DUST Search - did the math on armor thicknesses and why tanks should be hard to take down.

Mavado V Noriega wrote:

GIZMO2606 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I love playing with my tank from time to time but last thing they need is a buff since right now, not may players wanna play AV. If they make more AV type weapons for players to use than maybe buff the tanks till then tanks are okay I guess. Most players that are crying saying tanks need a buff ether used missiles and can't aim since they have been so over nerfed or players who depend on vehicles and have a lack of gun game. Vehicles should be used sparingly, not all the time in pub games and I really hope it's like that in the finally release. They are meant to be high priced items that should only be used from time to time. Not all the time. I mean do you see players bring out Titans all the time in EVE and not worrying if one gets blown up?

not everyone , infact ill go out on a limb and say MOST of the corps/ppl that play this game wont ever be involved in FW or nullsec so vehicles also need to be priced so that they actually can use what they skilled into or the casuals wont find it very interesting if they unlock their new toy and never able to use it

comparing a titan price to HAV as well is a very bad comparision

if ppl dont want to skill into AV thats their problem tbqh
what CCP actually needs to do is drastically increase the ISK and WP rewards for taking out vehicles imo
alot of effort being put in place to take out these vehicles and heavies dont even make a profit if they die a couple times same with a tanker should he **** a tank or 2 and lose his he still loses ISK


