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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.13 16:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote:My only guess is that there might be a problem we miss with points for rehacking. Like possibilities to exploit etc.
Even if it was only 20 points with 10 for Assists, having 2 or 3 guys at each objective from each team and just hacking then rehacking would let you farm points even faster than the Repair Tool exploit used to. Add a defend order, and... ouch.
It would require teams to coordinate with the enemy, but it would be possible, and there would be people who find ways to do it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Boss Dirge wrote:everyone agrees completely
...so you missed my post where I pointed out how exploitable the system would be if you have both teams working together? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 02:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm all for +1ing, as soon as someone can come up with a counter to the exploitability problem.
Just saying. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 10:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mister Hunt wrote:Garrett, it is actually easier now to exploit it in the manner that you are talking about. Let it go full tilt and rehack nets points, and is faster than trying to stop the hack.
Just saying.
How could that possibly even come close to resembling a rational answer?
Which is the longer process here?
1. Let enemy hack objective.
2. Rehack before their hack goes through.
OR
1. Let enemy hack objective.
2. Wait for their hack to go through.
3. Hack the objective yourself.
4. Wait for your hack to go through.
Spoiler: The second option is longer by the end of step 2, and more than twice as long at step 4.
At half points, that means 50 for a rehack and 25 for an assist.
How to exploit the suggested system:
1. Bring 2 teams of 6 players by queue-synching near downtime.
2. Get into a map with 4 objectives.
3. Each team splits into 2 groups of 3 players, and rushes the nearest 2 objectives.
4. After both teams have group-hacked their 2 objectives, each team sends 1 person from each to the enemy objective.
5. The lone player hacks the objective, then returns to the nearest friendly objective and trades places while the enemy rehacks for 75 points each time, with less than half the time it would take to wait for the hack to complete then take it back.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 until the battle ends, with both teams cycling through players to distribute WPs evenly. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 12:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mister Hunt wrote:And you don't think that someone on one of the two teams wouldn't run over and just throw a grenade on all of them? I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm just saying that it can happen now.
Not when they're deliberately queue-syncing in low-activity periods, as I mentioned, or doing it during private contracts to buff each other's stats, as will undoubtedly happen post-release if this is added as an option.
And Jackal, read my last post for why your suggestion is even worse than the previous one. Imagine how bad that would be if it was 150 points a piece instead of only 75 like people are suggesting.
It's something that should be encouraged, and the best way is to reward it, but I can't see a way to do so that's not going to be open to this kind of cheap exploit. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 15:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:I see your point Garret, but the exploit you're mentioning requires a dedicated and coordinated sync up. They literally pour their whole team into these exploit matches. Whereas the exploits on the current one are ones anyone can use. All you have to do is wait for the enemy hack to complete, and rehack.
Anyone can do this, but it takes cross-team coordination to do the other. (not saying it wont happen) but that any single rogue element in that game will stop the idiocy, and even if it didn;t it's harder to pull off that exploit than the current one.
For it to be an exploit, there needs to be some benefit to it that can't be achieved in "normal" play. The time taken to wait for two hacks totally negates any value the current system has which could make it an exploit. If you eliminate that forced downtime where you're NOT actively hacking and just waiting for things to happen on their own, then you leave the system open to be ACTUALLY exploited.
The current system allows for a sort of "gentleman's agreement" deal where the side with the advantage can choose to hand a few War Points to their enemies in exchange for some on their own counters. If the defenders choose not to do that, they can rehack and prevent either side from gaining anything. There's no exploit in that, just a choice to go for more WP on your team, or deny the enemy WP for their own side.
If rehack points are added without something to balance the exploitability, Corporations or Alliances WILL use it to pad their members' stats with private contracts. In the current build, yes, you have to queue-sync, but that's not taking the intended final goals of the game into account. Players will be able to effectively create private battles where their choice of players will be the only combatants on the field. They already can, to a certain extent, but by release, it will be easily set up using in-game tools, rather than players having to force their desired scenario. In THAT situation, exploitation and stat-padding will be blatantly facilitated by adding WP rewards for rehacking. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 11:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:Actually, rehacking a point after it's been hacked takes alot longer. Literally twice the time it takes to initially 'hack' the point. So that balance is there. I've often killed the guy who's just hacked said point. Had to bum around and kill another due to not wanting to be killed while rehacking, only to try rehack and not actually rehack before it goes red...
The active portion of an objective hack is about half the time taken to re-hack. But the time taken for a player to hack THEN wait for the hack to complete is longer than the time taken to hack then immediately re-hack the point. When comparing the time taken to EXPLOIT the two systems, the current system takes longer to get WP than the suggested alternatives.
Also, multiple players on a point reduces the time spent actively hacking or re-hacking, but there's NO way to reduce the time spent WAITING between hacks in the current system. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 12:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
So a bunch of additional +1 calls without anyone addressing the problems?
Good to see the internet up to its usual tricks. |
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