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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.27 18:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you're a fellow heavy suit, please fill in your opinion of them and something useful to improve them.
At the current state of the heavy, it can hardly take punishment as is.
Armor has such a disadvantage at the moment that I often question why even have the standard/Type-A suits in this build because of how easily they're taken out, even by Militia equipment.
If anything, the heavies need to be MORE resistant to damage than they currently are because I barely survive a 1-on-1 match up with someone. Increase that to 2-on-1 and I have to hope at all.
What i'm getting at is this: If you want to make a suit that is designed to be able to take egregious amounts of punishment but then be slower than the speed of smell, make it so! The state of the heavy in my eyes is that the Armor heavy variant is borderline useless. There's really no reason to use it as far as i'm concerned. The Type-II / B are the dominating suits in the vast majority (read: all) suit classes and it blows my mind. I WANT to be able to use the Type-A heavy that I specced into, but I can't justifiably use it over the Type-II due to the fact that the armor makes no difference/survivability factor over the shield-heavy variant.
Now, onto the ideas:
- Make the armor more resistant to damage
-Not necessarily increasing the armor HP, but making the current armor more resistant to damage (as a built in resistance) instead of modules). -With this, I would be fine with decreasing movement speed as a trade-off to the added damage resistance. -If damage mods are being planned, how will they be working (apologies for the vague question)?
- Take away movement speed penalty in regards to TURNING speed.
-This is more of wishful thinking than anything, but if i'm getting shot in the back, by the time I turn around and react to what's happening, i'm already down to about 2/3 to 1/2 of my armor, so i'm at a stark disadvantage.
I'm not saying I want to be Superman (flying would be cool though) or be able to take 29847932403 rounds until i'm down to 2/3 armor, just asking that I have a chance to PLAY how the suit is intended to be played.
DISCLAIMER: I'm also for making the rest of the suits to be more survivable, but since I play a heavy, I focused mainly on that. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.27 19:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump for great justice. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.27 19:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
HEAT SoulRipper wrote:I'll give you a bump for grins and giggles.
There's something not right with all of this in regards to the armor and weapons. This could be due to the fact this is a beta and they're testing a lot of the components behind the scenes we're not seeing.
I can't put my finger on it, but there's a disconnect between the weapons and their skill level and the armors and their skill level. When I can run around in militia gear and still take people down who have nice sets...there's something wrong.
I don't have the master fix for this, but I agree, there's some refinement that is needed for all classes and all weapons/armors.
I want to be able to work for something and not have a cookie cutter scenario like all the other FPS.
(stay tuned and watch for ideas, don't be alarmed if you see smoke...that's just me thinking)
I do agree with you in regards to weapons, armor, and a disconnect happening. I don't feel that the weapons are working within they're Tiers. I understand that it's hard to distinguish with things like Weaponry skill levels, damage mods, etc.
But yes, refinement is needed and am sure is happening behind the scenes as we speak. Just adding in some suggestions as to what could be refined. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.30 21:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I can only guess you're not using it at optimum range. don't expect someone to not be able to take you out when they get the drop on you. First off, I run both HMG and Forge. Second, shedding some of the arrogance from your posts might help you in the long run. Thirdly, i'm not entirely certain you've ever played as a heavy before (disclaimer: I may be mistaken). Also, i'm not talking about weapon ranges, i'm talking mainly about suit survivability. Please keep up with the topic. ![Ugh](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_ugh.png)
To address this though, no, I don't use my weapons at less-than-optimal ranges. I know my own limitations and stick to situations that best benefit medium to short range encounters (HMG) or keep with my squad for back up when i'm using my Forge Gun. My Corp mates can attest to this. ![Cool](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png)
Quote:You need to be smart and make sure the bad guys are always in front of you. I have been playing as a heavy for 3 builds now, so I like to think I have a good grasp on what i'm doing. Not that i'm saying i'm perfect at the role mind you. As if this is something that is just that easy to make happen? Facing the likes of STB, the Imperfects, Your Corp mates, etc, they're never all just infront of you. I feel like this is a principle to be understood (that the enemy is can never be just "kept in front of you").
Quote:What you're asking for is to have your armour make up for your lack of strategy. Sorry m8. No need to be sorry. This statement implies that you know anything about my strategy. I'm not sure that i've ever played against you before so I don't know how you know anything about my "strategy."
Again, please read posts before replying. What i'm actually asking for is for heavies to be more damage resistant since their roles include but are not limited to: defensive play and anti-vehicle, of which both require huge amounts of damage to be taken when facing off with any given enemy.
