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Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.10.27 17:57:00 - [1] - Quote So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.27 18:14:00 - [2] - Quote I think missile turrets are the main problem. I think they need a lock on, and the lock on time should be based on signature radius. Right now they don't have a niche like blasters or rail guns...they're just superior to every other weapon.
Washlee UnReaL. 131	Posted - 2012.10.27 18:17:00 - [3] - Quote I wouldn't say its overpowered if a Forge Gun kills it in 1-3 shots depending on which forge gun. I would say it needs a bump , The point of a tank is for it to be super strong that infantry can't eliminate it.
The Polish Hammer Doomheim 373	Posted - 2012.10.27 18:55:00 - [4] - Quote Washlee wrote: I wouldn't say its overpowered if a Forge Gun kills it in 1-3 shots depending on which forge gun. I would say it needs a bump , The point of a tank is for it to be super strong that infantry can't eliminate it. Against Militia tanks? Because I haven't gone up against one decent tanker that has only taken 1-3 shots....
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.10.27 21:35:00 - [5] - Quote The Polish Hammer wrote: Washlee wrote: I wouldn't say its overpowered if a Forge Gun kills it in 1-3 shots depending on which forge gun. I would say it needs a bump , The point of a tank is for it to be super strong that infantry can't eliminate it. Against Militia tanks? Because I haven't gone up against one decent tanker that has only taken 1-3 shots.... One shot? Have you been reading Avenger's posts? It takes at least three for a militia tank(unless it's a breach Forge, but no one actually uses those). Plus the damn thing can scoot away so fast a lone Forger will never get those three shots off on a tanker worth his treads.
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.10.29 12:46:00 - [6] - Quote Why are you whining about HAVs they got nerfed to hell and 5 AV nades can take one out you need to shut up . A well fitted HAV costs around 400.000 ISK AND that's the whole point they are ARMORED.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:06:00 - [7] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game Your not a HAV user are you? They are not anti-dropship do you know how hard it is to hit a dropship with missiles or even the slow ass railgun? anti infantry so now they cant defend themselves from AV users you want the tank just to be able to fight other tanks? anti-LAV you do know most are milita and not even tanked so they are easy killable HAV overpowered? so then why can a 20k AV fit destroy a 750k+ HAV? Turret classes - Missiles are the middle ground between railgun and blaster, railgun is for pure dps against installations and other tanks, blaster mainly against MI but overall all 3 turrets can be used to kill anything and everything tbh, its all about how smart you are with the tank. Also last build the railgun had a large if not equal spalsh damage radius as the missile turrets, missiles should have spalsh damage its a missile not a bullet So nerf the repair rate now? 20k less AV fit using the breach forge gun 2000DPS PER shot while the shield booster atm quick match can rep back 1500 hp in the 5 pulses, so its not hard to kill a tank but you want to make it easier to kill the tank by making sure it reps even slower than now Lack of AV choices? av grenades/av mines/SL/forge guns, SL and forge guns let you hit the tank from the otherside of the map behind a hill which you will rarely see the AV ppl, forge gun massive DPS from a sniping distance, SL lock on and forget and will the current paper tanks all AV do hit hard How abou you invest 3mil SP into tanks 1st then drive them for well over 100matches then come back to me
MyLAV FEEDSon yourTEARS 7	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:23:00 - [8] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game Your not a HAV user are you? They are not anti-dropship do you know how hard it is to hit a dropship with missiles or even the slow ass railgun? anti infantry so now they cant defend themselves from AV users you want the tank just to be able to fight other tanks? anti-LAV you do know most are milita and not even tanked so they are easy killable HAV overpowered? so then why can a 20k AV fit destroy a 750k+ HAV? Turret classes - Missiles are the middle ground between railgun and blaster, railgun is for pure dps against installations and other tanks, blaster mainly against MI but overall all 3 turrets can be used to kill anything and everything tbh, its all about how smart you are with the tank. Also last build the railgun had a large if not equal spalsh damage radius as the missile turrets, missiles should have spalsh damage its a missile not a bullet So nerf the repair rate now? 20k less AV fit using the breach forge gun 2000DPS PER shot while the shield booster atm quick match can rep back 1500 hp in the 5 pulses, so its not hard to kill a tank but you want to make it easier to kill the tank by making sure it reps even slower than now Lack of AV choices? av grenades/av mines/SL/forge guns, SL and forge guns let you hit the tank from the otherside of the map behind a hill which you will rarely see the AV ppl, forge gun massive DPS from a sniping distance, SL lock on and forget and will the current paper tanks all AV do hit hard How abou you invest 3mil SP into tanks 1st then drive them for well over 100matches then come back to me Fristly, the tank does need a nerf. The idea that one tank can dominate a 16v16 player game concerns me greatly.
