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Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 11:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
- Remove knock effect, it is insane (replace with screen shake if you must)
- Remove burning armor, it is a ham-fisted mechanic that punishes variety
- Require swarms to maintain lock, get rid of stupid pathing annoyances
- Drop damage progression, 50% boost at prototype is too high
- Increase speed to ~150 m/s, drop flight time to ~1-1.5s
- Drop missile turret direct damage to 125% splash
- Drop small missile range to 100m optimal + 100m falloff
- Adjust large missile turrets similarly (200m+200m)
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Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 11:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
9. Change swarm operation skill to 10% flight time
10. Change X missile turret operation to 3% turn speed, proficiency to 3% ROF
11. Add turret sharpshooter skills
12. Add EW/stealth mechanics for hampering/breaking locks (works with 3 really well) |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:I agree they need fixing, but I'm not sure if this is how. Something needs doing, that's for sure. Tbh, someone out there is being paid to make this game. It's about time they started taking things more seriously than "omg, that guy just exploded man! How awesome was that!!!??? Missiles are da bomb!!!" because I think everyone is sick of it. EVERY build they are the only small turret worth using.
This is not my first attempt at fixing, but this should require the least work. I honestly think the maps are the #1 problem with mixed arms balance at the moment, but since that will take lots of time, I would encourage trying an area denial fix to swarms. Then they can be effective without wiping out every vehicle on the map with no skill or investment. However, I couldn't help myself and threw in a few related fixes that should go hand in hand. The jesus missiles need toned down without being useless, and the infinite range and direct damage are the biggest overreach into railgun territory, hence the most critical.
True that this is someone's job, but that person is doing a terrible one. Might as well help point them in the right direction. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Tony Calif wrote:I agree they need fixing, but I'm not sure if this is how. Something needs doing, that's for sure. Tbh, someone out there is being paid to make this game. It's about time they started taking things more seriously than "omg, that guy just exploded man! How awesome was that!!!??? Missiles are da bomb!!!" because I think everyone is sick of it. EVERY build they are the only small turret worth using. This is not my first attempt at fixing, but this should require the least work. I honestly think the maps are the #1 problem with mixed arms balance at the moment, but since that will take lots of time, I would encourage trying an area denial fix to swarms. Then they can be effective without wiping out every vehicle on the map with no skill or investment. However, I couldn't help myself and threw in a few related fixes that should go hand in hand. The jesus missiles need toned down without being useless, and the infinite range and direct damage are the biggest overreach into railgun territory, hence the most critical. True that this is someone's job, but that person is doing a terrible one. Might as well help point them in the right direction. If your going to alter the railgun then you need to alter the forge gun and do you remember all the crying when the forge gun got a range cap on it? As for missiles its like firing an RPG and complaining that it took out a bunch of ppl in a 5m area when its carrying an explosive, missiles are the same and will have a big splash damage area its is what they are made for to basically rip a massive **** hole through what it hit and cause extra damage from the resulting explosion
Missiles are too good at everything, to the point that they are the only viable small turret option. Swarms are all kinds of broken. On one hand they are horrendously powerful for no SP or skill required, but by the same token, skilled swarm launchers are rendered useless vs skilled dropship pilots. I think adding skill to swarm use and making sure missiles don't do every role the best is minimum for any fix. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:armor burn is a mechanic to balance armor vs shield tankers.
if a shield tanker is dumb enough to get caught out in the open and excapes with 1/4 of his armor intact and he didn't bother using his CPU/PG for a armor rep, that is his own fault.
if they remove it there is no point to armor tanking vs shield tanking. you would be a tarded monkey with a wrench if you chose to armor tank instead of shield if there was no equalizer.
as for the drop missile splash damage by 125% i'm confused. you want 0% splash or you want to increase it by 25%.
i still don't get what everyone's vendetta against AOE damage is.
