I suggested this in a thread before, but I suggested that each team's "red zone" area, where they're safe but the enemy can't travel, should be marked as a "blue zone". While in the blue (or yellow) zone, you're relatively safe, since enemies have to (mostly) keep their distance, but you're also unable to earn WPs OR kills. Obviously, you can still KILL from there, but the game doesn't count those kills, so you can't pad your K/D by redlining yourself.

People firing INTO this area should still be rewarded normally, because getting that close to the enemy's red zone should be a difficult task in the first place.

Was thinking about this after I'd posted, and realised that letting a team farm points from spawn-camping their opponents was a stupid suggestion.

But the reason I came up with it was because I didn't think it was any more fair to punish a team for winning. Still trying to come up with a way to balance out the two sides...

Honestly, i like the idea of force fielded area better. Some sort of installation that would be added around the starting CRU of every team. This installation would create a force field of say a 100m radius. No shots would enter\get out of this. Everything coming out of it couldnt get back in. No WP could be earned inside it (avoid exploit).

1) It would make very smaller "red zone" avoiding staying in a "safe" area and sniping\spamming the map
2) It would finally give a justification for those safe areas. At the moment, nothing explains this red zone and clones dying in it after a few seconds......
3) This force field installation would probably be an interesting player directed installation in the future.

And this part of your post gave me another idea.

Make the deployment zone into a deployment zone instead of part of the battlefield.

When you spawn in your deployment area/yellow zone, it's a yellow zone, in which your enemies get no kill credit or WP for killing you, and you get nothing for killing them. From the time you first spawn, there's a countdown timer that starts at 1:30. After spawning, you have a minute and a half before the deployment area becomes a redzone. At that point, you get the redone timer on top of the yellow zone timer, but once it becomes a redzone, you become a valid target, and so do enemies.

Why? Because the HighSec contract specifically instructs you to enter battle promptly. This fits as being the same reason for the otherwise totally arbitrary time limit that kicks you out of the battle for not spawning. You have to enter battle within a reasonable timeframe. That means you have to spawn quickly, AND it means you have to head for the designated battlefield after doing so.

I was meaning it for each individual on spawn, not as a map-wide timer at the beginning of the match. And that addresses ALL the questions, not just the second and third.

1. You don't deploy into a redzone. Just like you can't do that now. You deploy into a yellow zone. When you spawn there, EVERY time you spawn there, you get the yellow zone timer giving you a minute and a half before the redzone timer kicks in.

2. That would have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. On Manus Peak, for example, I think bringing the yellow zone further down the hill would help, so people have to come further forward before they're safe and able to collect WP and kills.

3. The yellow zone will be a safe area for about 2 minutes if you include the redzone timer, giving you time to see where the enemy is, what they're doing, and find a way around them.

Makes babysitting not only boring, but fruitless? No thank you. I'd prefer a slaughter rule and abandonment of the redline.

Slaughter rule and no redline would be great for Nullsec, and MAYBE LowSec, but not so good in HighSec.

A slaughter rule is where the mission ends when one side has obviously already lost. For Skirmish, this would mean that the mission would end if the other team held all the Null Cannons for a certain period, because that shows your team is being spawn-camped and can't break out. In Ambush, a similar mechanic could be introduced where your team will lose if they have a certain amount of consecutive deaths without any kills. Basically, this acts as a way to cut an obvious failure short and potentially save both sides a lot of money by allowing the losers to just run away when it becomes clear they can't win.

I don't argue that the current system is set up right, just that forcing people out of the redzone into certain death is wrong. You would basically be replacing one problem for another.