MyLAV FEEDSon yourTEARS 7	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:29:00 - [9] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Why are you whining about HAVs they got nerfed to hell and 5 AV nades can take one out you need to shut up . A well fitted HAV costs around 400.000 ISK AND that's the whole point they are ARMORED. Explain to me why everyone should not just tech up into tanks next build??? They slay better then my assault suit, and they move faster. Furthermore, I can't dominate a game by myself. FPS are about balance. I agree a tank should effect the outcome of the game, but it should not dominate the game
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:32:00 - [10] - Quote MyLAV FEEDSon yourTEARS wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game Your not a HAV user are you? They are not anti-dropship do you know how hard it is to hit a dropship with missiles or even the slow ass railgun? anti infantry so now they cant defend themselves from AV users you want the tank just to be able to fight other tanks? anti-LAV you do know most are milita and not even tanked so they are easy killable HAV overpowered? so then why can a 20k AV fit destroy a 750k+ HAV? Turret classes - Missiles are the middle ground between railgun and blaster, railgun is for pure dps against installations and other tanks, blaster mainly against MI but overall all 3 turrets can be used to kill anything and everything tbh, its all about how smart you are with the tank. Also last build the railgun had a large if not equal spalsh damage radius as the missile turrets, missiles should have spalsh damage its a missile not a bullet So nerf the repair rate now? 20k less AV fit using the breach forge gun 2000DPS PER shot while the shield booster atm quick match can rep back 1500 hp in the 5 pulses, so its not hard to kill a tank but you want to make it easier to kill the tank by making sure it reps even slower than now Lack of AV choices? av grenades/av mines/SL/forge guns, SL and forge guns let you hit the tank from the otherside of the map behind a hill which you will rarely see the AV ppl, forge gun massive DPS from a sniping distance, SL lock on and forget and will the current paper tanks all AV do hit hard How abou you invest 3mil SP into tanks 1st then drive them for well over 100matches then come back to me Fristly, the tank does need a nerf. The idea that one tank can dominate a 16v16 player game concerns me greatly. 1 tank cannot dominate an entire match, all you need is a forge gun

Akua Shuzen Wrath of Omnipotent Beings 0	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:47:00 - [11] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: MyLAV FEEDSon yourTEARS wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game Your not a HAV user are you? They are not anti-dropship do you know how hard it is to hit a dropship with missiles or even the slow ass railgun? anti infantry so now they cant defend themselves from AV users you want the tank just to be able to fight other tanks? anti-LAV you do know most are milita and not even tanked so they are easy killable HAV overpowered? so then why can a 20k AV fit destroy a 750k+ HAV? Turret classes - Missiles are the middle ground between railgun and blaster, railgun is for pure dps against installations and other tanks, blaster mainly against MI but overall all 3 turrets can be used to kill anything and everything tbh, its all about how smart you are with the tank. Also last build the railgun had a large if not equal spalsh damage radius as the missile turrets, missiles should have spalsh damage its a missile not a bullet So nerf the repair rate now? 20k less AV fit using the breach forge gun 2000DPS PER shot while the shield booster atm quick match can rep back 1500 hp in the 5 pulses, so its not hard to kill a tank but you want to make it easier to kill the tank by making sure it reps even slower than now Lack of AV choices? av grenades/av mines/SL/forge guns, SL and forge guns let you hit the tank from the otherside of the map behind a hill which you will rarely see the AV ppl, forge gun massive DPS from a sniping distance, SL lock on and forget and will the current paper tanks all AV do hit hard How abou you invest 3mil SP into tanks 1st then drive them for well over 100matches then come back to me Fristly, the tank does need a nerf. The idea that one tank can dominate a 16v16 player game concerns me greatly. 1 tank cannot dominate an entire match, all you need is a forge gun One tank can't dominate a 16v16 match? Bullshit. 1 Gunnlogi with main missile turret and 2 smaller turrets demolish everything and anything. I was in a game last night where we got oushed back and spawn trapped by 2 HAVs at both spawns. People were using swarms and a couple forges but they backed up, repped, then started firing again all within 20 seconds. HAVs are too OP when it comes to missile launchers, large or small. You're probably one of the HAV users that DOES smash a match with a Gunnlogi missile launcher, you're just not admitting it. All missile launchers = nerf Tanks = agree with OP.