DUST Search - dropships need another apex predator

Governor Odius wrote:

I think we're going about this the wrong way. Instead of asking "How can we make it possible to kill a dropship while it's doing the only thing that could be considered 'evasive actions' allowed by its flight physics?" we should be asking "How can we make it so 'swarm dodging flight' and 'warfighting flight' aren't the same thing?" In other words, let's make it so that flying around at top speed isn't the way for dropships to earn warpoints.

1) Range penalties on the turrets. The turrets need to be there, because that's how a dropship provides support and cover to troops it drops off, but it should lose effectiveness past 15m or so. Reduced damage, reduced accuracy, something.

2) Transport assist points. CCP has mentioned before that they're planning this, or something similar. For those of you not familiar with the idea, they'll have pilots get a portion of warpoints earned by anyone they recently dropped off.

3) Remove the swarm starter suit. As it is now every time a dropship or HAV appears on the field every d-bag grabs his swarm starter suit and goes to town. This is why you rarely see HAVs anymore and dropships are forced to behave the way they do.

What does this change?
You still won't be able to kill a dropship that is moving at max speed around the map. Not with swarms, anyway. But that pilot won't be able to make any money that way anymore. Instead, he or she will be taking position over cap points and supporting troops with rapid transport and acting as a mobile spawn point that shoots missiles. Maybe even fitting a remote rep, who knows? The point is that its role is being changed from "doofy looking AC-130" to "ground support aircraft" like it's supposed to be.
And while it's doing that ground support it's not flying at max speed, and a vigilant AV troop has an opportunity to do damage. Thus avoiding swarms becomes about situational awareness and reflexes, not holding the joystick forward and slightly to the left.

I believe that these three things (one of which CCP has all but stated is coming) are the best way to get the gameplay to where we want.

