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Transfering Isk to Dust wallets from EvE

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.20 23:43:00 - [1] - Quote Got excited at first since I thought I might be able to afford some new skill books I've been wanting and stop using AUR items when I can already use the superior or equal ISK variant. But oh well. I actually missed all this as it was happening and once I understood what was involved I realized that it would be a very, very bad idea to mess with it. CCP is going to have records of all of this and they are not afraid to take everything away not matter how much it screws some people up. Not saying they will, but they could. Just ask all the Goons and Goon associates that logged in to EVE one day only to find their wallet was suddenly negative.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.20 23:50:00 - [2] - Quote JoshuaEvil666 wrote: i do not see this as an explout or cheat, the isk was transfered using an ingame mechanic , not our fault you over looked this mechanic and did not take action to disable it Exploits generally use in game mechanics.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:23:00 - [3] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: well ive got myself around 30 myrons fully loaded with modules and around 14 gunnlogis also fully loaded. Nothing of that ISk from Sisi was left over. Means ive spend 20 million in around 30 secs. So your wallet should be 20 mil in the red now.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 00:29:00 - [4] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: dude calm down. This feature will be in the game later on. It was just a surpise for us that it actually worked. Words where spread on all big corps and we just tried it out. And it works perfect at the moment. I'm calm. I was warning you that might happen. Dunno if it will, they've done it before. Not to mention the fact that the ISK you were given isn't "real". I mean I know it's a game and no ISK is real, but even within the game money on SISI isn't real and is only used for SISI. SISI is a place where you can get a gun that shoots cows and does like 10k damage or some such nonsense. Can't remember the details. And people thought the cash was gonna be legit?
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 01:54:00 - [5] - Quote @Dias Bailey Without a market there can be no inflation as a consequence of the sudden influx of cash. Prices are set, there is no exchange of goods between players. All ISK currently in DUST is created from thin air at the end of each match. There is no supply and demand. There is no scarcity. There is no economy. Your wallet balance in DUST is nothing more than your score on Pac-man. What has happened here provides no valuable data for study and simply allows certain players to purchase more stuff than others. Not getting in to ethics or morality with you, just pointing out there is nothing to be learned from this at all except for CCP not catching this ahead of time. Each player is completely isolated financially from every other player. PS: Props for working Gaussian in to a post of a video game forum. It's interesting the types on players EVE attracts.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 02:12:00 - [6] - Quote Waruiko DUST wrote: To prevent this from happening again I'd stop seeding things on SISI next time you link the games. EVE players still use SISI, so they can't really stop the mirror. I guess they could have, maybe just didn't think they needed to. I am surprised they didn't catch this, but hindsight is always 20/20.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 03:39:00 - [7] - Quote Dias Bailey wrote: we agree more than you think. the exception may be that i believe there is always information to be gained and analyzed. irl i have a degree in applied mathematics. my focus was in studying how quantify evolutionary processes, via thermodynamic representation. eve, and now dust's group dynamics was a huge influence in determining just how evolution works at a fundamental level. Yea, I see what you are saying. And true, there is always data from any situation. I just meant that markets are dynamic and this is completely static so won't really be useful in the economics of the game. And the distribution of wealth is the same way. But still, there's stuff to be learned for sure. Interesting field of study. I'm assuming applications of entropy and enthalpy? Can't really see the work/heat thing relating to an evolutionary system. But if you've worked zero-point energy in there somehow that would be impressive. If you are using entropy/enthalpy do they represent a level of homogeny? Or am I completely off base? Sounds really interesting, shame I don't think there's any kind of PM function here. Don't want to clog the forums up any more than they are.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 03:44:00 - [8] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: -There is NO Dust economy. We cannot sell. We cannot trade. Therefore, there is no economy. Pretty much this. Technically there's no economy because there is no scarcity. That's kind of a crucial point though, in understanding how this economy is going to be. Not really scarcity in EVE either, but that's something else entirely. But you're right, no scarcity means no trading which means no economy.