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:51:00 - [12] - Quote Akua Shuzen wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: MyLAV FEEDSon yourTEARS wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game Your not a HAV user are you? They are not anti-dropship do you know how hard it is to hit a dropship with missiles or even the slow ass railgun? anti infantry so now they cant defend themselves from AV users you want the tank just to be able to fight other tanks? anti-LAV you do know most are milita and not even tanked so they are easy killable HAV overpowered? so then why can a 20k AV fit destroy a 750k+ HAV? Turret classes - Missiles are the middle ground between railgun and blaster, railgun is for pure dps against installations and other tanks, blaster mainly against MI but overall all 3 turrets can be used to kill anything and everything tbh, its all about how smart you are with the tank. Also last build the railgun had a large if not equal spalsh damage radius as the missile turrets, missiles should have spalsh damage its a missile not a bullet So nerf the repair rate now? 20k less AV fit using the breach forge gun 2000DPS PER shot while the shield booster atm quick match can rep back 1500 hp in the 5 pulses, so its not hard to kill a tank but you want to make it easier to kill the tank by making sure it reps even slower than now Lack of AV choices? av grenades/av mines/SL/forge guns, SL and forge guns let you hit the tank from the otherside of the map behind a hill which you will rarely see the AV ppl, forge gun massive DPS from a sniping distance, SL lock on and forget and will the current paper tanks all AV do hit hard How abou you invest 3mil SP into tanks 1st then drive them for well over 100matches then come back to me Fristly, the tank does need a nerf. The idea that one tank can dominate a 16v16 player game concerns me greatly. 1 tank cannot dominate an entire match, all you need is a forge gun One tank can't dominate a 16v16 match? Bullshit. 1 Gunnlogi with main missile turret and 2 smaller turrets demolish everything and anything. I was in a game last night where we got oushed back and spawn trapped by 2 HAVs at both spawns. People were using swarms and a couple forges but they backed up, repped, then started firing again all within 20 seconds. HAVs are too OP when it comes to missile launchers, large or small. You're probably one of the HAV users that DOES smash a match with a Gunnlogi missile launcher, you're just not admitting it. All missile launchers = nerf Tanks = agree with OP. All you need is 1 guy with a forge to put some hurt on the tank, not too mention will always be a few with SL Also depends if you play against randoms, most randoms are idiots hence why i can roll around the map and put you back into the spawn but even as a HAV user i dont always roll around the map and tend to stick around certain areas just because i know at anytime it can get popped easy by forges
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.29 17:42:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: So as of now, I am writing this post while my game is running, I'm hiding in my team's red-zone base while three enemy tanks are roaming the game, insta-killing anything and everything with a single shot from their missile turrets. HAVs had their nerfs a long time ago, I know, but I am not asking for a nerf to HAVs, I'm asking that they are completely reworked. HAVs need to be completely changed from what they are now to a specific thing. What do I mean by a specific thing? Look at it this way: A logi is a support unit, it sacrifices armor, shields, and a secondary weapon slot to become a support unit, assault suits are exactly what their name says they are, they assault by sacrificing the ability to have a unique function by rounding out all stats to medium. HAVs, however, are everything that a vehicle can be at once. Anti-infantry, Anti-tank, Anti-LAV, Anti-dropship, has greater speed than the fastest dropsuit, has three weapons that can be fired simultaneously, more, more, etc. etc. The HAV is a jack-of-all-trades. What is my point? Simple. The HAV is overpowered. Yeah, I said it, but if you deny it's true, you are completely blind. I blame the HAV's overpowered-ness partly on the complete unbalance of turret classes. There are blasters for infantry, railguns for anti-vehicle, and missile turrets for doing both twice as well as the other two. The first thing needed to rework the HAV is to fix this. Missile turrets need to decide what they are meant to do- anti-infantry or anti-vehicle- if they were meant to do both, they need to have a much lower effectiveness than the two specified turrets. Basically, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as a blaster, and half as much damage to vehicles as a railgun, plus, it needs a smaller blast radius. Need I say more on this? Another overpowered aspect of the HAV is its ability to repair itself so effectively. Obviously I am not going to say they should not be able to repair themselves at all, but having a shield booster that can regenerate shields faster than a large blaster turret can do damage is going over the line. Shield boosters and armor repair units need to repair their shields/armor to the same amount as they do now, but over a much longer period. Basically all this does is make them repair slower. Another problem with the HAV is lack of AV choices. There are swarms for armor and forge guns for shields. There