DUST Search - Archaic Game Design Philosophy?

Ops Fox wrote:

Vallud Eadesso wrote:

So this might be a tad controversial but is that not the point of this forum?

I need to get a few things off of my chest, some things that I think are utterly ruining this game and guarantee it'll fail. Right now, it seems the games direction is a mash up between the old school and dated\dead style found in the 1990-2000 era of UT like the high speed, run and gun none-sense that was good for then, but had pretty much died by 2005 mashed against the worst parts of the modern day shooter

We have insane things still in game like Bunny Hopping, I mean, really? Really CCP? Why is bunny hopping even humoured? It's been on of the most complained about 'features' in FPS games since... well since UT style games fell out of favour. We have to deal with strafing back and forth while still being aiming down sights and deadly accurate (If you have access to real firearms, CCP, go try it. You won't hit sh*t.) We have anti vehicle weapons that don't actually seem to bloody damage vehicles, we have a system where skills learnt and gear equipped mean more than careful planning and tactics. I've been in games where one guy had a Douvett assault rifle, and went something like 30/1 and no I'm not exaggerating.

We still have a game play holdover of the traditional Sniper, a game play type that no longer actually contributes to the modern idea of the team-based FPS, yet due to it's simplicity and GUARANTEED positive K/D, everyone want's to play as one. Why is this still in a game that forces team work? Why is a lone wolf class in a game that is supposed to be about everyone working together? Alter the gun\class to work like a Designated Marksman role and we'll be on the right track, right now, the class is all about screwing over YOUR team more than your opponents.

Movement, strafing, it's a big issue and all over the forums. It needs slowing _RIGHT_ down in my opinion, make this game more tactical shooter less run and gun.

Respawning is a pain, and if you guys want to appeal to the COD player, as you said you do in that interview, you probably need to speed it up. I don't mind it, but sometimes, on those particular bad games where you're whole team is snipers or barely pulling a 1/1 KD, I seem to spend more time watching the map and a clock.

Running people over. How do we tackle this one? I guess this one is personal opinion, I mean it happens SO rarely it's probably not an issue, but if you run someone over, armoured vehicle or not, the car WILL be damaged badly. Add the fact the person is wearing armour thick enough to stop bullets and shields that should technically BOUNCE YOU OFF THE CAR WITHOUT INJURY, but I digress...

I don't want to sound like I'm just moaning here. I love this game, I love EVE and I love the EVE universe. I just want to see this game succeed. Right now I just can't see it happening. The game is just too.... frustrating. For the last few nights all i've heard is people swearing and bitching. No one seems to be actually having FUN.

I just don't know what else to add to this, the game feels like it's from a bygone era. I hate to say it like this, either make something unique, and have the nuts to do it, or borrow liberally from a popular shooter. A CURRENT popular shooter.

Hope something here helps. And sorry if it's ... passionate. Game has gotten to me today ;)

1. who bunny hops its kinda ineffective
2. impossibe to properly strafe in this game it can use a slight 10% buff actually
3. a forge two shot my gunlogi my gunlogi has almost 6000HP are we playing the same game?
4. those are the RPG elements their fine actually i dont mind them
4.5 thats just your opinion tactics come up all the time if people were always lone wolfing it
5. and GUARANTEED lower isk and SP returns since 2012
6. run and gun is fun its a game it needs to be fun if every one was forced to be a designated marksmen we get something similar to WWI or socom.
7. see 2
8. yes it is a pain
9. LAVs should take damage not much but some when they run someone over, HAVs should also be able to run people over at their normal speed as well.

