|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
   |
Posted - 2012.10.28 22:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Leaderboards promote cheating, there, i said it.
K/D stats promote camp-heavy play. People will stop caring about group play and only care about 'not getting killed'. And yes, i believe a K/D stat promotes this kind of play even more so than the economy of Dust does!
Both of these things do not belong in a shooter like Dust. One must ask: Have they been implemented because Dust needs them or because other games have them? |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 22:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arguments? Why should they be kept? |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 08:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:If you think the DUST leader board promotes cheating, what would you say about the kill boards for Eve online? www.Eve-kill.net
There are no official killboards, just player-run ones (and a lot of them). Even to the people who post on them they don't matter that much.
The Dust leaderboard however is official and central, there's only one for all players. Naturally people want to be up as high as possible on it.
NeoprotoD wrote:I disagree with the assertion that they promote cheating. Imo I think they should be kept but shouldn't be the only way a person's FPS worth is measured. Dust should have mechanisms in place that measure # of hacks, # hacks completed, Armor/Shield repaired, # revives and much more.
They don't necessarily "just" promote cheating, they promote 'bad playstyles'. With only kills and deaths tracked such a leaderboard promotes people to be as useless to their team as possible, camping far away to get easy kills and die as little as possible. This is exactly what happens in 80% of all Battlefield matches aswell, it's hard to find a decent team-oriented player on a public server there and i'm 100% sure the situation will be exactly the same over here.
Since you get a decent amount of SP and isk even if your team loses, there is simply very little to no incentive for people to play the game as it was intended. imho, isk rewards for winning should be higher so that people are willing to risk their stuff more often. |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 10:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:op is completely missing the point of this beta - we are here to find exploits and bugs, if the leader boards are (As you say) promotes cheating, then we need more leaderboards!
To be honest, i fail to see the point of a beta if i'm not allowed to comment on features i believe are unnecessary or harmful to the game ;p
I still want to know why a leaderboard was included. Was it included because it was judged to be beneficial to Dust 514, or was it included just because other games have one?
If it was included just because of that last argument, i argue that it's a bad decision. Dust is not like other shooters, trying to make it like a Call of duty of a Battlefield was never the intent of CCP (or so i was led to believe), so the inclusion of a leaderboard just to seem competitive would feel like a misguided decision.
I can't really think of any good arguments to include a leaderboard in Dust. It promotes individual e-peening over proper teamplay since people start to care about having good stats rather than having fun and working as a team. This is a problem that shows up in CoD and BF aswell by the way (where i feel leaderboards and stats are also somewhat out of proportion in terms of their impact on styles of play) and in a shooter like Dust, where teamplay is even more essential since you can actually lose equipment and vehicles permanently when destroyed in any match - Promoting individual stats seems like the wrong thing to do.
CCP, can you please give me some insight in the thought process that went on to include leaderboards/stats? |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:How will eve corps know if they can trust a particular corp with a contract without stat tracking and leaderboards?
Because the results will be obvious - Did the planets get conquered or not? Whether or not you've won can be seen without needing stats, you just open the map in EVE and check whom the planet belongs to, depending on whether you can check where they operated (i assume this can be done just like sov changes are done currently in the api).
Just like you check it for similar activities in EVE itself, actually. Is that one merc corp effective? what have they done recently? What effect has it had on their target and client? These kinds of things are almost immediately obvious.
You did bring up a pretty interesting point: You want to know the stats of a corp, not an individual player. This i would agree on being useful for Dust since this heavily promotes teamplay.
Abolish individual ladders and introduce corp ladders! Average winrate, history of hired matches and average stats across all members involved in the matches (no stats per individual player). Public matches should not be counted in these stats for obvious reasons (using pubstomps to farm ranks). It's possible that the system can be abused lightly by arranging matches within EVE, though given the volatile and dangerous nature of EVE space it's something like that likely will never last for very long.
I don't know how stats would be tracked for individuals without promoting 'gaming the game'. Personally, i could do without stats since public servers aren't exactly a good measure for them anyway (again, harking back to CoD and BF where metagaming the stats is far too easy purely because you can play on public servers). |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Joe Darkwater wrote:Hobos-N-Guns wrote:LONG QUOTE FROM ME, JOE
Eve Online keeps track of and posts official kill mails so they cannot be tampered with. And yes there are people dumb enough to carry plex's, bpo / bpc into null sec. Eve Online doesnt do anything like that. You can temper with the mails the way you like. Eve-kill.net might consider those tinkerings. Not sure but there are hundrets of thousands of Killboards that dont do so and even eve-kill wasnt fake proof all the time. But thats not the point. Much more interesting is: You quote my entire post including a pretty neat Idea and the only thing you are referring to is killmails??!?
Killmails can be API verified.
Nowadays, if they're not verified, they're certified fakes. |
Marcus Chrome
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 09:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Free Beers wrote:No.
/thread And everyone's favorite opinionated forum king steps in again. On the topic of the OP, I would personally shed no tears to see the Leaderboard removed. As far as the K/D stat, that actually makes sense to have, as it speaks to the efficiency of the player, which could be essential when trying to get hired to a Corp.
If you want to apply to a corp i'd say that tryouts are a far better idea.
As i said before, you can game the stats and get to a point where you have a 10/1 KDR by camping in a corner of the map all day long, but you don't want those people in your corp would you? :P |
|
|
| |
|