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Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2012.11.23 16:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I have been piloting since June (E3) and seen many builds of dropships. Below is my feedback.
==Flight Training==
In the early builds, flight was extremely easy that anyone could fly. With the fly mechanics update, flying became a dedicated pilots only vehicle. While I easily adapted to the updated, I have seen many a new pilot abandoning it before they could truely understand how to fly it.
I would suggest introducing a free militia training ship that has no turrets. Make it cost some tiny amount like 5k isk and give it a naturally high shielding and armor and low enough cpu/pg that a cru can not be fit on it. This would allow for proper flight training. I would easily buy ships for my new corp mates and call them in for them to learn how to fly. A limit on how many of these could be called in during a game would also be proper as I can already foresee an abuse of such a thing.
==War Points==
Dropships have been highly neglected in this aspect. Since the beginning, DS had to be gunships to gain any skills, kill assists are our only form of skill gain. I am sure you are working on this category but we obviously need assist points for on-board spawning, assist on soldier drop offs that hack something within xx time frame, etc.
==Turrets==
Again, since the first builds, small missiles have been the only viable method for DS because they were the only ones that lead to the most kills. With the recent nerf to small missile radius ( I agree they needed a dmg balance btw), being a pilot became even harder to gain SP. Lucky for me I am already near maxed out on all things that I need to be the top of the line ship.
I have attempted to fly other turrets like the blasters/rail guns but they simply do not work. Have you tried to run blasters? even holding it almost dead steady over an enemy with a gunner blasting away at them, even within range they can not kill them. Blasters should be short ranged for support but should be deadly at close range and when leveled up.
It seems that DS turrets need their own class of turrets so you can adjust them separate from ground vehicles. The mechanics are just not the same.
==Reaction to Swarms==
There are already dozens of threads covering this so thus its pretty obvious. No reaction felt odd at the beginning and now it feels like your a feather when hit. No matter if you got 2 additional armors and are gallente, the reaction is the same. A couple militia swarms that hit your ship at a certain angle can flip you upside down.
For someone like be that runs all high end gear and to lose a full health ship to some militia knock around can be very frustrating, about as frustrating as swarms not hitting a ship flying in circles but that's for SL threads to discuss.
If there were ways to recover or skills that stabilize or counter this, I would greatly appreciate it.
==Forge Gun Hit Detection==
I often lose ships to proto forge guns. I am fine that they can do massive damage and hit me long range but most the time there is no way to determine where they are at. A simple blimp or something on the radar for a second would help. Our camera angles do not allow us to see where things are coming from and these are futuristic ships right? I use the radar a lot to determine where enemies are and where to fly to. A massive forge gun on the ground sound not be so invisible, the trail last for too short of time. A balance of hit detection is suggested.
==Collision with Airborne Objects==
This is not something that happens often but it usually kills your ship. I have only had it happen once but an installation falling from the sky has instantly killed my ship.
I have had times when an enemy ship with way lower ship aka milita has rammed my ship just to kill me. It seems that shields and armor are not being taken into effect when ships in the air collide. If true, the mechanics should be looked into for such cases.
Delivery vehicle collision can usually be deadly as well. While I am often good about avoiding them, there are times when the delivery vehicle just materializes out of not where and either seriously damages you or kills or your ship by bumping you. A warning of 5 seconds on the radar for friendly delivery vehicles would be a step in the right direction.
==Overall Satisfaction==
So far I have found piloting very satisfying; however, last several builds, focused on nerfing tanks have hurt dropships far more.
I feel that a balance needs brought back to ships. For a true balancing though, I feel that everything related to ships must be separated from other vehicle types. If you want ships to be support roles, then show us the rewards for supporting our team.
Thanks,
Brush Master,
Dropship Commander,
Havok Core |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2012.11.23 17:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just out of curiosity, have you ever experimented with a pair of experienced railgun users on a dropship?
From what I've done with them on an LAV, any vehicle that isn't as tough as, or tougher than a standard HAV would be blown up. |
Kharga Lum
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2012.11.23 19:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Very thorough review. I agree with all of your points except the forge gun. They are slow and glow brightly when charging their gun. This is hinderance enough for them since forge gunners are easy pickings for assault troops. Having an indicator show exactly where they are would mean the DS pilot could tell ground forces. The proto forge gun should be strong but as strong as it is, i'm not sure.
Rail guns on DS are great against other vehicles but very hard to use against infantry. The direct damage from a rail gun is equal to or higher (depending on the rail) to the missiles with even smaller blast radius. With the cool down and charge time on the rail the missile will out shoot you. Since rail damage is not instant you have to track your target in 3 dimensional space which is can be trick enough. I wouldn't expect my gunner to hit anything other then a vehicle with one. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2012.11.23 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes I have run rail guns with experienced gunners. They described them as "pretty blue lights" lol. The obviously stand no chance of hitting troops which they are not ment to kill but versus even installations were very under powered. They seemed to shoot at a decent speed but the damage in comparison to missile is still under par. To be fair I was running adv rails to proto missile but even at prot level, why run rail gun when missile do about the same damage and at least stand a chance at killing troops. Another thing to note is they easily overheat and was a major complaint by my gunners. FYI to CCP, the overheat stays with the gunner and not the gun itself, my one gunner noticed that when he was switching between guns thinking the overheat would stay with the gun, it does not.