"splosions keep killing me, eleminate them so they have to score direct hits inorder to kill me"
Armor burning punishes barely winning. In other words, it creates artificial equalization between players of different skill and SP level. It is a "dumbing down the game" mechanic. It also makes armor buffer tanking (a common tactic in EVE no less) suicidal, since you will die only having taken 40-60% damage. It punishes daring victory and skill, it rewards luck and uniform fitting. It should go. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:
Armor burning punishes barely winning. In other words, it creates artificial equalization between players of different skill and SP level. It is a "dumbing down the game" mechanic. It also makes armor buffer tanking (a common tactic in EVE no less) suicidal, since you will die only having taken 40-60% damage. It punishes daring victory and skill, it rewards luck and uniform fitting. It should go.
daring victory? no, because half the time when a shield tanker gets down to armor he is already at his base because the cowards just run. and because a 20 ton vehicle can move faster than the missiles that are hitting it it doesn't take a whole lot of "skill" to run away.
Read more closely. I think swarms should be sped up very significantly with such a change, but also more limited in range. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:
Read more closely. I think swarms should be sped up very significantly with such a change, but also more limited in range.
if their path was fixed it wouldn't require a speed up in missiles. missiles have a fine speed, if they would target the vehicle and not a peice of the vehicle and see the rest as a obstacle to go around. timing shots has been kind of fun for me. most people just let the missiles fly as soon as they get a lock. my team and me actually plan when releasing missiles. waiting for a tank to get out in the open and just far enough so we get 2 sets of kittens from 3 squad mates. it should take some finesse something no one sees because everyone is "herp derp i lock and release no skill" i will agree that the knockback of the missiles is a bit much, dropships aren't made of cardboard.
Their pathing is atrocious. They weave around cover and buildings yet run into small bumps in the road. It is broken for both sides. Furthermore, if they only fixed pathing, dropships could still ignore them using standard flight patterns. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:
Their pathing is atrocious. They weave around cover and buildings yet run into small bumps in the road. It is broken for both sides. Furthermore, if they only fixed pathing, dropships could still ignore them using standard flight patterns.
that is where positioning comes in. firing missiles at the backside of a dropship shouldn't hit if the ship is moving fast enough. the gunners just say to the pilot that kittens are incomming from whatever side they are seeing (assuming communication is even happening). then the ship banks and takes off and avoids the missiles. but as that happens a swarm launcher from the front end fires and logic says that the missiles will meet the ship if the pathing is correct and the ship is slowed down a bit from the front hit making the missiles hit his back end allowing more missiles to be locked and hit.
As a controls specialist in senior year of aerospace engineering, intercepts with a slower projectile than a non-ballistic target would be about as effective as we have now. And the math can't be manipulated to ignore that just because it is a video game.
Also, I should point out that timing your fire is not skill, it is tactics. There is a significant difference; I promote a game that rewards skill, since that makes tactical victory over more skilled opponents more satisfying. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 18:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
I like them as the area of effect, premier anti-personnel weapon, with a medium range. Right now they out damage and out range the rail, while they clear infantry better than the blaster in many situations. Hence why I think they need limitations added. Notice that the numbers would give the tank more range than the swarm, which means you can't force tanks to the redline with one guy on a mountaintop at the edge of the map, improving the dynamic without destroying anyone's role. |
Noc Tempre
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Posted - 2012.10.30 18:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:
As a controls specialist in senior year of aerospace engineering, intercepts with a slower projectile than a non-ballistic target would be about as effective as we have now. And the math can't be manipulated to ignore that just because it is a video game.
Also, I should point out that timing your fire is not skill, it is tactics. There is a significant difference; I promote a game that rewards skill, since that makes tactical victory over more skilled opponents more satisfying.
depends on how the missile is guided and if it has the software to determine where the target is going to be (how it should work). the missile being able to determine the size of the object and the speed can determine the mass and the stopping time of said object making the corrections in mid flight. unless the vehicle makes a sudden stop in mid air and break the laws of pysics it should hit. and if the vehicle stops in mid air the missiles fired previously will hit it.
Hitting a ballistic item at speed is really really hard. Unless they fudge it, hitting a non-ballistic vehicle wouldn't work the way you envision. |
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