is zero middle-ground, tanks get missile turrets as a middle ground between blasters and railguns, so why can't AV units get a weapon that is a middle-ground between swarms and forges? Enough said. There needs to be a two HAV maximum per team cap in both skirmish and ambush, once again, enough said. I cant even say that this is enough to fix tanks, that's just how f*cked up they currently are, but it's a starting point. TL;DR- HAVs are overpowered, to fix this we need: -Fixed turret class issues -Less effective repair rates -More AV power -Less tanks per game No vehicle limitations. People with vehicles have to spec into those and spend money on them the same as anyone with guns. As to Large Missile Turrets, OP isn't strong enough. They tear through Gallente tanks with 1-2 volleys no matter your armor count, and the Accelerated ones blap infantry on the other side of the map with perfect accuracy. AV is more than powerful enough as it is. A tank should be able to take a lot of AV and keep on rolling. You just need to be more clever about your AV, like setting traps with proxi mines and pitching AV nades from behind cover. Those two things are actually the most dangerous to HAVs, with the Forge Gun being a close second. On the subject of AV weapons, we need more of them. Trying to use the Swarm Launcher as the universal lock-on AV weapons against all targets clearly isn't working. Its reasonable against HAVs, can't touch Dropships and when it does one rocket of the whole bunch will send it spiraling to it's death, and LAVs get blapped by the Militia one.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.29 18:09:00 - [14] - Quote i think if tanks are going to be tougher they should be much much slower. right now they are way too fast to be taking the shots that they are taking. it takes alot of coordination to take a tank down and even then depending on location the tank will still just drive away like the cowards they are.
angelarch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2012.10.29 23:16:00 - [15] - Quote i'm kinda hoping that there will be a natural counter coming along, like in real life a ground attack jet or helicopter will decimate tanks easily. so i don't mind them being so powerful if when 'fighters' are added they can swoop in and kill tanks then fly off dumping chaff and flares to evade the swarms or AA whatever. Maybe the MTACs will be good tank hunter killers? not sure at this point. Wish we could be testing all of it at once, and not in pieces like we currently are. EDIT: oh, and about forge AV counter, this is good up to a point. In my last few matches where tanks were pwning meh i noticed that they were traveling with at least a few infantry nearby helping to clear the path of any tricky merc AVs. This made me very happy to see good squad tactics like in real life, infantry helping to protect the vehicle when in a built up area with lots of places for the enemy to hide. It also made me very dead when i tried to do anything to hurt the tank lol:) - If CCP allows the LAV passenger to fire his weapon, I'd LOVE to try some high speed LAV drive by on a tank with the passenger shooting a forge out the side as we race by. Probably suicidal but might be fun:)
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.29 23:28:00 - [16] - Quote angelarch wrote: i'm kinda hoping that there will be a natural counter coming along, like in real life a ground attack jet or helicopter will decimate tanks easily. so i don't mind them being so powerful if when 'fighters' are added they can swoop in and kill tanks then fly off dumping chaff and flares to evade the swarms or AA whatever. Maybe the MTACs will be good tank hunter killers? not sure at this point. Wish we could be testing all of it at once, and not in pieces like we currently are. a RPG is a great counter to most vehicles. only the most heavy tanks are resistant to the damages. only problem is you have people whining that their multi million isk coffins are being stopped by 4-5 guys with swarms and he was caught with his pants down because he thought he could bowl everyone over with his tank without resistance. and when they add another vehicle, people will pick it and pump all their points into it and someone will just pump their points into anti-vehicle and the anti-vehicle will win or be unstoppable face rolling kills without any effort.
angelarch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 93	Posted - 2012.10.30 00:04:00 - [17] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: . . . and when they add another vehicle, people will pick it and pump all their points into it and someone will just pump their points into anti-vehicle and the anti-vehicle will win or be unstoppable face rolling kills without any effort. good point. I wonder if there is a possibility to add a powerful AV vehicle to the game that can ONLY kill vehicles and not mercs (or is poor at killing mercs). Then there could be a triangle sort of balance, for example: (imaginary example below, not a request:) - If a ground attack jet was added that was only good at killing tanks, not mercs. (ie. lock on smart missiles, no guns) tanks good at killing mercs, not jet. mercs good at killing jet with AA stinger type unit, but not tank. == three way cycle of life.