I would have to do some more testing on distance but I believe they are pretty close to the same distance. On a fly by my gunners could hit an installations 2-3 times but it was never enough to kill it. The mechanics are vastly different then lavs. Turrets on an lav are much steadier. At this point a dropship is lucky to be able to hover over a target. A the first sign of a swarm, you really have to move, not because of the damage but because you have to hover close enough to hit a target, meaning the knockback of swarms alone can crash your ship into the ground or nearby objects.
Basically all my gunners agreed that blaster and rails need to be adjusted for ships if CCP wants to see them used on a DS. Since I am pretty much maxed out I will level it up to proto for blast/rail and against the complaints of my gunners, will try to do some more testing for CCP. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2012.11.23 19:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kharga Lum wrote:Very thorough review. I agree with all of your points except the forge gun. They are slow and glow brightly when charging their gun. This is hinderance enough for them since forge gunners are easy pickings for assault troops. Having an indicator show exactly where they are would mean the DS pilot could tell ground forces. The proto forge gun should be strong but as strong as it is, i'm not sure.
Rail guns on DS are great against other vehicles but very hard to use against infantry. The direct damage from a rail gun is equal to or higher (depending on the rail) to the missiles with even smaller blast radius. With the cool down and charge time on the rail the missile will out shoot you. Since rail damage is not instant you have to track your target in 3 dimensional space which is can be trick enough. I wouldn't expect my gunner to hit anything other then a vehicle with one.
Having run a proto forge gun on my others character, aka this my best way to learn how to avoid them. I found that taking down dropships and tanks to be fairly easy as long as I had troops on the ground to keep away the geks and high level troops. With the recent nerf to missiles, DS have to depend on ground troops to stand a chance against high level forges which is fine. Seeing a charging forge on the ground is useless. If I am close enough to see it, I would most likely be dead before I could escape, it is not bright or apparent enough when flying high in the sky. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.11.23 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Some warning of a charging forge gun would be nice. As stated, those things glow brightly on the ground, so they must be emitting a great deal of detectable energy. Perhaps a particular type of scan module. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2012.11.23 20:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Some warning of a charging forge gun would be nice. As stated, those things glow brightly on the ground, so they must be emitting a great deal of detectable energy. Perhaps a particular type of scan module.
Something as simple as the red dot blinking (aka emitting high amounts of energy) when a forge is charging or holding a charge makes sense. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core
163
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Posted - 2012.11.25 16:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Even further testing and seeing feedback on other DS, missiles are still the only viable option for on a DS.  I am now getting 3x kills at a lower cost running a high end LAV. Waiting on you CCP to balance r out. |
Gunner Needed
The Southern Legion
111
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Posted - 2012.11.26 12:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Brush Master wrote:Even further testing and seeing feedback on other DS, missiles are still the only viable option for on a DS. I am now getting 3x kills at a lower cost running a high end LAV. Waiting on you CCP to balance r out.
Definately. As bad as missles are, they are still the best choice by far.
Gunners simply cannot maintain fire on a moving enemy long enough to be effective. |
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nakamakazi
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good. Dropships are not supposed to be gunships. Those will come out later. Dropships primary purpose should be a mobile spawn beacon that can drop suits off at capture points then run off, while having minimal fire support capacity.
Should be decent sp rewards for this, but in all honesty end game play won't be about the sp rewards, it will be about capturing a planet and making bank and tons of isk. So...your sp rewards won't really matter in high end play later on. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 19:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
nakamakazi wrote:Good. Dropships are not supposed to be gunships. Those will come out later. Dropships primary purpose should be a mobile spawn beacon that can drop suits off at capture points then run off, while having minimal fire support capacity.
Should be decent sp rewards for this, but in all honesty end game play won't be about the sp rewards, it will be about capturing a planet and making bank and tons of isk. So...your sp rewards won't really matter in high end play later on.
That's why I've been pushing for larger organized squads far more than WPs (not that we couldn't use those too). An organized squad is the dropship's main weapon, and right now it is limited to a mere three team members plus the pilot. Just not enough to be effective. |
BestNameEva
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
86
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 01:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
nakamakazi wrote:Good. Dropships are not supposed to be gunships. Those will come out later. Dropships primary purpose should be a mobile spawn beacon that can drop suits off at capture points then run off, while having minimal fire support capacity.
Should be decent sp rewards for this, but in all honesty end game play won't be about the sp rewards, it will be about capturing a planet and making bank and tons of isk. So...your sp rewards won't really matter in high end play later on.
just give back the missile range, its hard to transport people when a forge gun has 3 times the range. cant suppress properly. |
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