these are in the same order they are underlined


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Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 63	Posted - 2012.11.11 01:35:00 - [1] - Quote So this might be a tad controversial but is that not the point of this forum? I need to get a few things off of my chest, some things that I think are utterly ruining this game and guarantee it'll fail. Right now, it seems the games direction is a mash up between the old school and dated\dead style found in the 1990-2000 era of UT like the high speed, run and gun none-sense that was good for then, but had pretty much died by 2005 mashed against the worst parts of the modern day shooter We have insane things still in game like Bunny Hopping, I mean, really? Really CCP? Why is bunny hopping even humoured? It's been on of the most complained about 'features' in FPS games since... well since UT style games fell out of favour. We have to deal with strafing back and forth while still aiming down sights and deadly accurate (If you have access to real firearms, CCP, go try it. You won't hit sh*t.) We have anti vehicle weapons that don't actually seem to bloody damage vehicles, we have a system where skills learnt and gear equipped mean more than careful planning and tactics. I've been in games where one guy had a Douvett assault rifle, and went something like 30/1 and no I'm not exaggerating. We still have a game play holdover of the traditional Sniper, a game play type that no longer actually contributes to the modern idea of the team-based FPS, yet due to it's simplicity it's GUARANTEED positive K/D, everyone want's to play as one. Why is this still in a game that forces team work? Why is a lone wolf class in a game that is supposed to be about everyone working together? Alter the gun\class to work like a Designated Marksman role and we'll be on the right track, right now, the class is all about screwing over YOUR team more than your opponents. Movement, strafing, it's a big issue and all over the forums. It needs slowing _RIGHT_ down in my opinion, make this game more tactical shooter less run and gun. Respawning is a pain, and if you guys want to appeal to the COD player, as you said you do in that interview, you probably need to speed it up. I don't mind it, but sometimes, on those particular bad games where you're whole team is snipers or barely pulling a 1/1 KD, I seem to spend more time watching the map and a clock. Running people over. How do we tackle this one? I guess this one is personal opinion, I mean it happens SO rarely it's probably not an issue, but if you run someone over, armoured vehicle or not, the car WILL be damaged badly. Add the fact the person is wearing armour thick enough to stop bullets and shields that should technically BOUNCE YOU OFF THE CAR WITHOUT INJURY, but I digress... I don't want to sound like I'm just moaning here. I love this game, I love EVE and I love the EVE universe. I just want to see this game succeed. Right now I just can't see it happening. The game is just too.... frustrating. For the last few nights all i've heard is people swearing and bitching. No one seems to be actually having FUN. I just don't know what else to add to this, the game feels like it's from a bygone era. I hate to say it like this, either make something unique, and have the nuts to do it, or borrow liberally from a popular shooter. A CURRENT popular shooter. Hope something here helps. And sorry if it's ... passionate. Game has gotten to me today ;)
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 63	Posted - 2012.11.11 02:06:00 - [2] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: Vallud Eadesso wrote: So this might be a tad controversial but is that not the point of this forum? I need to get a few things off of my chest, some things that I think are utterly ruining this game and guarantee it'll fail. Right now, it seems the games direction is a mash up between the old school and dated\dead style found in the 1990-2000 era of UT like the high speed, run and gun none-sense that was good for then, but had pretty much died by 2005 mashed against the worst parts of the modern day shooter We have insane things still in game like Bunny Hopping, I mean, really? Really CCP? Why is bunny hopping even humoured? It's been on of the most complained about 'features' in FPS games since... well since UT style games fell out of favour. We have to deal with strafing back and forth while still being aiming down sights and deadly accurate (If you have access to real firearms, CCP, go try it. You won't hit sht.) We have anti vehicle weapons that don't actually seem to bloody damage vehicles, we have a system where skills learnt and gear equipped mean more than careful planning and tactics. I've been in games where one guy had a Douvett assault rifle, and went something like 30/1 and no I'm not exaggerating. We still have a game play holdover of the traditional Sniper, a game play type that no longer actually contributes to the modern idea of the team-based