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The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 20:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, I've talked to people from a couple of matchs so far. The way it sounds, the vehicles are a serious issue. both for the team with them and the team without them. Basically this is supposed to be a FPSMMORPG and people are playing it like a tank command MMORPG.
I've heard What the French was calling in vehicles in the open all match and couldn't get their player count up until near the end of the match. I imagine that is because they kept disconnecting because I hear U4A had disconnect issues as well. WTF was stupid to keep calling in vehicles in the open instead of at safe locations like the back of their base, and using vehicles was apparently their main strategy. If they had been smart about it they might have done a lot better, but having a low player count at the start makes things very hard.
U4A I've heard more about. From what I hear had trouble with disconnects throughout their match, and one person in their squad reported a total of 6 dropships and 7 tanks total on the other team for the whole match. I don't know how accurate that number is, but I don't doubt it. U4A had one dropship pilot and he disconnected before the match was half over, and one tank pilot who stayed pinned down by 2-4 tanks and 2 dropships pretty much the whole match.
This all seems rather ridiculous. If people are going to spam tanks and dropships all match this game no longer deserves the title of FPS. It's already barely hanging onto the tittle of MMO with all of the lag and disconnects. Right now in the big matches it's a tank command game with playable air support and ground troops. If this keeps up, every corp match is going to depend on who spawns in first with the best/most vehicles or who comes in with the best forge guns/AV grenades (I don't even count swarm launchers since they are pretty useless unless your against a militia vehicle or a LAV).
Basically what I see here is a vehicle balance issue. Might I make a suggestion? Limit vehicles to 1 tank and 2 dropships per team per match in all corp battles. You can leave it alone in regular battles, people need a playground, but in important matches we need to keep things fair for ground troops. This will let people who spec into these roles have the chance to properly participate without feeling left out. You can then decide who is the best tank/dropship pilot in your corp and make sure they are the only ones who call in the vehicles. You'd need to strategize as to whether you call in your tank/dropship right away or to wait till later in the match, so people who spawn in with AV fits first thing have to switch up or get shot.
Side note: Dropships are being used as attack ships. This is ridiculous as well. A suggestion maybe? Make blaster turrets the only turrets available on them. They can then be used as anti infantry as the ship sets down and can't be abused for attack ships. Spamming rocket's across the map where no weapons can hit it with any accuracy is insane for dropship. Alternately, add a LOT of recoil that throws the ship sideways hard whenever the missile turrets are used. This will require turret users to have to be careful about when they shoot instead of just bombarding objectives with flying death while their team hacks it.
I'll be posting these two last things in the suggestions section. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 21:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:It's the planetary combat side of the MMO called EVE, not an FPS as you know it. Vehicles are just as valid as running around and pulling a trigger.
FPS is FPS. There is no "tank command/dropship/FPS" genre, and if that is what they are aiming at then they should say so instead of calling it an FPS. "not FPS as you know it" means it's not FPS. FF Tactics is a tactical RPG, but they don't call it an RPG. If you brand it something, you make it what it is supposed to be. Do you really think new players are going to come in here and see this mess and think it's an FPS like they were thinking it was going to be?
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Perhaps you should change your title? I was hoping to hear an analysis of all of today's battles and not piecemeal information from only two used to support our arguments for change in the game. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, only stating your thread title is misleading.
I agree and apologize for that, it was not intended. Changed now.
Reiki Jubo wrote:let it play out the devs need to see how vehicle balance works in a competitive environment. disconnects wont be a problem in retail cuz they have much more servers up.
Absolutely. I just wanted to give them some suggestions as to what might fix the situation. They can take it or leave it, I was just offering some ideas like a good tester. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I personally believe vehicles have a place in FPS games. Maybe we need to stop thinking about FPS as just a run and shoot type game and as a battle simulator.
I don't disagree, I'm not saying remove them altogether. I'm saying they need to be less available for spamming. Money will be almost no issue once EVE is fully linked in. That means as bad as it is now, it will be 100 times worse when money is no longer an issue. If this is going to be a FPS then make it so that FPS is the main focus, not vehicles. In a match with masses of vehicles on the field it makes coming in as anything but AV pointless and a waste of ISK/SP. And there goes the casual FPS crowd we need to fill in the ranks. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tectonious Falcon wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:Ok, I've talked to people from a couple of matchs so far. The way it sounds, the vehicles are a serious issue. both for the team with them and the team without them. Basically this is supposed to be a FPSMMORPG and people are playing it like a tank command MMORPG.