Obama DAT Doomheim 389	Posted - 2012.10.30 00:06:00 - [18] - Quote I find the unlimited ammo of a tanks turrets to be the most annoying thing. How can such a powerful weapon have unlimited ammo?
Joe Darkwater Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2012.10.30 00:19:00 - [19] - Quote All of you have to do is to remember the costs of a tank. 200k for the vehicle alone another 250k-800k for a decent fitting. That means the tank needs to survive at least 3 matches to get the profit of someone using full militia gear. Also he has to spend about 2 million ISK into skills to fit that thing. And this is just the T1 crap. Look at the prices for a marauder (1.2 million) or a black ops (2.6 million). Those prices are just for the vehicle itself. Those tanks arent tough enough yet! While it seems to be no big problem to get a full fitting into a dropsuit, PG and CPU of a tank doesnt allow that luxury. So there's alot of planning and love for details in each and every tank on the Battlefield. Each loss is a horror and those forgeguns? You got ONE guy with a fitting worth of maybe 30k get into close combat with a tank and it doesnt matter what the tank's fitting is, the forgegun just melts your shield/armor in no time. Shieldboosters and armor repairers are totally useless if you need 3 minutes to repair what one guy can do to you in less then one second. However: Those large missile turrets need to be fixed. They are great vs infantry, awesome vs. tanks, unstoppable vs. LAV. Also they require the least amount of PG which means that there's more room for other stuff, since HUGE amounts of PG is needed for everything useful. Same goes for the small missile turrets. Waaaaay too much damage and again the little requirements. Those Missiles should be anti-air (with lock-on), railguns anti-tank and blaster anti-infantry. I guess thats the way it was planned but CCP failed - obviously. Some calculations to prove my point: The worst small missile launcher deals 218dps and costs 6000 ISK The best small railgun deals 275 dps and costs 114k The worst large Missile launcher deals 624dps and costs 24k The best large railgun deals 622 dps and costs 466k ISK Dont forget: Missile launcher also have bigger and better splash damage and radius and require less Power on the tank. While the railgun needs to charge up to fire, the missiles take a while to arrive. In both cases the opponent has time to get in cover so thats okay. I'd like to add that the rate of fire of the large missile launcher and the large railgun is pretty similar. The fact that most tank drivers go for missiles is no surprise at all. It's also absolutlely no surprise that most of them are damn careful on the battlefield. Once you've been noticed everybody spawns with some AV ****. One wrong move and half a million bucks is gone - if you were so lucky to drive the cheapest tank possible. You also can loose about 5 million ISK in less than a second. Conclusion: Rework PG of tanks, nerf the forge gun damage and make tanks a much more durable. Also make either missile launchers more useless or Railgun/Blasters way more effective. Everyone that comes to another conclusion has never driven a tank before or never used non-militia AV stuff.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.30 00:20:00 - [20] - Quote Obama DAT wrote: I find the unlimited ammo of a tanks turrets to be the most annoying thing. How can such a powerful weapon have unlimited ammo? space magic

Conraire Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 52	Posted - 2012.10.30 06:11:00 - [21] - Quote For the Bone heads that go oh tanks should be super armored and able tank anything short of another tank or whole unit of swarms/forgers. An RPG 27 (RPG7s big brother) Costs around $500. The m1 Abrams tank costs $6.21m US. That $500 RPG can tank out that $6.2m tank in 1 to 2 hits, they're made to penetrate armor 750mm thick. Thats just some food for thought. Some Issues with HAV's and turrets specifically. Blasters are balanced by heat generation limiting firing time. Little fast on the large turret turn speed, but otherwise they're balanced, maybe a bit short on range for the size of the large gun. Railgun turrets are weaker than they should be, not enough range, the large turrets projectile is almost slower than accelerated missiles. Slow firing, and produce heat during auto firing. Plus no more blast damage from the shell hitting near someone. Missile turrets are currently overpowered, especially the small turrets. Large missile turret is about useless close range from my experience, but at mid range or in a spot where you can just bombard a spawn point it's absurd... But still, the biggest borken weapon in the game, short of AR's is the small missile turret. 1 or 2 Dropships with missile turrets and competent gunners, and the enemy team can do nothing to retaliate, as the dropship gunners can take out tanks and LAVs with the missiles just as easily as they can suits.
