DUST Search - [Information] Ninja Knifing 101

Maken Tosch wrote:

Tien TheSecond wrote:

Quote:

Exploit Tunnel Vision

Snipers have excessive tunnel vision. You cannot possibly imagine how narrow a sniper's field of vision is. They are so busy and focus minded on shooting that one dude running on the opposite side of the map that they rarely pay attention to their surroundings. Just sneaking up from the side is enough to get behind then without showing up on their minimap if your profile is low enough.

This is not true, as proven by reports of (and my personal encounters) you getting repeatedly slaughtered for this thinking error. We pay close attention to two things: our mini maps and our sector of fire. You should remind the reader that they are doing their team two disservices while ninja knifing: they are useless in not eliminating threats to their team and are consistently feeding the enemy kills. For many of us, people heading up the hills to attack are nothing more then a minor setback. A good example: for every 1 attempt on my clone, I've killed 5 of your teammates. For every successful attempt on a clone, I've nailed a good 30 to 40 enemies over the course of that day.

In short, remind your readers that this is a personal amusement and not an effective tactic.

Um no. From personal experience I have repeatedly snuck up on snipers from the side successfully even to this day. Your mini map is only as useful as your field of vision and whether or not one of your buddies spotted me before I got to you. Also, just because you don't think knifers are effective it doesn't mean I will just give up. I will not give regardless of how frustrating it is for me. I will be the best knifer and there is nothing you can do to stop me from teaching others who wish to pursue this niche skill set. If anyone is charging you from the side and still getting spotted by you then that means that particular knifer is not doing it right.