I've heard What the French was calling in vehicles in the open all match and couldn't get their player count up until near the end of the match. I imagine that is because they kept disconnecting because I hear U4A had disconnect issues as well. WTF was stupid to keep calling in vehicles in the open instead of at safe locations like the back of their base, and using vehicles was apparently their main strategy. If they had been smart about it they might have done a lot better, but having a low player count at the start makes things very hard.
U4A I've heard more about. From what I hear had trouble with disconnects throughout their match, and one person in their squad reported a total of 6 dropships and 7 tanks total on the other team for the whole match. I don't know how accurate that number is, but I don't doubt it. U4A had one dropship pilot and he disconnected before the match was half over, and one tank pilot who stayed pinned down by 2-4 tanks and 2 dropships pretty much the whole match.
This all seems rather ridiculous. If people are going to spam tanks and dropships all match this game no longer deserves the title of FPS. It's already barely hanging onto the tittle of MMO with all of the lag and disconnects. Right now in the big matches it's a tank command game with playable air support and ground troops. If this keeps up, every corp match is going to depend on who spawns in first with the best/most vehicles or who comes in with the best forge guns/AV grenades (I don't even count swarm launchers since they are pretty useless unless your against a militia vehicle or a LAV).
Basically what I see here is a vehicle balance issue. Might I make a suggestion? Limit vehicles to 1 tank and 2 dropships per team per match in all corp battles. You can leave it alone in regular battles, people need a playground, but in important matches we need to keep things fair for ground troops. This will let people who spec into these roles have the chance to properly participate without feeling left out. You can then decide who is the best tank/dropship pilot in your corp and make sure they are the only ones who call in the vehicles. You'd need to strategize as to whether you call in your tank/dropship right away or to wait till later in the match, so people who spawn in with AV fits first thing have to switch up or get shot.
Side note: Dropships are being used as attack ships. This is ridiculous as well. A suggestion maybe? Make blaster turrets the only turrets available on them. They can then be used as anti infantry as the ship sets down and can't be abused for attack ships. Spamming rocket's across the map where no weapons can hit it with any accuracy is insane for dropship. Alternately, add a LOT of recoil that throws the ship sideways hard whenever the missile turrets are used. This will require turret users to have to be careful about when they shoot instead of just bombarding objectives with flying death while their team hacks it.
I'll be posting these two last things in the suggestions section. If CCP didn't want vehicles to be used, then they wouldn't have put them in the game. It's a valid tactic. Perhaps other corps should bring AV fits to counter them. Replacing vehicles that get blown up doesn't mean anything either, that's not vehicle spamming, that's just replacing vehicles so your strategy still works.
ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER SAID REMOVE THEM. Read the whole post before you post pointless things that I already covered. A limit on the number is not unreasonable, and as I just said one post ago there is no point to spending SP/ISK on non AV fits or vehicles if every enemy on the field is in a tank or dropship. That removes the necessity of having ground troops for anything other than manning turrets and jumping out to quickly cap objectives. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I personally believe vehicles have a place in FPS games. Maybe we need to stop thinking about FPS as just a run and shoot type game and as a battle simulator. I don't disagree, I'm not saying remove them altogether. I'm saying they need to be less available for spamming. Money will be almost no issue once EVE is fully linked in. That means as bad as it is now, it will be 100 times worse when money is no longer an issue. If this is going to be a FPS then make it so that FPS is the main focus, not vehicles. In a match with masses of vehicles on the field it makes coming in as anything but AV pointless and a waste of ISK/SP. And there goes the casual FPS crowd we need to fill in the ranks. Face it. You will never convince everyone to believe in your interpretation of what an fps really is. Again, agree to disagree.