What would my solution to this issue be? Simple. Use your yellow line idea for the bases, as well as the loss of gain from farming redlined people in their bases and bases shooting out, however instead of forcing people out, make the MCC's move around the edges of the field. Whenever the MCC crosses over a base it fires on enemies who aren't in cover (obviously the base spawn points would have to be revamped to provide cover without allowing sniping out of the base to be too easy), when it crosses it's home base it fires on any enemies too near it, and if it gets too close to an enemy on the field, it fires on them. This last bit will prevent snipers and forge gunners from sitting on the edges of the map spamming death from the same spot all match. They will have to move around a lot more. Having the MCC's move around the map would also provide teams the ability to not spawn in a static location that can be easily camped and farmed. This would also make battles a lot more frantic and perhaps even more difficult for both sides since the "one side has an advantage on one side of the map" strategies would all go out the window.

Ah, a response at long last.

The weapons I was thinking for the MCCs were first a weak tracking, slower ROF blaster with more damage than a large blaster turret. Weak tracking so that if you keep moving quickly you are likely to avoid getting hit directly. I was thinking around 250-300hp per shot with half or a quarter the ROF of a breach AR. Overheats every 20 seconds, 12-15 second cooldown.

The second weapon would be like a large missile turret, but fire a larger volley less accurately and with a larger gap between volleys. Kind of sweeping a carpet of missiles randomly across a patch of ground. I'm thinking 12 or 15 missiles per volley with a 10 or 15 second down time.

Both teams would have to deal with the opposing team's MCC, so it gives no unfair advantage to anyone. The weapons are definitely formidable and something you want to avoid, but are not ungody death traps that are impossible to avoid

As for the actual movement speed of the whole ship, I would say a medium to fast walking speed. Tank top speed when moving at top speed.

As the MCC crosses over the opposing base it fires on any enemies out in the open. This adds incentive to people in the base to clear out before the enemy MCC draws too near. Put the spawn locations behind or under sufficient cover too keep the MCC from spawn killing people. If the enemy MCC is too close to your base, it would be safer to spawn on your own MCC, otherwise you wait until it passes and then leave your base.

When the allied MCC is near your base it fires on all enemies and enemy vehicles within a certain distance of your redline. If enough of the enemy nears your redline the MCC speeds up it's circuit around the field and slows near the allied base to provide cover fire so you can leave the base.

The MCC should also fire on any air vehicles that come within a certain range of it's cannons. This will help prevent any future "win button" turrets from camping people as they spawn in.

And that dear friend is how to end redlining.

What are you even talking about? "Micro gear"? "Macro game level"? These don't mean anything to me.

Anyway, there isn't anything to discuss here as this issue has been easily fixed in other games through differentiating non-enemy damage from enemy damage. Any issues you have with this solution are not really relevant, as they've clearly been addressed by other game systems, and thus you can just go and see what Planetside 2 or whatever did to solve the problem rather than broaching the issue here.

They said that having all weapons have calculated projectiles isn't possible. That's fine, I'm not suggesting assault rifles be non-hit scan. But you're obviously incorrect in saying that non-hit scan weapons aren't on the table, as that's exactly how the plasma cannon is going to work, how swarm launchers work currently, and so on. There are already weapons which are not hit scan.

I am not interested in discussing how railguns work in fictional settings and don't find it relevant to anything we've been discussing here. Nothing in Dust in real, so talking about how it does or doesn't work is moot.

but again changing snipers doesn't address the fundamental issue of this thread. If the redzone is the safest place to snip then snipers will use it regardless of how hard it is to be a sniper.
The point is not "snipers are too good from the redline" the point is "fighting from inside the redline imbalances the fundamental 'Risk vs Reward' mechanic" as such fighting inside the redline needs to go.

Overall the last line of my above paragraph is the point, fighting inside the redline needs to go and no amount of tweaks to other aspects of the game will address the fundamental damage to the Risk vs Reward mechanic.
As long as Mercs are able to use the redzone to amass WP/SP/ISK the problem will remain other changes will only alter the rate of gain, but if they're game wide that will result in a net effect of zero in regards to providing a redress for these problems. I also must question how thoroughly you've read the proposal because it would simply effect anyone within the Yellow Zone or targeting anything within the Yellow Zone. As such the range of the weapon being used it completely irrelevant to it's function.

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