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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2012.10.23 07:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
I understand that prices now are fairly arbitrary, but the HMG's are far too expensive. Suits are expensive as well, but I think they are reasonable considering the extra HP/CPU/PG they have. At 38,000 ISK for the advanced HMG, dying more than twice in a match will result in losing ISK. And that is only for the advances HMG so no one give me any of this can't afford to lose it don't use it crap. The middle tier gear should never be something that is too expensive to use on a regular basis. Having to go 15/2 or better every match is a bit unreasonable. I know prices will change, but keep this mind when you start setting material requirements for these things. This is not only for me personally, but the insane ISK cost creates far too wide of a disparity between the AUR gun and the only affordable ISK, which is the basic model.
The various skills, such as upgrade, sharpshooter etc. do no need to be 3x. You have put the SP cap in place making it so much slower to upgrade your gear than any other class. Because the suits are so slow, they really are more a bit more fit dependent than other classes. 2x would seem much more appropriate.
Everything else about the heavy class is fine. No more buffs, no more nerfs...that's what got us in to this mess in the first place. The material requirements (and prices in the beta, it would be awesome if you could reduce those ASAP) and SP multipliers really don't need to be so much more than anyone else since the heavy class really isn't that much better, it's only different. |
xMarauder
Doomheim
139
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah a good heavy fitting costs me about 70 k isk. maybe more now...
It's a good thing I restocked that same fitting 100 times with the mysterious isk I didn't get from an exploit. so I'm good for now. =ƒÿ¥ |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can't judge them by the same standards as assault or logistics loadouts. Heavys are devastating when deployed properly, & even an entirely prototype assault build will have their work cut out vs the most basic Militia heavy w/hmg.
Think of them as being a quarter of the way towards deploying a tank. A sturdy HAV build costs more than you're likely to make in a match, but people still use them because there's more to the game than living match to match. Just like HAVs, heavys face higher sp needs & skillbook prices. Save those adv & proto builds for the times when victory is worth more than the isk reward at the end. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Magic space dollars shouldn't be a requirement to play it. :-) And it's not even just a good fit that's the problem. Anything about basic is unaffordable. Whatever happens on release is fine, but I wish they would change this stuff now so it could at least test it out now. All I can say is yea, the AUR HMG is awesome and that's where all my AUR is going to go and I hope there isn't another reset before I can train those other things since we now have an SP cap.
EDIT: Class...this is why nerfing every freaking thing in the game is never a good idea. It just messes up more things that have to be fixed. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 08:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:You can't judge them by the same standards as assault or logistics loadouts. Heavys are devastating when deployed properly, & even an entirely prototype assault build will have their work cut out vs the most basic Militia heavy w/hmg.
Yes, you can judge them by the same standards actually. Of course they're devastating when deployed properly, so is an AR or snipers so I don't see what you mean. Don't misunderstand and think that I want it to be just as cheap as AR fits because I don't. I'm simply saying that the heavy class relies the most heavily on absorbing damage as opposed to avoiding it, therefor were hit hardest by the overall HP nerf. Because of that some things need to be changed to bring them more in line with other classes. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
172
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
They're releasing another fix shortly that will give more isk rewards. This should most likely help your situation. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2012.10.23 08:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's one way to do it. The skill multiplier is still an issue. But, if one of these two things were fixed it would solve most of the problems I have with heavies. I was simply pointing out that with high cost of gear, plus skill cap, plus high SP costs the heavy class was quickly outpaced in terms of growth and would probably cause a lot of players to possibly abandon the class. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2012.10.23 10:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:You can't judge them by the same standards as assault or logistics loadouts. Heavys are devastating when deployed properly, & even an entirely prototype assault build will have their work cut out vs the most basic Militia heavy w/hmg. Yes, you can judge them by the same standards actually. Of course they're devastating when deployed properly, so is an AR or snipers so I don't see what you mean
A basic AR build doesn't cut down a squad in the hands of an average player.
You honestly think a dropsuit with anti-personnel dps and total hp that far exceed anything of similar price is comparable? Other suits are meant for various tasks, heavys are pure killing machines.
I'm getting a conservative average 3:1 kdr when I use my 10k isk heavy. What you're asking, is that the 60isk heavy I''ll be able to get after the next cap reset, with 20% more hp, & nearly 30% more damage should be cheaper. Sorry but that's just madness. As much as I'd enjoy the slaughter, I'd be constantly awaiting the inevitable nerf.
You say the middle tier gear should be cheap enough for regular use by a reasonably skilled player, and yet that kind of loadout for a vanilla assault build is more than 50k. I don't know where you''re getting your figures
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 11:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
My issue is with the current price of the MH-82 HMG. It's too high. Now, if they increase the ISK rewards at the end of a match that would go a long way to alleviating it. Maybe even make everything OK. I wasn't aware they were going to do that when I made this thread, which was my bad. I'm worried that this game is going to continue to be an AR-fest and was merely pointing out some issue with the way things are. Making the skills 3x instead of 2x is something that I'll just wait to see what happens since the ISK issue might be resolved in a couple hours.
And yes it has more HP but it also slower and larger. The extra HP is offset by the heavies inability to quickly find cover. It absorbs damage instead of avoiding it. That coupled with the insanely long time it takes to rep armor compared to shields equals everything out.
EDIT:
Chunky Munkey wrote:
You say the middle tier gear should be cheap enough for regular use by a reasonably skilled player, and yet that kind of loadout for a vanilla assault build is more than 50k. I don't know where you''re getting your figures
When I said middle tier gear I was referring specifically to the gun. Never said anything about loadouts. Not being able to afford anything other than the basic gun won't be fun for a lot of people and might make them give up. People like new things. |
Darky Kuzarian
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
143
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Posted - 2012.10.23 14:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Agreed heavy cost so much because they SHOULD be walking tank but currently they are NOT what CCP need to do to make the heavy worth while is buff the dropsuit. The Armor & Shield we currently have doesn't justify the amount of isk we pay for each suit in fact all armor suits has the same armor and shield (650 & 100) the only difference is the number of slots which is pointless i won't pay 50k more isk for 1 extar low slot! there should be an increase in armor and shield as we go up grade.
Performance to cost ratio is unbalanced for the heavy class especially the dropsuit they cost too much for there stats and since in the future we will have other ways to get isk they don't need to lowered the cost but buff the dropsuit stats imo. |
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2012.10.23 15:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Darky Kuzarian wrote:Agreed heavy cost so much because they SHOULD be walking tank but currently they are NOT what CCP need to do to make the heavy worth while is buff the dropsuit. The Armor & Shield we currently have doesn't justify the amount of isk we pay for each suit in fact all armor suits has the same armor and shield (650 & 100) the only difference is the number of slots which is pointless i won't pay 50k more isk for 1 extar low slot! there should be an increase in armor and shield as we go up grade.
Performance to cost ratio is unbalanced for the heavy class especially the dropsuit they cost too much for there stats and since in the future we will have other ways to get isk they don't need to lowered the cost but buff the dropsuit stats imo.
It got to be the way it is because they used to be beastly tanks, and armor/shields increased with better suits, but people didn't like it and I dunno, maybe it did throw off the game. While I agree with that you're saying I just really don't want any more nerfs or buffs unless it is 100% necessary. It'd be simpler to cut the cost down and maybe take a look at the heavy weapon skills. That's going to give people less to complain about. |
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