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 03:52:00 - [9] - Quote Yea, I honestly can't say what I think they should do. I mean it's all speculation anyway, cause I'm not in the driver's seat. They're trying to test out the balance of the game so a certain group of players that are somewhat interrelated having possibly orders of magnitude more funds than everyone else could be a problem testing things out.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 04:24:00 - [10] - Quote Dias Bailey wrote: if we were allowed to keep the isk, you would be able to see the distribution of wealth form over the course of this build. this is insight into a group dynamic. if CCP are concerned about their more casual players, understanding how isk is distributed from the wealthy to the poor is incredibly insightful. currently, there is not much more information to gain on the economics of this build. the unintended behavior is an opportunity to study unintended behavior. Sort of but not really. There's not going to be any real redistribution because when you buy something the money simply vanishes. It's not going to move from the corps that transferred the ISK to anyone else, it just vanishes. That's really the main reason that this could throw off the balance of the game for a bit. It's never going to work itself out. Prices are set, quantities are infinite and nothing trickles down. The only distribution is from CEO to corp member. Everyone else is completely isolated. This could possibly turn out to be a big deal, might turn out to be nothing Be interesting to see what CCP does with this one. BTW, sending whoever it was a mail telling them they CAN transfer ISK from EVE corp to DUST corp wasn't a good way to start.

Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 04:31:00 - [11] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: Saying that SiSi ISK is different because the Eve players are on a test server and not a live one? Really? What do they think we are doing? This game is FAR from live. Yes, this game is live. When I shoot you, you die. When I buy a suit with the rewards from a match the ISK is gone to me forever. That is live. What they meant is that from time to time a mirror is made of your EVE character's skills, wallet, assets etc. When you log on to SISI it is this mirror that is used. If I have a billion ISK on my EVE toon at the time of the mirror I'll have a billion ISK when I log on to SISI. I then transfer that billion ISK to DUST mercs. When I log back in to EVE that billion ISK is still there. Whatever you do on the SISI server, make money from insurance, transfer all your money to DUST corp, lose a super carrier worth 20 billion, none of it is real and does not transfer back to EVE. Your EVE toon won't be any richer, won't be broke and you'll still have that super carrier. That is what they meant by not live. EVE is persistant, there is no save and load feature. Everything happens in real time with the exception of SISI. That's why they didn't want us to do that.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 04:48:00 - [12] - Quote Ohhhh, I see the confusion. They said the SERVER was live, not made from a back up however long ago. When I said the game was live I meant we are playing it on a live server. I see what happened there.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 05:25:00 - [13] - Quote Having a counter is relative. I've gone up against the dropships flown by some of the players that I'm sure were in all this and I'm a bit concerned. Up until now the cost of these things was the best defense against them. Also not sure how much ISK was actually transferred or if most folks truly understand how much ISK might have been transferred. It could be a substantial amount. Numbers like 20 mil were said earlier. No way of knowing if that's BS or not. 20 mil in EVE is pocket change. I'm not sure "spam" really does it justice. I dunno, might not have been that much ISK and might turn out to be nothing. But if the amounts of ISK were numbers like I'm thinking it could be an issue. The ISK was free to them, no risk. So it could be a substantial advantage.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 05:32:00 - [14] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Blunt Smkr wrote: So isk is pretty much pointless now sad cause i actually liked the facted isk had value an i had to watch wat i spent or used so i wouldnt go broke. It kinda makes me not want to play anymore cause the competitive fun is gone cause any scrub can be handed millions of isk now. An sp doesnt matter either cause of the cap. Dust just got really boring no point to grind anymore It is a beta. mistakes and errors happen. Unintended developments are a must. This is something that need testing before getting onto TQ anyway. There will be a grind when the game goes live, while some players will be well funded, or fund themselves through EVE, ISK is not going to be free at all. The only problems here are that not everybody did this, and that Sisi ISK is essentially free. I'm thinking the current prices were done for ease of calculation. I can't imagine suits are going to continue costing 4k ISK and such. Maybe so, but I'm thinking CCP had a plan in place for that and that this is not really going to be useful because the value of ISK is currently so unbalanced. I really can't imagine a tank costing 1 or 2 million ISK. That's not even the cost of a mining laser. You don't think a group of players able to finance 1,000 tanks each right now isn't going to be a problem?