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Ginxses 6	Posted - 2012.10.19 14:45:00 - [1] - Quote doesn't matter if its fighters, swarms that actually work instead of trailing and being too slow or aa batteries. they just do not have enough counters to their effectiveness. the stuff designed to counter them right now is too low percentage. they are top of the food chain right now.
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.19 14:56:00 - [2] - Quote I think most of my fellow pilots will agree that what dropships need is a complete change in role, not to be nerfed into pointlessness like HAVs. Governor Odius wrote: I think we're going about this the wrong way. Instead of asking "How can we make it possible to kill a dropship while it's doing the only thing that could be considered 'evasive actions' allowed by its flight physics?" we should be asking "How can we make it so 'swarm dodging flight' and 'warfighting flight' aren't the same thing?" In other words, let's make it so that flying around at top speed isn't the way for dropships to earn warpoints. 1) Range penalties on the turrets. The turrets need to be there, because that's how a dropship provides support and cover to troops it drops off, but it should lose effectiveness past 15m or so. Reduced damage, reduced accuracy, something. 2) Transport assist points. CCP has mentioned before that they're planning this, or something similar. For those of you not familiar with the idea, they'll have pilots get a portion of warpoints earned by anyone they recently dropped off. 3) Remove the swarm starter suit. As it is now every time a dropship or HAV appears on the field every d-bag grabs his swarm starter suit and goes to town. This is why you rarely see HAVs anymore and dropships are forced to behave the way they do. What does this change? You still won't be able to kill a dropship that is moving at max speed around the map. Not with swarms, anyway. But that pilot won't be able to make any money that way anymore. Instead, he or she will be taking position over cap points and supporting troops with rapid transport and acting as a mobile spawn point that shoots missiles. Maybe even fitting a remote rep, who knows? The point is that its role is being changed from "doofy looking AC-130" to "ground support aircraft" like it's supposed to be. And while it's doing that ground support it's not flying at max speed, and a vigilant AV troop has an opportunity to do damage. Thus avoiding swarms becomes about situational awareness and reflexes, not holding the joystick forward and slightly to the left. I believe that these three things (one of which CCP has all but stated is coming) are the best way to get the gameplay to where we want.
Ginxses 6	Posted - 2012.10.19 15:04:00 - [3] - Quote i agree with you and i dont want to nerf them. i support more ways 4 pilots to get points. when ur good u r the ultimate support role. i think you should get points for dropping people off and for every minute you have people onboard. swarms needs fixing tho. give them less damage but make em faster with like 100m range. that would balance them. 15m on turrets is too little tho, u see how big those things are?
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.19 15:10:00 - [4] - Quote Swarms trading speed for flight time could be an interesting change, but I'm confident that the changes I recommended would make it unnecessary, if not result in the aformentioned nerfing dropships into pointlessness.
Henrietta Mann ZionTCD Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2012.10.19 20:28:00 - [5] - Quote Are they due to bring target painters into dust? The more painters the easier the swarms hit, also means it takes more than one guy to do the job
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2012.10.19 21:11:00 - [6] - Quote Henrietta Mann wrote: Are they due to bring target painters into dust? The more painters the easier the swarms hit, also means it takes more than one guy to do the job why... WHY CAN I NOT LIKE MORE THAN ONCE?! lol. This is BRILLIANT. we need people with target painters, and LAV's/HAV's with long-range webs. ahh man that would be beautiful! maybe make the Target Painter a gun for logi's, make Logis even more amazing. not only can you rep armor, pick people up, resupply, but you can also slow down the enemy! Oh lawd.
VK deathslaer Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 149	Posted - 2012.10.19 21:22:00 - [7] - Quote there is no equal chance for drop ships other then flying in a circle. Sure we can hot drop in with reppers blazing even then we still burn in a fiery death. Think about it in the DS pilots perspective we have very little options to earn WP, next to none when it comes to shaking Swarms and dodging forgers. If its not fair for you to not get a kill against a DS, think about what we have to go through just to fly the damn things! they're expensive for 1 and 2 we don't have any other counter measures other then slapping on some nano's and activate the afterburner several times.
Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 170	Posted - 2012.10.19 21:35:00 - [8] - Quote Why do people continue to complain about dropships??? They already hit them hard in the new build, it went from flying a feather in a wind tunnel to a brick in water, and the ground troops STILL want them nerfed even more? Guess what, while there are a few ships out there that can support ground forces while dealing with the dozen or so toons who jump on free swarm suits to try to shoot down their ships, most are just flying around in huge circles at top speed doing NOTHING for their team. They're a slight nuisance at best, and yet the ground troops are whining because they can't take one out with a single shot still? These people need to try it themselves and see how hard the whole ordeal is, not to mention that a single loss puts you in the red even in a good victory. The same goes for people complaining about tanks hiding and only coming out to support ground pushes toward objectives before running away again. While far more dangerous, the risk-reward is so unbalanced once you bring a vehicle in that of course their drivers are going to just run away and try to play it safe and tactically. If you're not doing the same on the ground anyway then you're probably not doing it right. This isn't CoD.
Greiskind Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation 28	Posted - 2012.10.20 01:01:00 - [9] - Quote I actually think CCP is getting the risk-reward balance between cost vs power of dropships and HAV just about right. Harder to kill without some good teamwork, but expensive to risk driving/flying around the battlefield killing everything in sight if a "toon swarmer mob" goes after them.
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2012.10.20 10:25:00 - [10] - Quote forge gun does a pretty good job and downing any dropship i would say swarms need a little speed boost as i think at the moment they just a tad to slow

General Stonewall Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2012.10.20 10:57:00 - [11] - Quote i been saying they need nerfing that and fixing the swarmers to actually work properly . at least make it so they can't have speed modules on them to make them faster to outrun swarmers as they currently already do . i refuse to play matches with dropships because its pointless to play them when you got 2-4 dropships flying its stupid and no one even tries to take them down (even the forge gunners ) so why even bother with a match that no one is going to try and take them down something has to be done . i would rather see anything else but dropships on battlefield . the dropships are just plain crazy at the moment . the fact being they are so bad is because most every match i play no one bothers with them and they stupid Missle launchers kill you in one shot every time when in fact it shouldn't be the case should be at least two shots instead of one most of the time unless its a good pilot that knows how to get low to the ground and let the gunners shoot you point blank range then yeah one shot but way up in air mowing people down with one shot every time even behind cover is re****** if you ask me . fix the swarmers and/or nerf the DS or either make them more expensive so everyone in their brother won't be using them as much .


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