FPS, yet due to it's simplicity and GUARANTEED positive K/D, everyone want's to play as one. Why is this still in a game that forces team work? Why is a lone wolf class in a game that is supposed to be about everyone working together? Alter the gun\class to work like a Designated Marksman role and we'll be on the right track, right now, the class is all about screwing over YOUR team more than your opponents. Movement, strafing, it's a big issue and all over the forums. It needs slowing _RIGHT_ down in my opinion, make this game more tactical shooter less run and gun. Respawning is a pain, and if you guys want to appeal to the COD player, as you said you do in that interview, you probably need to speed it up. I don't mind it, but sometimes, on those particular bad games where you're whole team is snipers or barely pulling a 1/1 KD, I seem to spend more time watching the map and a clock. Running people over. How do we tackle this one? I guess this one is personal opinion, I mean it happens SO rarely it's probably not an issue, but if you run someone over, armoured vehicle or not, the car WILL be damaged badly*. Add the fact the person is wearing armour thick enough to stop bullets and shields that should technically BOUNCE YOU OFF THE CAR WITHOUT INJURY, but I digress... I don't want to sound like I'm just moaning here. I love this game, I love EVE and I love the EVE universe. I just want to see this game succeed. Right now I just can't see it happening. The game is just too.... frustrating. For the last few nights all i've heard is people swearing and bitching. No one seems to be actually having FUN. I just don't know what else to add to this, the game feels like it's from a bygone era. I hate to say it like this, either make something unique, and have the nuts to do it, or borrow liberally from a popular shooter. A CURRENT popular shooter. Hope something here helps. And sorry if it's ... passionate. Game has gotten to me today ;) 1. who bunny hops its kinda ineffective 2. impossibe to properly strafe in this game it can use a slight 10% buff actually 3. a forge two shot my gunlogi my gunlogi has almost 6000HP are we playing the same game? 4. those are the RPG elements their fine actually i dont mind them 4.5 thats just your opinion tactics come up all the time if people were always lone wolfing it 5. and GUARANTEED lower isk and SP returns since 2012 6. run and gun is fun its a game it needs to be fun if every one was forced to be a designated marksmen we get something similar to WWI or socom. 7. see 2 8. yes it is a pain 9. LAVs should take damage not much but some when they run someone over, HAVs should also be able to run people over at their normal speed as well. these are in the same order they are underlined 1. I've seen almost everyone bunny hop like, daily. As soon as you start shooting people seem to bunny hop and spin to locate you. Won't say it HELPS, but it's still a pain. 2. I never knew about the buff actually. Perhaps experiencing latency or poor\early game development? Stuttery and jerky bothers me. 3. If Forge guns are the go to AV weapons why bother having Missile\Rocket Launchers? 4. RPG elements are FINE and I feel it gives the game that longevity it'll need. But that much? 5. I honestly don't think it's personal opinion. I worked in the games industry professionally for around 6 years. Our focus tests say the sniper class is the most detested class in team based FPS... because they're never part of the team. 6.Run and Gun needs to die, that's what I've found in my work and focus testing. it's fallen out of favour. It's archaic and has no part of the game. Name one R&G that has longevity? 7.Noted. 8. HAVs should be fine yeah, i'll give you that. LAVs though I think we can agree on. Like I said, incredibly rare though.
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 63	Posted - 2012.11.11 12:29:00 - [3] - Quote I just want to add to this about run and gun and what people said here. I think I have a totally different idea of what Run and Gun is compared to most people! Seems that way anyways! :D To me Run and Gun is games like Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 and games from that 'era' that still seem to liner around like bad smells (See Bioshock multiplayer) I would argue that Halo does NOT fall into that category as it has an incredible amount of actual tactics going on, as well as incredibly fine weapon design and balance. COD is somewhere in the middle, it's absurdly fast, but the gun play and weapon restrictions seem to keep the role warfare there, if i'm making sense? I had to admit, i've not played a COD since Black Ops and have no intention of ever picking another one of them up. To me, run and gun is a game where you have to unload 3-4 mags into someone to drop them. Run and Gun still harbours the old gameplay style attributed to the old fashioned Sniper. Run and Gun still encourages solo play styles over working as a team. Hope that clarifies a bit what we specifically got from our Focus Testing.