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Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.27 03:10:00 - [1] - Quote The following information is from the links below (my diaries) since this new forum section is appropriate for this kind of information and I like to take the opportunity to re-post them here while the clutter is still minimal. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=353546 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363744 Head for the Hills The maps may change in terms of overall placement of the structures made by either the NPC system or the player-run corps, but the terrain never changes. The tall ridges help mask your profile from much of the mercs roaming around, but you are still vulnerable to those special mercs that like to live in the hills like you. So avoid the roads that you see in the mountains as much as possible. If you have to cross them, make sure they are cleared because as soon as you are spotted you will light up in the TACNET for everyone else to see and there goes your element of surprise. You have a major advantage once you reach the peak of the ridges. The peaks allow you to quickly slide down and pounce on a merc down below without loosing much stamina. The ridges also provide an near endless list of practical hiding spots for your drop uplink. That way, if you die to a merc, you can surprise them with a sudden reappearance as they usually let their guard down after killing you thinking it will be a long while before you come back when in fact you just respawned right behind them. Besides, not that many mercs waste their time looking for enemy uplinks in the mountains as most of them are too busy capping objectives and holding them. Exploit Tunnel Vision Snipers have excessive tunnel vision. You cannot possibly imagine how narrow a sniper's field of vision is. They are so busy and focus minded on shooting that one dude running on the opposite side of the map that they rarely pay attention to their surroundings. Just sneaking up from the side is enough to get behind then without showing up on their minimap if your profile is low enough. You Can't Catch M... what? There are also the kind of snipers that perch themselves within the "supposedly safe" RED ZONE in a skirmish match. Here is where they get really complacent because they think that no one is dumb enough to sneak up behind them in the red zone. Therefore they don't really check their six at all. If your suit is fitted to be fast enough, you might be able to run in fast enough to sneak up behind them, kill them, and then run back out before you run out of time. I was able to successfully do this twice long ago. Unfortunately I have not been able to replicate it since then because I don't see snipers hanging out in that area anymore. I must have taken away their sense of security. Nothing says "you're not safe anywhere" than killing a merc in the safety of his red zone with a knife. It's almost as exhilarating as crushing a few mercs with an LAV in the red zone (still my favorite). This brings me to my next point. Study Red Zones You'd be surprised how much you can learn from understanding the red zones and how easily you can pass through them. Since snipers tend to keep their backs towards the edge of the red zone, you might catch one from behind. These Are My Uplinks! If you intend to carry drop uplinks, make sure you place them in locations that are for your benefit only. You need them to sneak up on other snipers and therefore they will serve no use to a friendly assault merc who has to stay close to the objectives if the uplinks are placed far out into the mountains. Unless of course you have a buddy who is also hunting snipers. By Yourself =Revised= As per OgTheEnigma, sometimes it's best to take advantage of a group. The heat of a battle can sometimes provide the perfect distraction to get around an enemy. Just pray the lag doesn't hit you. Last but not least and very important... Listen More If you have a good enough surround sound headset you will be able to listen in on the direction from the sniper shots are coming from. This is especially helpful when you are slowly crouch walking your way through the jagged ridges and want to know where the sniper is without exposing yourself. It's like a form of echo location only you're not giving away pings. If you can master this, then you will you be lethal. Bait - APPENDED as of 1 Dec 2012 After playing in Line Harvest several times so far I have learned that baiting is a very important. The CRU in the Northwest part of the map is a prime example. If you time it right and are familiar with the spawn points from the CRU, you can safely kill and hack in the process. During the Server Swarm Event today I was able to kill up to 5 assaults in one go with this method in Line Harvest. It felt awesome. So much power a knife gives to its skilled handler.
Tien TheSecond Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 198	Posted - 2012.10.27 19:38:00 - [2] - Quote Quote: Exploit Tunnel Vision Snipers have excessive tunnel vision. You cannot possibly imagine how narrow a sniper's field of vision is. They are so busy and focus minded on shooting that one dude running on the opposite side of the map that they rarely pay attention to their surroundings. Just sneaking up from the side is enough to get behind then without showing up on their minimap if your profile is low enough. This is not true, as proven by reports of (and my personal encounters) you getting repeatedly slaughtered for this thinking error. We pay close attention to two things: our mini maps and our sector of fire. You should remind the reader that they are doing their team two disservices while ninja knifing: they are useless in not eliminating threats to their team and are consistently feeding the enemy kills. For many of us, people heading up the hills to attack are nothing more then a minor setback. A good example: for every 1 attempt on my clone, I've killed 5 of your teammates. For every successful attempt on a clone, I've nailed a good 30 to 40 enemies over the course of that day. In short, remind your readers that this is a personal amusement and not an effective tactic.