DUST Search - My proposition to balance vehicles, turrets, and AV

Tiel Syysch wrote:

lDocHollidayl wrote:

Proxy mines need to matter...they are terrible.
Nice post.

Grenades as a whole are fine..kind of. You do not see a spam of grenades because they are not OP. They currently only do full damage at the center...when you are at the edge of the splash you do not receive the full damage. Maps are huge and hitting a guy with a nade is hard enough. Please do not nerf nades.

In fact fix grenades so that terrain does not create such barriers. Let us have grenades that blow up 3D not 2D.

I'm honestly not sure what the damage is on grenades thanks to their useless damage listed in the info window. Aren't they kinda broken right now as a result of "fixing" their staying around forever? If the proto ones are hitting in the realm of 2000 damage, though, then it needs to come down. For flux grenades, 1800 vs shields is quite a bit, since shields are generally lower than armor, and you're looking at a max shield tank only in the realm of 6-8k hp maybe, which is essentially 3-4 grenades at that point. 2k damage vs armor is pretty awful to be on the armor side of things, since right now max fit is in the 10-12k range.

@Berserker

Yeah things are expected to be balanced around corp battles and tournament play, otherwise things are made pretty pathetic there if they're balanced around pubs. I'm totally fine with infantry-only lobbies and some kind of restrictions on vehicles in pubs to preserve the fun aspect there, since instant battle should be more fair and fun than "let me solo rampage in my invinci-gear."

I'm fine with SP being rebalanced too, but it's never going to be a good balancing factor. It's pretty easy right now to get a functional tank, but it's a huge grind to fully max it out, but if you just increase the SP, the power discrepancy will still be there, I'm just going to get it later and then still be stronger.

As for LAVs, I'd love to see them take collision damage equal to the hp of a person they run over, I've seen that proposed before. That'll cut down on them being used to squish people, and make them less of a problem not being able to oneshot them with a forge. Or, we could just cut the starter LAV's hp to compensate, I'm totally fine with that being a garbage vehicle and dying near-instantly to anything.


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Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.17 19:40:00 - [1] - Quote @ Tiel : LOTS of info there to read through. Being 1/2 AV, i found what u wrote seems great EXCEPT for the 50% damage reduction to AV. Now i know you looked more toward tanks here (i think), and higher gameplay, but you need to figure pubs games as well into the balance factor. Ill take my game other day as an account, i solo'd a gungloggi myself w/ either 4-5 shots of my grimlock. In a pub since there is very little co-op b/t blueberries, reducing av damage would allow tanks more roaming ability, as ull require more av allowing enemy ar/hmg to run through them. In corp play this could work, but pub play would be greatly affected. Then u need to bring lav's into the pic. If you keep lavs as is, even w/ a proto av gun, it will require 2-3 shots to take out the starter fit lav which IS a problem, as w/ me putting in over 600k sp not to 1 hit a starter militia lav is a real problem. I find that the only real BIG problem w/ vehicles are the missiles (small and large), and damage mods not stacking and easy of getting them. The other thing id say need to bring in is the SP req needed for vehicles vs av. As not looking at core skilling fully but say they are even(like engy, shielding etc), to be an effective av against adv tanks, you NEED a proto gun. That means 610k sp, and u also need sharpshooter skilling at a minimum at lv 3, which i about another 300k. So you are looking at 950-1mil sp. Then look at tanks, its 310, for vehicle command, then lv 1 for adv (id sp req for it), so say yr at 360k sp now. Most will start w/ missles so it will be roughtly 180-200k sp, to get to lv1 large missile turrets. That is a minimum of say 600k sp, where av requires more (especially fg, as i think sl need to be more affected by sharpshooter). Jsut my. 02 isk, but agree whole hearted, that weapon damage needs to be looked at on vehicles
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.11.17 20:18:00 - [2] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: lDocHollidayl wrote: Proxy mines need to matter...they are terrible. Nice post. Grenades as a whole are fine..kind of. You do not see a spam of grenades because they are not OP. They currently only do full damage at the center...when you are at the edge of the splash you do not receive the full damage. Maps are huge and hitting a guy with a nade is hard enough. Please do not nerf nades. In fact fix grenades so that terrain does not create such barriers. Let us have grenades that blow up 3D not 2D. I'm honestly not sure what the damage is on grenades thanks to their useless damage listed in the info window. Aren't they kinda broken right now as a result of "fixing" their staying around forever? If the proto ones are hitting in the realm of 2000 damage, though, then it needs to come down. For flux grenades, 1800 vs shields is quite a bit, since shields are generally lower than armor, and you're looking at a max shield tank only in the realm of 6-8k hp maybe, which is essentially 3-4 grenades at that point. 2k damage vs armor is pretty awful to be on the armor side of things, since right now max fit is in the 10-12k range. @Berserker Yeah things are expected to be balanced around corp battles and tournament play, otherwise things are made pretty pathetic there if they're balanced around pubs. I'm totally fine with infantry-only lobbies and some kind of restrictions on vehicles in pubs to preserve the fun aspect there, since instant battle should be more fair and fun than "let me solo rampage in my invinci-gear." I'm fine with SP being rebalanced too, but it's never going to be a good balancing factor. It's pretty easy right now to get a functional tank, but it's a huge grind to fully max it out, but if you just increase the SP, the power discrepancy will still be there, I'm just going to get it later and then still be stronger. As for LAVs, I'd love to see them take collision damage equal to the hp of a person they run over, I've seen that proposed before. That'll cut down on them being used to squish people, and make them less of a problem not being able to oneshot them with a forge. Or, we could just cut the starter LAV's hp to compensate, I'm totally fine with that being a garbage vehicle and dying near-instantly to anything. Yeah, i do realize this wasnt fully for pub play, but cant disregard it either, as if u were in my shoes, would u honestly want to put 1mil sp into av if they are useless in pubs, and soley have it for corp/tourny play? .As that 1mil sp could easily put me/others into other areas as we arent gana be doing corp/tourny play 24/7; and then if cant counter vehciles in pub play which is supposed to be "easy"/fun, why bring out any worthwhile dropsuits then? I know can do inf only games (if they have), but vehicles make things interesting. But yeah, this def is prob hardest balance issue ccp will need to face ; as AV struggle for sp to counter vehicles, whereas vehicles struggle to keep up isk