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GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.26 08:57:00 - [1] - Quote Don't get me wrong, I love playing with my tank from time to time but last thing they need is a buff since right now, not may players wanna play AV. If they make more AV type weapons for players to use than maybe buff the tanks till then tanks are okay I guess. Most players that are crying saying tanks need a buff ether used missiles and can't aim since they have been so over nerfed or players who depend on vehicles and have a lack of gun game. Vehicles should be used sparingly, not all the time in pub games and I really hope it's like that in the finally release. They are meant to be high priced items that should only be used from time to time. Not all the time. I mean do you see players bring out Titans all the time in EVE and not worrying if one gets blown up?
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.26 11:18:00 - [2] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Don't get me wrong, I love playing with my tank from time to time but last thing they need is a buff since right now, not may players wanna play AV. If they make more AV type weapons for players to use than maybe buff the tanks till then tanks are okay I guess. Most players that are crying saying tanks need a buff ether used missiles and can't aim since they have been so over nerfed or players who depend on vehicles and have a lack of gun game. Vehicles should be used sparingly, not all the time in pub games and I really hope it's like that in the finally release. They are meant to be high priced items that should only be used from time to time. Not all the time. I mean do you see players bring out Titans all the time in EVE and not worrying if one gets blown up? not everyone , infact ill go out on a limb and say MOST of the corps/ppl that play this game wont ever be involved in FW or nullsec so vehicles also need to be priced so that they actually can use what they skilled into or the casuals wont find it very interesting if they unlock their new toy and never able to use it comparing a titan price to HAV as well is a very bad comparision if ppl dont want to skill into AV thats their problem tbqh what CCP actually needs to do is drastically increase the ISK and WP rewards for taking out vehicles imo alot of effort being put in place to take out these vehicles and heavies dont even make a profit if they die a couple times same with a tanker should he ** a tank or 2 and lose his he still loses ISK So, the tryhards that pad there stats, the ones that would pull a top tier tanks out in a pub match against new players is a great way to test them out? Because it is gonna happen and it is gonna be one of the things that will drive new players away. Reason I compared a Titan to a tank is simply this reason, In EVE you can make tons of ISK to a matter of hours where on Dust you're gonna have to spend days just to make 1/4th of the ISK you could ever make on EVE. Secondly, Tanks that are fitted right are the most costly thing on Dust right now as are Titan the most costly (Not just ISK wise but time wise) on EVE. Unless there is something else you think that you have to spend the most time and money on Dust making please share. Lastly, it isn't the players problem alone. The heavy is a **** class since speed plays a huge role in AV. If you can't move fast enough to a target to take it, than why play it? It is also CCP's fault for making a EMP type weapon that is a heavy hitter a heavy only weapon. In fact, there are all these nice Anti infantry weapons yet not a lot of AV weapons and CCP is gonna add in a good selection of vehicles though? Also, a good fitted team can keep a tank alive, hell thanks to someone spending a few hours, we have an invincible tank now. Yeah it leaves our squad down by 2 members but not even a forge dealing at least 8000 would be enough to touch it. You should know this yourself, team work is the key. A lot of players don't fully look at the skills and take as much time as others to figure out what works best with one another and what makes other become fully unstoppable. If those players spent about hours just figuring out what is the best skill that works with what than you would be able to make fits that are godlike in a way. Instead you have tanks trying to boost up shield/armor or players worrying about top tier gear and boosting the over damage. Pretty much 80% of the players in the game (Please keep in mind, with that game 80% is a lot more than what most people think since less and less players stop playing each hour) use the same build that they have ether stolen from another player or asked someone to give them that build. If they would take a moment to think outside of the box than they would see that things that don't make sense in this game make a lot of sense actually if paired up with the right players and gear. Honestly, a vast amount of this game is based around MMO Role Playing Game (Yes like WoW, Guild Wars, Final Fantasy 11/14 Diablo and so on) logic, if you've never played one of those than you limit yourself to a sand box build. Those that have played those or understand the logic of them open there builds up in a whole new way. Anyways, back on topic, Personally, vehicles don't need a buff, learn to build a tank and get with someone that can help add on to that build with there build. It triples the power that you already have.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.26 12:01:00 - [3] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: not a lot of AV weapons and CCP is gonna add in a good selection of vehicles though? Not a lot of AV options? Swarm Launcher, Forge Gun, Laser Rifle, AV Grenade, Flux Grenade, Mass Driver, Remote Explosives, Proximity Explosives. All are viable AV options - some require the right combination of gear to be viable, or need you to coordinate with a teammate or two, but all of the listed weapons are effective against vehicles when used properly. Quote: Also, a good fitted team can keep a tank alive, hell thanks to someone spending a few hours, we have an invincible tank now. Yeah it leaves our squad down by 2 members but not even a forge dealing at least 8000 would be enough to touch it. A tank with good infantry support is invincible against a Forge Gun going solo. I don't see the problem. You CAN'T make your tank invulnerable AND keep it effective against good AV unless it's supported by good infantry to keep the enemy AV out of the picture. I have both low tier armor and shield tanks and both of them can take a long beating from prototype weapons (My shield tank alone can take 5 - 6 shots from prototype forge gun) and my armor tank can eat swarms and forges like crazy. I don't know how many forges my friends tank can take on because seeing good actual forge gun players is a rare sight on here. Even though you have a forge gun, that doesn't mean that you have it built right. That takes time, ISK and a lot of SP to top it. Building a good forge gun build takes a lot of SP/ISK. Right now as it stands, my AV build is up in the 6 million range of SP and I'm not close to being done with it. Next to vehicles being costly in SP and ISK, being a good AV play would be the second highest. I myself would love to go head to head with my friends tank to see how much my AV it can tank.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.26 12:05:00 - [4] - Quote Sorry for the double post. What I really mean by lack of AV, the main damage dealing weapon against shield tanks is the forge and that is limited to the heavy only. Laser Rifle is nice but it has more limits than the forge gun. Mean the damage takes time to build up and if it over heats you die also.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.11.26 12:33:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Sorry for the double post. What I really mean by lack of AV, the main damage dealing weapon against shield tanks is the forge and that is limited to the heavy only. Laser Rifle is nice but it has more limits than the forge gun. Mean the damage takes time to build up and if it over heats you die also. Laser Rifle has more limits, but also some advantages to balance it out. I've seen a couple of Scouts with Laser Rifles carve a Gunnlogi open then finish the job with AV grenades. Mobility was the core tool they had that a Heavy doesn't. And you're ignoring the entire rest of the collection of weapon options by fixating on a single good option that's not as effective as something with a different set of drawbacks and restrictions on its use. There are multiple AV weapons that are more effective against shields, and multiple weapons that are effective against armour. AV Grenade, the upper tier ones are good against a poor built armor tank. Tried it out on some randoms tanks and they work best on armor only. They can work good on poor fitted shield tanks but that is only if they stay still long enough. Flux Grenade, These are nice but they lack actual damage so unless you have something that hits heavy fast like a swarm launcher or Mass Driver or a teammate waiting with one of those it isn't worth the time. Spent a nice chuck of ISK getting the Prototype version of these and they are not really worth it. Mass Driver, A fun weapon but tank wise, not the best to bring in a battle due to the fact that even my Passive shield tank can take a whole squad of Mass Drivers and I can pick them off just as fast as they can shoot me with my railgun or a blaster. Remote Explosives, I can't begin to say how much I love these but they are not that good on shield tanks. I've gotten a few armor tank kills though with them and same with the Proximity Explosives. Shield tanks though, not so good unless the shield tank is a poor fit. Gotta keep in mind, poor fitted tanks are easy to take out with these but well fitted tanks not so much and those well fitted tanks normally have good pilots in them so it makes using the closer ranged weapons harder and you have to depend more on the hard hitting weapons and those main hard hitters are Forge Guns for Shields, Swarm Launchers for Armor, Blaster Turret for Armor and Railgun for both. A lot of this is also done by number crunching also. You have to apply the best out come of what the best tank could be to get the best full on effect of the weapons.