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.28 02:46:00 - [3] - Quote Tien TheSecond wrote: Quote: Exploit Tunnel Vision Snipers have excessive tunnel vision. You cannot possibly imagine how narrow a sniper's field of vision is. They are so busy and focus minded on shooting that one dude running on the opposite side of the map that they rarely pay attention to their surroundings. Just sneaking up from the side is enough to get behind then without showing up on their minimap if your profile is low enough. This is not true, as proven by reports of (and my personal encounters) you getting repeatedly slaughtered for this thinking error. We pay close attention to two things: our mini maps and our sector of fire. You should remind the reader that they are doing their team two disservices while ninja knifing: they are useless in not eliminating threats to their team and are consistently feeding the enemy kills. For many of us, people heading up the hills to attack are nothing more then a minor setback. A good example: for every 1 attempt on my clone, I've killed 5 of your teammates. For every successful attempt on a clone, I've nailed a good 30 to 40 enemies over the course of that day. In short, remind your readers that this is a personal amusement and not an effective tactic. Um no. From personal experience I have repeatedly snuck up on snipers from the side successfully even to this day. Your mini map is only as useful as your field of vision and whether or not one of your buddies spotted me before I got to you. Also, just because you don't think knifers are effective it doesn't mean I will just give up. I will not give regardless of how frustrating it is for me. I will be the best knifer and there is nothing you can do to stop me from teaching others who wish to pursue this niche skill set. If anyone is charging you from the side and still getting spotted by you then that means that particular knifer is not doing it right.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.28 02:57:00 - [4] - Quote PS: The shadow rendering of the graphics is hindering much of our hiding ability and let's not forget that CCP intends to bring in cloak modules.
Tien TheSecond Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 198	Posted - 2012.10.28 04:20:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Tien TheSecond wrote: Quote: Exploit Tunnel Vision Snipers have excessive tunnel vision. You cannot possibly imagine how narrow a sniper's field of vision is. They are so busy and focus minded on shooting that one dude running on the opposite side of the map that they rarely pay attention to their surroundings. Just sneaking up from the side is enough to get behind then without showing up on their minimap if your profile is low enough. This is not true, as proven by reports of (and my personal encounters) you getting repeatedly slaughtered for this thinking error. We pay close attention to two things: our mini maps and our sector of fire. You should remind the reader that they are doing their team two disservices while ninja knifing: they are useless in not eliminating threats to their team and are consistently feeding the enemy kills. For many of us, people heading up the hills to attack are nothing more then a minor setback. A good example: for every 1 attempt on my clone, I've killed 5 of your teammates. For every successful attempt on a clone, I've nailed a good 30 to 40 enemies over the course of that day. In short, remind your readers that this is a personal amusement and not an effective tactic. Um no. From personal experience I have repeatedly snuck up on snipers from the side successfully even to this day. Your mini map is only as useful as your field of vision and whether or not one of your buddies spotted me before I got to you. Also, just because you don't think knifers are effective it doesn't mean I will just give up. I will not give regardless of how frustrating it is for me. I will be the best knifer and there is nothing you can do to stop me from teaching others who wish to pursue this niche skill set. If anyone is charging you from the side and still getting spotted by you then that means that particular knifer is not doing it right. Then you're doing it wrong. PS: Cloaking means invisible, not attacking while invisible. IE black ops and recon...should really look into what cloaking in EVE is.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.28 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote I know what cloaking is all about in Eve. I play Eve. I have roamed in null sec solo in my stealth bomber. Also, you and I don't know what mechanics the DUST cloaking mods are going to use. Until then, reserve your judgment.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:03:00 - [7] - Quote I just had a thought. How about we make do a compromise? I will do my best to convince the knifing players to stop attacking from the side and instead just strictly attack from behind if, and only if you do your best to convince your sniping players to start paying attention to their immediate surroundings. If you don't agree, then I will teach those snipers for you by killing them from the sides until they learn to do so. We ninja knifers are doing a service for the snipers by forcibly making them adapt to our presence. By the way, if efficiency in killing players was a factor then I wouldn't need to use a knife when a gun does a better job. But this is not about kd ratios but rather the thrill of the hunt. Besides, we ninja knifers like a challenge. So be glad we are helping you get rid of the inefficient snipers so that all that remains are the pro snipers. That way, the challenge can truly begin.
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 129	Posted - 2012.10.29 19:27:00 - [8] - Quote This myth that hill snipers do nothing is a joke. The only maps where they are ineffective are Ashland, where there are no hills to hide and Skim Junction, where B and C are protected in a high walled compound and the map is huge. In Manus Peak, Hill snipers can help you dominate a game (Try holding A and C, little SOBs make it so you have to move in circles constantly). In Line Harvest, they are rather effective as well. Snipers ain't tanks, but they are an asset.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.29 19:40:00 - [9] - Quote @Lavirac Nobody said snipers do nothing. I was merely pointing out that some snipers just don't pay attention to their surroundings when I sneak up on them.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.10.30 02:26:00 - [10] - Quote Thanks to this me and my knifing partner have been able to get alot more kills with our knives. Also we figured out that by running in a team with communication we are able to take down alot more people as well. By using a decoy tactic we have been able to both go positive together now for the first time. I do believe that the knifing buddy system is something to look into.

