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Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
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Posted - 2012.11.06 09:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is not an issue of swarms, though they shouldn't avoid ships coming straight at you to take up position behind them for certain.
Their speed is certainly not an issue. Swarms should not catch a DS flying away at high-speed.
The issue is not that DS's are overpowered in their own sense.
The issue is ridiculously high-powered missile turrets with a 20ft splash radius that do enough to 1-shot a proto heavy, much less anyone else.
Solution: Limit Dropships to blasters.
While I agree that swarm pathing needs to be fixed, I don't see an issue with their speed if they simply go for their target rather than where their target was at the point of firing (what's the purpose in lock-on if that's how it works? Also, why can't we dumbfire anymore?) the issue is dropships loading up accelerated missile turrets and having gunners with a few levels of turret operations.
By limiting dropships to blasters they have to move slower and lower to the ground to be used as attack vehicles which is not their intent, but they could still defend themselves when coming in to land to drop off or pick up troopers.
As I've said a few times before: Dropships should be DUST's Huey choppers, not Apache Arrowheads (which I think we're expecting from the light attack ships later to come).
TL;DR:
Limit dropships to blasters only
Fix swarm pathing, not speed
Possibly re-institute dumb-fire |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
I wouldnt go so far.
Simply Reduce massively damage, and splash damage of light missile turrets.
Add a major recoil for using missile turret, especially light. That will avoid spam.
Add some sort of effect from firing range.
Dropship will then still be able to launch missile and hurt infantry. But they shouldnt get the ability to rain death... Same goes with LAV that will otherwise become the next best thing with massive shield tank and going around firing missile at its feets etc..
Light missile should be good to create panic and hurt a group of infantry to help its teamates take an edge in battle. Forcing ennemy to disband. Not OSing them .... And if you have no anti-air mesure, you should be killed eventually by a dropship using missiles.
Good points and another very viable solution.
Again, the real issue is that a DS can just fly in circles around the battlefield and unleash pin-point accurate missile barrage over every inch of ground it covers. Even if not, with enough splash damage it only needs to hit in the general vicinity to wipe out half a squad of people moving to cap an objective.
Put in recoil to throw off the targeting or even a capacitor to limit the speed at which it can fire in the first place.
My issue with adding speed to swarms directly rather than just fixing their pathing is that this will allow one guy in a free suit to wipe out a two week's SP investment and half a mil in ISK on the part of the guy flying DS. Even if he's a good pilot, if he's unable to outrun or out manouver swarms coming at him from behind while he's moving off at top speed he's screwed by a dude in a throwaway suit. I like the speed of swarms actually, even when I'm being dominated by a DS myself. The problem is that when it's coming right at me and I lock on and fire, I've literally watched my swarms head straight for the DS, then swerve around it to avoid the it before reaching where they were locked on and turning around to give chase. That is a huge problem. |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 13:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gunner Needed wrote:Another duplicate thread.
stop clogging the Forums
I've fought against and with you so I won't insult you as I aspire to be as competent pilot as you are, but please read the actual post.
This isn't an attack on Dropships whatsoever, and as such not a duplicate thread of any kind.
I love dropships, even when going up against them in combat. I'm just saying there's a serious issue with how their being used as high-speed missile platforms rather than... you know... dropships.
I'd rather the issue with their offensive capabilities be adjusted than have their mobility or defensive capacity nerfed completely into uselessness thus ruining the investment of time and money players like yourself have put into them.
If you'd taken more than 5 seconds to scroll down and post your quick reply you would see I'm actually trying to save the style of gameplay you excel at rather than strip you of skill mechanics you've learned and mastered. Unless of course you'd rather CCP just let freebie swarm kiddies just butcher your wallet, as they keep crying for, every time you try to take to the unfriendly skies.
So many people whine and complain about Dropships being overpowered when that isn't the issue at all, but if theirs is the voice loudest heard CCP will respond to that because they will eventually have to fold to the majority to make a game that appeals to as many people as possible rather than the limited few who play a certain way.
What we're all here to do, hopefully as we've clearly all read the agreements and contracts we signed up for, is to actually be willing to ponder the issues and make constructive feedback for them to consider. That's all I'm trying to do here, and in such a way that rather than hurting someone's gameplay experience it balances things for people on all sides of the argument.
If there are more actual constructive suggestions from anyone we should get them out so CCP can actually take note of them rather than people being childish whiners and naysayers. |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 13:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:A better solution would be to NERF THE GODDAMNED MISSILES and to give dropships a range bonus to blasters.
The reason noone is using blaster or rai turrets is that missiles are too good, they have good ROF, huge explosion radius, huge damage and don't overheat.
I would greately reduce missile splash damage and/or make them have to reload after a few shots, like overheating.
Dropships also need WP FOR SPAWNING AND FERRYING PEOPLE, it's stupid that pilots don't get points for what they are supposed to do.
Again, Martin, please read the original posts. This is the whole idea behind this thread (a commentary on missile turrets really, not so much dropships themselves as they've already gone from a rapid transport in the last build to flying bricks, as if that wasn't enough suffering for pilots to endure) but I'd rather it be a constructive work with well thought out arguments and support rather than people just spewing words.
I like the idea of dropship CRU giving spawn WP. That's something that I think we can all get behind. |
Chankk Saotome
CrimeWave Syndicate
170
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 11:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Wots dis? Another thread of whiners whining when they can't adapt? EVE and certainly Dust are all about emergent gameplay. You can't demand that dropships get a super nerf just so you can stroke your epeen by getting kills that are 100% guaranteed with what you are asking for.
I don't think anyone's really whining, though there are some more... agitated? posts in here.
Personally I have no desire to see dropships weakened whatsoever. In fact I miss their flight mechanics from the previous build as I've stated before and to anyone who I've ever talked to about that "flight controls tweak" and would really like to see their defenses increased myself. Maybe others here and on forums want "nerfs" to dropships themselves but I certainly don't. I just want to see them put to the role their name claims, not high-speed missile platforms which means an adjustment to their turret capabilities.
I'm not arguing to boost swarm capabilities either I'm totally against any changes to their speed for certain, though their tracking is a bit wonky when they literally swerve to avoid the dropship coming head-on to take up chase position behind it.
I'd rather see a tweak to their offensive capacity because if players don't try to make and express thought out arguments to defend something, which is what I'm actually doing if you'd like to take note, then CCP will only listen to said whiners and do exactly what we fear to give the majority their way, ruining hundreds of thousands of SP and millions of ISK invested by players interested in taking up the particular role of dropship pilots.
Another note:
I see your point as well Gunner Needed and there need to be more benefits to dropship pilots other than being SL and getting defend order commission and vehicle kill assists for WP gains. CRU spawns (though most people using dropships as flying missile platforms are loaded up on shields and boosters rather than making the sacrifice to carry one of these) should give at least Team Spawn gains, if not more. Possibly passive gains for dropping off squaddies into combat areas or near rally points. |
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