, poor fitted tanks are easy to take out with these but well fitted tanks not so much and those well fitted tanks normally have good pilots in them so it makes using the closer ranged weapons harder and you have to depend more on the hard hitting weapons and those main hard hitters are Forge Guns for Shields, Swarm Launchers for Armor, Blaster Turret for Armor and Railgun for both. A lot of this is also done by number crunching also. You have to apply the best out come of what the best tank could be to get the best full on effect of the weapons. Sounding like your writing from the point of view of soloing tanks with these items? That's how I'm reading it too. There aren't ANY options for infantry running AV that work as a single item on its own without support from another AV tool or from teamwork. Except Forge Guns, and even then, only on weaker HAVs. You'll notice the example where 2 Scouts tore a Gunnlogi open involved both shield-focused AND armour-focused options being used, NOT one weapon type exclusively being relied on. I've had my own passive shield tank pretty heavily beaten up by Flux grenades, and when they were paired with a Mass Driver, I'd call it a credible threat. Flux/Swarm is even worse, but leaves the player with less anti-personnel options. Pair Laser Rifles with AV Grenades, and see how fast the enemy tanks run from you - or how fast they die if they don't. And with REs, have someone rip into the shields with a Forge Gun, then when the tank runs, set off the REs you set up on its line of retreat. Or, as with all the other options, rip the shields open FIRST, then use the REs as what they're meant for - anti-armour.