E-Dino Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.10.30 09:09:00 - [22] - Quote Gotta love these tank threads! Its always the same arguement going on. "tank needs a little nerf" then the other side says "tanks not strong enough, AV needs nerf". To be honest the only thing making tanks overpowered is the rep units, it makes them way too damn durable. Whoever says "well I paid X amount of money for this so its justfied that it gives me the power to wreck anyone who looks at me wrong" is very wrong. Yes, I have used an AV fit better than militia, infact way better and the amount of work it takes to take down a tanks really makes me question the effectiveness of AV fit.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.30 10:56:00 - [23] - Quote Conraire wrote: For the Bone heads that go oh tanks should be super armored and able tank anything short of another tank or whole unit of swarms/forgers. An RPG 27 (RPG7s big brother) Costs around $500. The m1 Abrams tank costs $6.21m US. That $500 RPG can tank out that $6.2m tank in 1 to 2 hits, they're made to penetrate armor 750mm thick. Thats just some food for thought. . Challenger 2 tank took 70 odd RPGs and the soliders inside were safe as houses
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.10.30 12:26:00 - [24] - Quote OP is butthurt idiot, tanks are already very weak to even militia AV. You can't fix the turrets so they are actually balanced and leave the hulls so weak. Fixing the maps solves so many more problems though. Say yes to Infantry-scale objectives!
Specter RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 52	Posted - 2012.10.30 14:54:00 - [25] - Quote Alright, time to add my couple of cents to this here topic Honestly, as a Proto Forge gunner that runs with a Grimlock Guristas Assault Forge Gun, it only takes 3, yeah thats right 3, shots to take out a single Gunnlogi or Madrugar. I've done it before and I'll say it again. It isn't THAT friggin hard to take out a tank, and as a tank driver of a Madrugar Armor Tank, they are near **** when it comes to someone like me. I got 6k Armor and 2k Shields on my Madrugar and I can rip that to nothing with 3 shots of my own forge gun. They are completely weak to those who can actually Do something about the tanks rather than sit around in spawn and get murdered by them. I've OHKOed a tank before with my Breach and it was very fun looking at that militia drop like a fly. Honestly, the Breach ain't the best thing to take out a tank since it doesn't have the DPS unless you can take out the tank in the single hit you have, but thats not the topic here today. It isn't the tank drivers fault at all for destroying you guys. If you don't have properly fitted AV guys around, then you WILL get destroyed like as if you were paper going against a machete. But if you had a single GOOD forge gunner, they would run with their tail between their legs. Hell the last time 2 Tanks went at me, they were 2 Gunnlogis by the way, I took them out like nothing in 2 clips. Now if you say thats broken, then you are the one whom is the blind one. They are easy to take out if you are properly fitted and smart enough to get around them and get them from behind or even head on. TL;DR - If you had ONE Proto Forge gunner on your team, you wouldn't have this hastle against vehicles. I've done it before, and I received a beautiful ammount of ISK for it. Tanks aren't OP, its just you don't specialize specificly to counter them nor does any of your team mates.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.30 15:16:00 - [26] - Quote If you're going to complain about tanks being OP, maybe you should first look at ways you can successfully counter a tank. I my experience fighting in tanks, the maps where we've dominated have always been those where there was no real response to the fact that there was a tank on the field. I.E there was maybe one AV guy chasing us, if at all. So the tank could continue rolling around the map, murdering people and gathering points all tasty like because no one on the other team was doing anything about it. On the other hand, on intense matches, the tank was successfully contained to certain areas of the map that had been cleared by infantry due to successful AV work by the enemy. AV 'nades blocking paths, SL people behind mountains or infrastructure, or forge gunners making a pass at us would keep the tank on the defensive. For those of you who call tank drivers "cowards" for getting behind cover and fixing the tank, I'd like to respond by calling you idiots. If you spent the resources it takes to fully pimp out a tank, you can be damn sure you'd be protective of it too. The way I see it, the only people who call for tanks to be nerfed are those who have had their