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Extra Credits: Counter-Play

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Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.11.24 18:53:00 - [1] - Quote http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play This video is probably something CCP should look at for Dust. Infact, CCP should talk a look at most of these guys' videos because they really know game design well. This video goes over how a mechanic in a game should have techniques for both the person using it and the person who it gets used on. One of the examples they use is sniping and it really fits for Dust 514. Sniping in Dust can be really fun and you can rack up some nice kills with it, but for the person getting sniped there are no real techniques to use to protect yourself or reattack the sniper. Now we don't need to be alerted to the person who is sniping us every time we get hit, but there should be something we can do to spot the sniper or even signal who the sniper is or where they are to our team mates. There are probably so many other aspects in this game that need Counter-play
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:12:00 - [2] - Quote Nice forge gun.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:15:00 - [3] - Quote TY. I wanted to get to that tank battle you had in the south but a few infantry distracted me.
exegr Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:17:00 - [4] - Quote Reimus Klinsman wrote: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play This video is probably something CCP should look at for Dust. Infact, CCP should talk a look at most of these guys' videos because they really know game design well. This video goes over how a mechanic in a game should have techniques for both the person using it and the person who it gets used on. One of the examples they use is sniping and it really fits for Dust 514. Sniping in Dust can be really fun and you can rack up some nice kills with it, but for the person getting sniped there are no real techniques to use to protect yourself or reattack the sniper. Now we don't need to be alerted to the person who is sniping us every time we get hit, but there should be something we can do to spot the sniper or even signal who the sniper is or where they are to our team mates. There are probably so many other aspects in this game that need Counter-play Video is sound. However your sniping example is not and this is what i will attack below. Is it really so difficult to look on the hill and spot the sniper? If he has a direct LOS to you, so do YOU to him. In addition, you get a general direction of where someone shot you to help you with the above (apparently difficult) task. Or you want mommy to hold your hand every single step? Do you want a game like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtryBd6dKqY Where it tells you what to do EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. ?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:36:00 - [5] - Quote Good video- it also helped me figure out after soooo long how artillery can work in dust. Have an LAV (or a scout) somehow spotting for them.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:36:00 - [6] - Quote ^ I agree with exegr. The directional damage indicator plus the chevron or silhouette of the sniper is more than enough information as to their whereabouts. If the sniper is smart enough to duck below cover in between shots and move location then they should be rewarded for that. An indicator that tells us where we're being sniped from is way too handholdy for me. Case in point: the goofy red and blue grenade indicators. Sheesh. CCP might as well hand out a box of crayons with the game.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.11.24 19:43:00 - [7] - Quote Im not suggesting that the positions of snipers are given out, I just think that there should be something someone can do to counter snipers (aside from just taking cover). For example there could be a module that you fit that could protect you from one single shot of a sniper and it could trace the location of the sniper for a moment. That way you could slightly counter the sniper. Besides, what Im thinking is that there are plenty of other aspects of the game that could use the counter-play
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.24 20:07:00 - [8] - Quote Have someone in an LAV with an active scanner fitted driving around the popular sniper havens (the cheapest active scanner is extremely cheap. Only 2000 ISK or so)
Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.11.24 21:01:00 - [9] - Quote It would be nice to be able to mark certain players, so that they show up not just on the overhead map. It would also be nice to have a way to counter snipers, or flush them out of hiding with an AOE attack. Pikemen vs Horsemen vs Infantry sort of thing.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.24 21:10:00 - [10] - Quote Abner Kalen wrote: It would be nice to be able to mark certain players, so that they show up not just on the overhead map. It would also be nice to have a way to counter snipers, or flush them out of hiding with an AOE attack. Pikemen vs Horsemen vs Infantry sort of thing. Only solution: NUKE IT FROM ORBIT! Screw collateral damage! I have a feeling that as soon as we can call in orbital strikes, or use bombers, friendly fire will be turned on to make us consider when more "precise" attacks (precision strikes) are needed.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.24 22:05:00 - [11] - Quote exegr wrote: Is it really so difficult to look on the hill and spot the sniper? If he has a direct LOS to you, so do YOU to him. In addition, you get a general direction of where someone shot you to help you with the above (apparently difficult) task. Or you want mommy to hold your hand every single step? You're assuming the sniper is out in the open on top of a hill. A lot of snipers will not be on top, and will be mostly obscured from view by the terrain with only their head visible. You also need to realize that you have a good chance of dying in the next couple seconds if you don't break line-of-sight with the sniper who shot you once already. So yeah, it can be difficult. Sniping isn't fun for the people being sniped, there is indeed essentially no counter even if you can spot the sniper, and for the sniper himself it's a turkey shoot. You simply put the dot over the target and push the trigger. Easiest sniping I've ever seen. It needs to be fixed, and word is a fix is coming, but anyway, acting as if the way it works is fine and people who disagree are just sissies is ridiculous.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.25 01:45:00 - [12] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: An indicator that tells us where we're being sniped from is way too handholdy for me. Case in point: the goofy red and blue grenade indicators. Sheesh. CCP might as well hand out a box of crayons with the game. It's actually pretty easy to throw grenades in situations where the target won't see them, or know where they've gone. I do it pretty regularly. Also, knowing that grenades CAN be seen easily can make them a good area denial weapon. Not many players will run to a point that a grenade is going, so that means you know one location the enemy ISN'T and can afford to expose yourself to that position for a few seconds. But the sniper example is still pretty terrible. Unless it's an epic amazing sniper of awesome, fast erratic movement can make you a near-impossible target even for a bodyshot. Unless you're a Heavy (in which case, you can just tank it and return fire anyway), you can manage that easily enough. I rarely die to snipers, because I never stand out in the open.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 108	Posted - 2012.11.25 02:59:00 - [13] - Quote I feel really smart after watching that. Was a good video.


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