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 06:32:00 - [15] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: But if the amounts of ISK were numbers like I'm thinking it could be an issue. The ISK was free to them, no risk. So it could be a substantial advantage. Trillions were transfered. That is with a "T" Unfortunately those were the numbers I was thinking of. If true, and yea it probably is, then it might very well become an issue to be addressed.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 07:53:00 - [16] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: That is true Zion. I firmly believe that the issue with the voice communications tonight when they brought the servers down is directly related to the "fix" that they probably instituted (I dunno, I'm at work) for the ISK problem. Just they didn't realize that the voice comms were somehow tied to it. Something that many companies run in to, so not a knock on them in any way. Just maybe giving them a hint at what to look at hehe. And yes, I am quite aware they probably have looked at whatever they did pretty much immediately to figure out what in the heck happened. Seems like someone mentioned earlier that characters with huge wallet balances were unstable. Could be an overflow issue, or something similar. I'd wager this isn't all coincidence.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 10:06:00 - [17] - Quote Angrim Khan wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Zion Shad wrote: The part that sucks the most is that this is taking time and man power away from CCP in working on Dust No. They are working on dust. If tonight's instability is in any way or form related to the probably HUGE number of items suddenly being bought from the market, along with an unknown number of players and corps with very large wallets, we found a major bug. They are working on figuring this bug out. So time is not being taken away from DUST. The whole point of a Beta. So ultimately this is a good thing. Imagine if the full release came without this being discovered. The reimbursements and confiscations would be a nightmare for players and the GM's. It's actually going to be intended when the game launches, so it won't be an issue. I've been hearing a lot about this could be a good thing. Not really. This is a situation that will never happen after release. Once the game has an economy stuff like this could provide some insight, but now. Not like this.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 18:15:00 - [18] - Quote Conraire wrote: Knightshade Belladonna wrote: "unintended behavior" "hindering testing of a market" Did aur sales suddenly go to zero for the last 3 days? Doubt it, I've still been spending Aurum like normal to keep my weapons stocked. Blindfire, blastwave, and farsight. Still takes time to build up SP to use the higher level weapons. Maybe part of the reason for the SP cap right there. Maybe not, but it would make pretty good business sense.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.23 06:50:00 - [19] - Quote DUST's wallet and market don't even use decimal places on the prices. Might not seem like a big deal, but that means not only are prices going to change on release but the actual code is going to be reworked. The current system's prices are probably only a tenth of what they will be on release (rewards would be increased as well). All of this is speculation, but it makes sense as it would simplify things in the beta to use small numbers and would also reduce resource requirements. This is all speculation of course, but could explain why people having billions or more in their wallets could cause stability issues within the game and the reason CCP was not ready for it to happen.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.23 09:16:00 - [20] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Like...what? I'm not one to make comments like this, but this is just silly. The difference between a field having decimal places or not in a game like Dust is minute. My brain is full of ****. I was merely pointing out that in EVE ISK is divided in to hundredths just like normal currency. The fact that DUST does not even display decimal places indicated to me that the current code (all that gibberish that makes computer programs work) was not the final version. If the markets are going to be linked they would both need to be the same. Therefor, the current code that is implemented for DUST wallets and whatnot is only a place holder program and might not be able to handle large amounts of currency. That could be why after the ISK transactions the game got a bit glitchy and unstable and why CCP removed the ISK. Not because it wouldn't be fair any more, but because the game could not handle those large amounts of currency.

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