team destroyed by tanks, and yet have absolutely no experience driving them. So my advice is twofold: first, play with better teams. I ** you not, any half-decent team in DUST 514 knows how to deal with tanks, and will not consider them OP by any stretch. If you blame the fact that your team was decimated on tanks being OP, then you're either covering for your team's inadequacies, which is stupid, or you played with a bunch of randoms, which is almost as stupid. The second part of my advice: get some experience with tanks. Jump into a friend's HAV when they've spawned it, or try to invest in getting your own. You can't say something is OP just because you get killed by it a lot. That's determined by people who actually use** the thing in question, HAV in this case. If you're so dead-set on calling for HAVs, I suggest you try one for yourself. I almost guarantee your mind will be changed.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.30 21:27:00 - [27] - Quote not sure if OP is srs
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.30 21:30:00 - [28] - Quote Specter RND wrote: Alright, time to add my couple of cents to this here topic Honestly, as a Proto Forge gunner that runs with a Grimlock Guristas Assault Forge Gun, it only takes 3, yeah thats right 3, shots to take out a single Gunnlogi or Madrugar. I've done it before and I'll say it again. It isn't THAT friggin hard to take out a tank, and as a tank driver of a Madrugar Armor Tank, they are near **** when it comes to someone like me. I got 6k Armor and 2k Shields on my Madrugar and I can rip that to nothing with 3 shots of my own forge gun. They are completely weak to those who can actually Do something about the tanks rather than sit around in spawn and get murdered by them. I've OHKOed a tank before with my Breach and it was very fun looking at that militia drop like a fly. Honestly, the Breach ain't the best thing to take out a tank since it doesn't have the DPS unless you can take out the tank in the single hit you have, but thats not the topic here today. It isn't the tank drivers fault at all for destroying you guys. If you don't have properly fitted AV guys around, then you WILL get destroyed like as if you were paper going against a machete. But if you had a single GOOD forge gunner, they would run with their tail between their legs. Hell the last time 2 Tanks went at me, they were 2 Gunnlogis by the way, I took them out like nothing in 2 clips. Now if you say thats broken, then you are the one whom is the blind one. They are easy to take out if you are properly fitted and smart enough to get around them and get them from behind or even head on. TL;DR - If you had ONE Proto Forge gunner on your team, you wouldn't have this hastle against vehicles. I've done it before, and I received a beautiful ammount of ISK for it. Tanks aren't OP, its just you don't specialize specificly to counter them nor does any of your team mates. +1 i have ppl within my corp and alliance that can solo tanks because they are specifically trained into AV im almost positive logibro doesnt have any sort of high end AV gear and positive he doesnt work with another AV guy who is decently fit to get tanks down
Bzeer Ra Jedi Knights. 2	Posted - 2012.10.31 02:59:00 - [29] - Quote Orbital strikes, av grenades, forge guns, swarms, rail gun and missile installations, proximity mines, and enemy tanks o my, plenty of things can take out a single tank. Two or three tanks on the other hand, and I got to say, I feel your pain.
Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2012.10.31 09:52:00 - [30] - Quote These threads **** me right off. Un-informed idiots should not be allowed to post on any balance issues imo. Tanks are far from OP in their current state. I'd even go as far to say that armour tanks are completely useless this build. I still say we need an option to see people's skills so we know for sure it's BS. Even when tanks were "invincible" they died if you bothered to spec into AV and work as a team. The amount of numbskulls running around with militia swarms crying was a joke. I can't tell you the amount of times I'd scope in on some swarm guy with my rail and it said "Shock - Heavy". Pezley and Kain were literally the only people I had respect for that build as they bothered to counter me with actual skill, tactics and teamwork. Guess what?, it worked!. Shock Horror It's about bloody time they removed all militia AV. I'm tired of scrubs whining it doesn't work, so make them spec into something instead of giving them a FREE option to cry about.... Anybody with half a brain knows full well how OP the forge is this build and those who don't are simply keeping quiet as it's easy mode.



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