I agree with you. However I stand by my interpretation of an FPS being an FPS. They can whine all they want, but an FPS is not tank command no matter how much they wish it was. Tank command with FPS elements is different than FPS, and there is a lot bigger crowd of FPS players out there than there are tank command players. Most of these vehicle users only decided to go for vehicles because it's easily exploitable right now. And now they are complaining because I suggested that they may be misunderstanding what an FPS is and what Dust was intended to be.
When the Dev's see how insane this all is, I'm sure they will fix it. They are trying to make a balanced game here, and having glaring exploits like this shoved into their face should easily show them how bad things have gotten. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
RankRancid wrote:Now that I think about it. How many fps games recently released don't have vehicles in them?
OP have you been playing crysis 2 lately?
Serious question like your one about what fps game has tanks and dropships( ok you get a point,yet you do get gunships,pavelows and AC-130 so I'll take that point back )
What fps has no tanks and 'dropships'? Is the better question I would imagine.
How many times must I say this? I NEVER SAID NO TANKS OR DROPSHIPS! ARE YOU ALL DAFT OR JUST PLAYING IGNORANT?! LIMITS! I said LIMITS! I am NOT saying take them out. And I KNOW other games have them. They are also LIMITED in other FPS games, which is what I am suggesting HERE. And I said NO limits on regular matches, only in CORP battles. LEARN TO READ you illiterate b*astards. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:As I mentioned multiple times in other threads, the state of the market will one day determine the value of the weapons and vehicles based on supply and demand, player controlled manufacturing, individual income, and availability of resources needed to produce said items. The market will be limited at first, but given enough time it will balance out even with the isk flowing.
In eve online only the powerful alliances have massive isk because they were able to corner various markets and monopolize on certain goods such as hulk production and oxygen isotopes.
Besides, if ccp decides to impose a heavy tax on isk transfers between an eve and dust, then your concern about the excessive isk flow will not be so much of a concern.
Thank you very much Macken Tosch for all of the actually CONSTRUCTIVE responses. You make a valid point once again, however as long as there is no real limit on vehicles, regardless of how large the taxes are, there will always be people grinding in every corp in order to make sure their vehicle supply stays full enough to flood the field. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:RankRancid wrote:Now that I think about it. How many fps games recently released don't have vehicles in them?
OP have you been playing crysis 2 lately?
Serious question like your one about what fps game has tanks and dropships( ok you get a point,yet you do get gunships,pavelows and AC-130 so I'll take that point back )
What fps has no tanks and 'dropships'? Is the better question I would imagine. How many times must I say this? I NEVER SAID NO TANKS OR DROPSHIPS! ARE YOU ALL DAFT OR JUST PLAYING IGNORANT?! LIMITS! I said LIMITS! I am NOT saying take them out. And I KNOW other games have them. They are also LIMITED in other FPS games, which is what I am suggesting HERE. And I said NO limits on regular matches, only in CORP battles. LEARN TO READ you illiterate b*astards. Responding like that is not going to help your case. Less CAPS, less attitude, and more calmness please.
Sorry, I get irritated when people post without actually taking the whole point I'm making into account. They try to attack one piece of it and ignore everything else I said. I'm better now. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
RankRancid wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:RankRancid wrote:Now that I think about it. How many fps games recently released don't have vehicles in them?
OP have you been playing crysis 2 lately?
Serious question like your one about what fps game has tanks and dropships( ok you get a point,yet you do get gunships,pavelows and AC-130 so I'll take that point back )
What fps has no tanks and 'dropships'? Is the better question I would imagine. How many times must I say this? I NEVER SAID NO TANKS OR DROPSHIPS! ARE YOU ALL DAFT OR JUST PLAYING IGNORANT?! LIMITS! I said LIMITS! I am NOT saying take them out. And I KNOW other games have them. They are also LIMITED in other FPS games, which is what I am suggesting HERE. And I said NO limits on regular matches, only in CORP battles. LEARN TO READ you illiterate b*astards. Lol I read your post where you were saying what fps genre game had a tank commando or dropships. I gave you an answer. No need to be angry. I didn't say you wanted the vehicles removed from game. You made a stupid statement. I showed you were it was flawed. Now take that butthurt somewhere else. Passing your angry monkeys on to me for nothing.