Ra Tri Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.30 04:20:00 - [11] - Quote I experienced the effective first hand....My team was actually attacked by a ninja knifer......it was actually kinda scary, in 4 secs my entire team was wiped out (mind you we were busy fighting off two heavies and 3 assaults. Lucky for me i caught him on my peripheral and as i was running backwards i was able to spray and pray until he died. I believe your on to something and it is definitely something i want to see in my corp in the future.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.30 04:31:00 - [12] - Quote Ra Tri wrote: [...] ....My team was actually attacked by a ninja knifer......it was actually kinda scary, [...] On the next episode of Fear Factor... EDIT Quick question. Was I there a couple of days ago? I recall killing one or two mercs huddled in a pack of 3 other mercs being held down by heavy fire in the Ashland map nearby by one of the objectives. All I did was run around the large container while they were distracted and picked them off one by one. I take it this was your team?
Ra Tri Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.30 06:24:00 - [13] - Quote If you were then killed by the last surviving member of that squad, it was def us lmao. Small world!!!! P.S Nice hustle, you almost had me Lmao! (and you pissed off my squad mates)
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.30 20:47:00 - [14] - Quote Ra Tri wrote: If you were then killed by the last surviving member of that squad, it was def us lmao. Small world!!!! P.S Nice hustle, you almost had me Lmao! (and you pissed off my squad mates) Yeah I was definitely killed by the last dude. Lol I can imagine some of your friends wishing they were killed by a HMG rather than by a butter knife. Hehe
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.10.30 21:13:00 - [15] - Quote A friend of mine while doing some testing was able to come up with a minor fix to unable to run while knife is charged issue. This is only tested with a scout suit, dragonfly to be exact. If you take off running and then jump you will keep your momentum and be able to charge the knives in the air, if you have advanced or prototype knives then you will easily be able to charge the to full while in the air. Then you are now closer with knives charged and are also able to strike while you are in the air as well. Thought this was a pretty cool find and wanted to share it with you guys.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.10.31 03:52:00 - [16] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: A friend of mine while doing some testing was able to come up with a minor fix to unable to run while knife is charged issue. This is only tested with a scout suit, dragonfly to be exact. If you take off running and then jump you will keep your momentum and be able to charge the knives in the air, if you have advanced or prototype knives then you will easily be able to charge the to full while in the air. Then you are now closer with knives charged and are also able to strike while you are in the air as well. Thought this was a pretty cool find and wanted to share it with you guys. This is actually pretty awesome to read about. Once I get back in from my hiatus, the first thing I will do is look into this and see how goes. Also, I like your idea about having a knifing partner. If there is any chance a dedicated ninja knifer can pair up with another one then we are looking into a whole new level of taking a knife to a gun fight.
Ra Tri Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:07:00 - [17] - Quote Saw one of my corp members mow a bunch mercs with his nova knives....
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.12.01 20:46:00 - [18] - Quote Appended the following to the list of tips above. Bait This is based on my recent experience.
Naporo Vorrash Bulldog Mining and Industrial Ltd Rebel Alliance of New Eden 2	Posted - 2012.12.04 00:55:00 - [19] - Quote Being a sniper, when I'm in the hills I have amazing tunnel vision. So I'm sure that's fairly true, for most snipers. However, I don't think "Ninja Knifing" is an effective tactic. Nova Knives seem more like back-up weapons, like when you're outta ammo. I use 'em for that rare hacker that's got his back turned. Also, don't try anything on me. I'm an assault sniper, I've got my trusty SMG at my side.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2012.12.04 05:42:00 - [20] - Quote Naporo Vorrash wrote: Being a sniper, when I'm in the hills I have amazing tunnel vision. So I'm sure that's fairly true, for most snipers. However, I don't think "Ninja Knifing" is an effective tactic. Nova Knives seem more like back-up weapons, like when you're outta ammo. I use 'em for that rare hacker that's got his back turned. Also, don't try anything on me. I'm an assault sniper, I've got my trusty SMG at my side. Your smg is only as good as your situational awareness. I don't normally run out in the open for everyone to see. I try to mask myself as best I could while exploiting the red zone. And unless your suit has good enough ehp, I can one hit kill you and make it look like you were sniped. Funny enough that the red zone is a safe place for me to be in. And I'm not talking about the spawn area. I'm talking about the red zones that can kill me in 20 seconds.

Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 169	Posted - 2013.01.30 09:39:00 - [21] - Quote Newbloods: Learn it. Live it. Love it. ____________ A strong man can do many things, but the strongest knows he can't do everything alone.
Mithridates VI New Eden Research Foundation 161	Posted - 2013.02.09 07:57:00 - [22] - Quote I'm experimenting with a sprinting ninja knifer and having mixed success. I'm hurting a lot more since moving from a skilled alt to my main who is yet to skill into knives but think it'll be the best approach in the long-run. One minute I'm single-handedly killing a heavy, assault and a couple of scouts (I don't expect this to be typical of opponents I can take, they were just bad) and capping an objective... the next ten minutes I'm getting one-shot as soon as I spawn. Getting the hang of this is going to spoil my KDR forever, but that's okay. It's the most fun I've had so far, playing with a number of different builds. I'm probably going to run a logi for SP/WP and then run randoms as a ninja once I've hit the SP cap for the week. ETA: Not actually specific to the knife but in a scout suit with a couple of kinetic catalysers, you can pretty much run circles around everyone, poking them with blades. It's badass.
Warchild Zek IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2013.02.09 12:23:00 - [23] - Quote Yeah snipers can be pretty blind sometimes... I took out a line of 3 with my shotgun once and they didnt react at all. Figured youd get a kick outa this Betamax knife streak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECx3HyZlHYY
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.02.10 16:26:00 - [24] - Quote bump
leafblades Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.02.10 23:46:00 - [25] - Quote Ha, i started off with this style when i joined dust a few weeks ago but i never realized it was so popular until i found this thread, started apparently several months ago? Pro-tip: you can beat someone shooting you open field from 10 yards away if you're fast enough. Takes some practice..
Mithridates VI New Eden Research Foundation 161	Posted - 2013.02.10 23:52:00 - [26] - Quote leafblades wrote: Ha, i started off with this style when i joined dust a few weeks ago but i never realized it was so popular until i found this thread, started apparently several months ago? Pro-tip: you can beat someone shooting you open field from 10 yards away if you're fast enough. Takes some practice.. If you zig-zag asymmetrically towards someone at max sprint, you can close the distance without taking too much damage. If you start sprinting as soon as you're hit, you can often circle around anyone faster than they can accurately turn and then backstab them. WTB backstab bonus.
leafblades Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.02.11 00:14:00 - [27] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: leafblades wrote: Ha, i started off with this style when i joined dust a few weeks ago but i never realized it was so popular until i found this thread, started apparently several months ago? Pro-tip: you can beat someone shooting you open field from 10 yards away if you're fast enough. Takes some practice.. If you zig-zag asymmetrically towards someone at max sprint, you can close the distance without taking too much damage. If you start sprinting as soon as you're hit, you can often circle around anyone faster than they can accurately turn and then backstab them. WTB backstab bonus. I would love it if back-hits mattered for knives. Nothing more tragic than pulling off a surprise nova knife to some assault or heavy in the back to see their armor withstand it and escape alive. Im not even certain headshots matter for us... has anyone been able to confirm they do more damage for knives?
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2013.02.11 01:58:00 - [28] - Quote Nice to see this thread alive and kicking.
Mithridates VI New Eden Research Foundation 161	Posted - 2013.02.11 02:01:00 - [29] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Nice to see this thread alive and kicking. Hey, I've got a bug report thread about being able to swing my knife after death. Have you encountered this and if so could you deal damage? Thought you'd probably be the most likely to have run into anything to do with nova knives.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1590	Posted - 2013.02.11 19:58:00 - [30] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Nice to see this thread alive and kicking. Hey, I've got a bug report thread about being able to swing my knife after death. Have you encountered this and if so could you deal damage? Thought you'd probably be the most likely to have run into anything to do with nova knives. Maybe. If you're talking about mutual kills, then I had a couple of such cases. It seems to be chance based.

Mithridates VI New Eden Research Foundation 161	Posted - 2013.02.11 20:14:00 - [31] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Mithridates VI wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Nice to see this thread alive and kicking. Hey, I've got a bug report thread about being able to swing my knife after death. Have you encountered this and if so could you deal damage? Thought you'd probably be the most likely to have run into anything to do with nova knives. Maybe. If you're talking about mutual kills, then I had a couple of such cases. It seems to be chance based. What I'm experiencing is being well and truly dead, ten seconds into waiting for a medic and then I release the blade I had charged before I died, visibly swinging it at someone. Sometimes I can even charge it again after this. Will experiment more and update the bug thread, rather than hijack this one.


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