Quote:Many complain that heavies are overpowered. Even pros attest to worrying at the sight of one making a move. I'm very interested to see who these "pros" are that you're referring too. Also, I would like to know what "many" are saying that makes a heavy overpowered? |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.30 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Valkyrie 1 wrote:Interesting tread while i agree with you that the heavy is a bit weak i dont think it is due to lack of armour it seems to be more due to its manner of defence or rather the current primary defence of most assult and scouts can simply strafe side to side while hip fireing to avoid getting shot a heavy can not as effectivly, this side to side movement apears to be more effective than the extra hit points of a heavy,
I dont know if its hit detection or wonky movement but some people seem to take far less damage than you put into them the heavy can not make use of this aspect.
Good point, I supposed I never took that into account. It's true that I can't out maneuver anything really, I can do a bit of a shimmy to get through some fights, but all-in-all it's nothing that is a huge asset to my survival.
Also, to clarify, i'm not asking for an increase in the armor hitpoints of the heavy suit, i'm asking for an increase to the inherent resistance to damage. Nothing extravagant, nothing that would deem it "OP", even though i'm sure someone would come out shouting that it is. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.30 22:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:You know there's no difference between 10% resist & 10% extra hp right? Except resists allow you to effectively repair faster right? That would translate into better survivability, wouldn't it? |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.30 22:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Valkyrie 1 wrote:Just had a thought regarding resistances while this is not resistances in traditional sence of 10% damage ressistance to all damage the new system would take into account the type of round being fired a SMG round would have very little impact due to a lack of velocity where as a rail slug would have high damage due to the penitration it would naturaly have from its velocity, this could go onto gernades being less usefull as its just shrapnel its not very good at penitrating heavy armour, same with missile splash damge where as a direct hit would do high damage,
dingdingdingdingding
Winner!
I love this idea! I'm not entirely sure how it would be implemented from a coding standpoint, mainly because I don't know anything about it. But I love the idea! |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.31 01:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riot Ruckus wrote: Personally, as a armor heavy, i have alot of success when i play to my strenghts, when i try to over extend my strenghts into my weakness, things go from bad to worse very quickly.
I'm familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the heavy suit (both shield heavy and armor heavy).
Quote:#1 Range- As long as i am within a low-low mid range, i can be successful with the HMG. To combat this, you will usually see me drving around in my Sup-die, hopping out when i am in satisfactory range, cutting down enemies, hopping back in my car, and rinseing and repeating.
I've seen only a handful of other heavies do this, more specifically HowDidThatTaste.
Quote:I also combat this by rolling with a squad, ARs are my best friend, Often times i will carry an AR over the HMG just for the added range in some maps.
I also roll with a squad of my corp mates. I've tried my hand at building a suit with an AR as the main weapon but am so used to using an HMG/Forge Gun that I haven't quite figured out how to play in that type of role.
Quote:#2 Skill tree- If you are trying to play a armor heavy and do not have mechanics at V yet, please do not post. As it stands in my higher end suits i rock about 1.15k total life, between my shields and armor, and that can be very hard to kill, not when 3 GEKS/+ are raining down the hurt on me.
TL;DR: Play better, skill better. No complaints here on the heavy, i can most times 2v1 most players.
I do have Mechanics V actually, so i'm glad I pass your requirements. I was unaware that I had criteria to meet.
I can't say off the top of my head what total amount of hit points I have between my armor and shields on my Type-A, but i'm fairly certain it's above 1,000 total.
"Play better, skill better" - What sort of insight is this supposed to be? Helpful? Constructive? Instead saying, "Hey, have you tried skilling up these particular skills?" At which point you would have listed them. Also, as with previous commenters, I don't believe i've ever played against you before (not that I can recall at least), so how could you say with any sort of certainty that I need to "play better?" I suppose it could be a fault on my end because I didn't make some point clear enough in my original post. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.10.31 23:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Darky Kuzarian wrote: They even made it worse by making all grade has the same amount of armor & shield they differ only in the number of slots which is bad and not worthy to pay an extra 50k is for at least they could made it so that armor/shield HP increases going up grade.
I have been using STD type-2 heavy suit in this build and i don't plan to upgrade it cause my passive skills makes me in bar with proto heavy dropsuits and am doing more then well against other upper suits so, i don't have the incentive to use the ADV or PROTO suits they are way too expensive wth minimum advantges over the STD one so CCP if you want to keep it this way i don't have a problem because i'll keep using the relatively cheap and efficient STD type-2 heavy.
I agree. I want to feel like the amount i'm paying is having more benefits to buying more advanced suits than just the additional CPU/PG and very few slots. For a heavy, this is not nearly enough to warrant upgrading versus the cost of upper tier suits. |
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The Polish Hammer
Doomheim
373
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Posted - 2012.11.01 00:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:A whole topic complaining about the downsides of a heavy dropsuit would be better spent complaining about paper beating rock.
Again...stunning addition.
So I suppose just keep hush hush about things we think need rebalancing? |
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