I never said no FPS games have tanks or commando's, you are misinterpreting what I said. I was saying FPS games are not tank command with some FPS elements. Which is what this is turning into. Have fun misinterpreting some more, you seem to enjoy it. |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.27 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tectonious Falcon wrote:. I've never seen that happen before. We have AV people in our corp and they had no trouble destroying vehicles.
Seeing as you are concerned about vehicle spamming and casual players being put off let's see what CCP will be putting in place in the future:
Matchmaking- casuals won't play with dedicated corps
ISK transfers- there will most likely be a form of exchange rate between Dust and EVE. 1 billion in EVE won't necessarily equal 1 billion In Dust.
Low sec and null sec- casuals will not be here. If anyone comes to these places then they should be prepared to deal with whatever is thrown at them.
I agree that there should be a limit on how many vehicles can be called in at once, but not on how many times that they an be replaced.
Some tanks cost over 1 million ISK so if they want to keep calling them in its their ISK not yours.
I could agree to that if they put in place a brief cooldown before you can call in another one after your first is destroyed. Maybe 15-30 seconds.
As for the division of players, I know what they plan to do. At the same time, AV and vehicles shouldn't be the main things needed in order for a corp to win a battle. Every type of player needs to be able to play their own role. It's almost impossible to play logi heal, logi repair, hmg, laser rifle, assult rifle, CQB, etc.,etc. when all that is on the field is vehicles with devastating turrets and cannons. If other players aren't as useful as AV's and vehicles (and possible really good snipers) in corp battles, why would any corp need them? If your running forge guns, you can jump out of a tank or dropship to hack an objective just as easily as any other weapon class, with the slight problem of being slower. But with 2 tanks covering you that speed disadvantage doesn't really matter all that much. |
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The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.28 14:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
RankRancid wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:RankRancid wrote:The Masked Overlord wrote:RankRancid wrote:Now that I think about it. How many fps games recently released don't have vehicles in them?
OP have you been playing crysis 2 lately?
Serious question like your one about what fps game has tanks and dropships( ok you get a point,yet you do get gunships,pavelows and AC-130 so I'll take that point back )
What fps has no tanks and 'dropships'? Is the better question I would imagine. How many times must I say this? I NEVER SAID NO TANKS OR DROPSHIPS! ARE YOU ALL DAFT OR JUST PLAYING IGNORANT?! LIMITS! I said LIMITS! I am NOT saying take them out. And I KNOW other games have them. They are also LIMITED in other FPS games, which is what I am suggesting HERE. And I said NO limits on regular matches, only in CORP battles. LEARN TO READ you illiterate b*astards. Lol I read your post where you were saying what fps genre game had a tank commando or dropships. I gave you an answer. No need to be angry. I didn't say you wanted the vehicles removed from game. You made a stupid statement. I showed you were it was flawed. Now take that butthurt somewhere else. Passing your angry monkeys on to me for nothing. I never said no FPS games have tanks or commando's, you are misinterpreting what I said. I was saying FPS games are not tank command with some FPS elements. Which is what this is turning into. Have fun misinterpreting some more, you seem to enjoy it. My AC- 130 badge in mw3 says you are wrong. The thousands that have died to my assault drone would not agree with you. I used a small amount of fps elements to call in the OP vehicle kill streaks and would build and build with 0 more kills from my gun in some games but yes I must be misinterpreting some more. The only game that doesn't have player controlled vehicles that can be 'OP' in skilled hands is crysis 2. Or am I wrong?
The AC-130 is also LIMITED by your ability to get them, and you can also only call in one at a time. Add to that the fact that the AC-130 has a very limited time in the air. Your a gunner with delusions of grandeur. That doesn't make MW3 not an FPS. The core game play of M3W stil requires FPS. Seriously, are you that oblivious to what I'm trying to say here? |
The Masked Overlord
19
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Posted - 2012.10.28 14:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:To be honest I don't see any mention of removing vehicles in The Mask's post. Only mentions of suggested limitations. In regards to the reported number of vehicles per team, I may have to slap the person who told you that number. So far there is a limit of 5 total vehicles per team and that includes lavs, tanks, and drop ships.
5? I've personally killed more than 5 LAV in matches by my self. Are you sure it's 5? |
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